tipping cases in Dillon powder drop station (2)

[wogpotter]

Not sure what is happening & still learning the RL550 I just got to update my old faithful RL450b.

When .357 cases come round to the powder charging station about 25% of them are slightly angled (tilted) so they catch the edge of the sliding powder funnel & rip or fold the rim before I can see that something has gone wrong. I only get the problem with the .357, but everything else I load is bottleneck rifle & so the powder funnel is very different.

What have I checked?
shell plate is correctly installed (right side up), yes.
Indexing of the plate, seems good.
Tightness of the center "axle" to prevent the shell holder getting floppy. Its as tight as I can make it.
Innards of the shell plate & column top clean & debris free? Yup.

Any ideas?

[mjes92]

Primer seated to full depth???
Do you have the correct size guide pin installed.

[Vance]

Make sure you have the #2 locator pins installed correctly? Those ensure that the case stays in place for the operation.

[45_auto]

Tightness of the center "axle" to prevent the shell holder getting floppy. Its as tight as I can make it.

Make sure that you don't have it TOO tight so it can't rotate freely.

[wogpotter]

Primer seated to full depth???

Yes it passes the ruler test.

Make sure you have the #2 locator pins installed correctly?

Done & checked. The cases aren't exiting the shell holder (carousel), if anything they're tipping sideways a little.

Make sure that you don't have it TOO tight

Tight enough it rotates easily with 4 cases in place but with a definite firm click detent.

[Vance]

I've never heard of this problem. But I know Dillon would be willing to go through troubleshooting steps with you.. Call them up and ask.

Another thing to check is do you have the correct shell plate installed?
Is this happening with every case? Or with only one of the shell positions? What I mean by that is there are 4 spots on the shell plate for shells, Is it only happening on one of those spots? Could the shell plate possibly be broken in one of those spots?

[wogpotter]

Vance:
Thanks! That's exactly what I did with the usual excellent Dillon service.
Quick summary of the call.

We looked at the problem & it isn't tipping but misalignment!


Slightly different angle:


Shell-plate too loose?
No.

Shell plate to tight?
No.

Is problem limited to a specific shell-plate station?
No.

Ram top& shell-plate dirty?
Nope.

Check dies were locked down under tension (with a raised ram & ammo present)?
Yes.

Check for wear as its an old machine. (lower handle to horizontal & wiggle left-right) slight play is normal but if it's enough to misalign past a reasonable point send it back for a rebuild.
No, slight wiggle but no more than my RL450 which is working fine.

Check positioning at other die stations?
YES! Every station is under-advancing to about the same amount visually.

Sending me an alignment gauge to check that's not the problem.

That is outstanding service on a 20+ year old machine that I wasn't even the original owner of.

[mjes92]

Keep us informed.
Good luck

[wogpotter]

Will do.
I've been reading up on this & found several instances similar to mine. Realigning solved them all so I have great hopes.

[Vance]

Did you at any time recently take it apart for cleaning? If you did, then it will need to be realigned. Dillon will send the alignment tool to you for free so no problems there.

In the pictures, I can clearly see that it is mis-aligned.

[wogpotter]

I haven't taken it apart, but the previous owner might have & as he's passed away I can't ask him.

Dillon is sending me the tool & instructions & I've found several similar cases with an internet search. All of them were solved with an alignment. Strangely I'd never heard of the problem, or the tool & fix until this happened & I've been using the 450 for probably 25 years!

Checking my older RL450 it seems slightly mis-aligned as well, as it occasionally shaves primer cases, so I can check both of them so the new owner of the 450 gets one that is correct!

[wogpotter]

Update:
The tool & instruction sheet arrived & I took a few minutes to check the alignment. Yup, it was off!

The tool is a machined stepped "plug" that fits inside the stage 1 position using a powder die holder. To check alignment you just screw the powder die holder into station 1 & slowly raise the ram. If you're aligned correctly the tip of the tool just slides freely (but with no latitude) into the primer opening in the shell-plate & shell-plate holder, which is the bolted on plate forming the top of the ram. If that fits just so you're done your press is aligned just fine.

If it doesn't then your alignment is off & needs fixing for best performance.

The alignment is a kinda-sorta 2 step process, but very simple to do, it took me about 20 minutes the first time, including removing the primer setup & shell-holder as well as the sizing die & slipping the tool into the holder to prepare for the adjustment & re-assembly afterwards.

What are possible symptoms of needing alignment?
Crescent moon shaped primer shavings in the priming cup.
Pistol cases "catching on the mouth" of the resizing die.
Excessive run out in bullet seating, case necks or both.

If you have those symptoms it might be worth checking with the very helpful guys at Dillon to see if you need an alignment. It gets all the parts of the process dead centered, not just the primer feed & the shell-plate but the ram head & the die stations as well.

[totaldla]

As another poster mentioned, make sure you have the right size locator pin in that station.

For the longest time I didn't realize that there is a difference for a reason. With some cases you can get away with random pins and some you can't.