Secret Service 147gr 38spl. +p+ ???????

squrm · February 17, 2006, 02:06 PM

I bought some winchester 147 grain jhp 38 special +p+ jhp for 15 bux at the last gunshow or so and i was kinda wondering about them. The guy selling them told me a pretty good story bout how they were rare secret service bullets...i'm not sure i believed it but for some mean looking hollowpoints...why not. So i get them and start looking at them and they're the deepest dadgum hollowpoints i've ever seen...and at 147 grain that's more than whats in a 357. I showed it around and nobody's ever seen anything like it and most advise me not to shoot them in my taurus small frame 357...i don't see why it shouldn't shoot some hot 38s but then again, that's some really hot 38s as far as i figure...anyone help?

btw, the back of the bullet is stamped 'wcc +p+ 97'

strange, no?

caz223 · February 17, 2006, 04:29 PM

WCC?
That's a commercial headstamp, from winchester, normally associated with the military.
147 is normally a .355 bullet weight, commonly found in 9mm.....
If it's what I think it is, the accuracy will be dismal.
If you have an inertial bullet puller, pull enough of the bullet out to mic the bearing surface, I bet it mics out at .355
I think somebody's been blowing smoke in your shorts.

Johnny Guest · February 17, 2006, 04:36 PM

Was this ammo in a factory box? Commercial markings or "plain white box" with load information on the endflaps? Can you describe in detail, or, better still, furnish images of the front and end flaps?

Particularly need the product codes. Also, lot numbers which are usually printed on the inside of one end flap.

Best,
Johnny

caz223 · February 17, 2006, 04:38 PM

IIRC (Faintly, from the dark recesses of the moldy cranium.), winchester made some of these 147 grain bullets in .38 special +p+, even back in '97 (The year of the headstamp in question.).
I believe they were LE type bullets, competing with hydra-shocks.
As to their intended use, who knows?
One would think they would mark their *premium* ammo with their flagship markings, winchester, not WCC.
Anybody?

squrm · February 17, 2006, 05:17 PM

Alright, i hope this link works, if not, go look at yahoo photos for 'nailedurmom'

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/nailed.../ph//my_photos

i put the bullets up on there...if not, they are in a winchester box but not like the wallyworld type...instead all black, with the bullet info printed on the sides

q4296 on the upper left of each side, along with 38 special +p+ 147 gr. jhp

warns me on the front about exceeding industry standards.

Ben Shepherd · February 17, 2006, 09:47 PM

White box? Classic winchester label in blackink? Ink "147 gr. 38+p+" kinda purple?

If so I have a bunch of it(couple 1000 round cases). Good stuff. Have chrono'd it out of a 2 1/4" sp101, a 3.5" speed six, and a 7.5" redhawk. GOOD STUFF IME. I will dig the chrono numbers out of my book tonight, and post them tommorow. Accuracy pretty good as well.

squrm · February 17, 2006, 10:13 PM

Mr. Sheppard i believe we have a winner. What's that stuff for anyway? Would you trust it in a taurus small frame 357?

Ben Shepherd · February 20, 2006, 11:04 PM

Sorry about the slow reply!!! Very limited use in your taurus would "maybe" be ok. As in 1-2 cylinders every six months, but no more I'd say.

Haven't dug out the chrono numbers-BUT I WILL!!!!!
Roughly 1000 out of the 3" IIRC, but I'll have to get the exact numbers dug out.

It's labeled "law enforcement only" right?

Ben Shepherd · February 21, 2006, 10:13 PM

Here's the numbers:

Winchester 147gr. hp +p+ for law enforecment only lot #q4296.

2 1/4" sp101:
Ave: 880.3
Es: 51.63

3" speed six:
Ave: 927
Es: 41.1

7.5" Redhawk:
Ave: 1022
Es: 29.26

Sorry for the delay. These were shot consecutively on a 75 degree day at about 4500 ft. elevation. All were 5 shot strings.

February 17, 2006, 02:06 PM	#1
squrm Junior member Join Date: February 15, 2006 Location: Tucson, Az Posts: 86	Secret Service 147gr 38spl. +p+ ??????? I bought some winchester 147 grain jhp 38 special +p+ jhp for 15 bux at the last gunshow or so and i was kinda wondering about them. The guy selling them told me a pretty good story bout how they were rare secret service bullets...i'm not sure i believed it but for some mean looking hollowpoints...why not. So i get them and start looking at them and they're the deepest dadgum hollowpoints i've ever seen...and at 147 grain that's more than whats in a 357. I showed it around and nobody's ever seen anything like it and most advise me not to shoot them in my taurus small frame 357...i don't see why it shouldn't shoot some hot 38s but then again, that's some really hot 38s as far as i figure...anyone help? btw, the back of the bullet is stamped 'wcc +p+ 97' strange, no?

February 17, 2006, 04:29 PM	#2
caz223 Senior Member Join Date: May 15, 2002 Location: Michigan Posts: 1,429	WCC? That's a commercial headstamp, from winchester, normally associated with the military. 147 is normally a .355 bullet weight, commonly found in 9mm..... If it's what I think it is, the accuracy will be dismal. If you have an inertial bullet puller, pull enough of the bullet out to mic the bearing surface, I bet it mics out at .355 I think somebody's been blowing smoke in your shorts. __________________ I'm not just a gun. I'm YOUR gun. (Hold me.)

February 17, 2006, 04:36 PM	#3
Johnny Guest Moderator in Memoriam Join Date: August 28, 1999 Location: North Texas Posts: 4,123	I'm not familiar with the particular load. Was this ammo in a factory box? Commercial markings or "plain white box" with load information on the endflaps? Can you describe in detail, or, better still, furnish images of the front and end flaps? Particularly need the product codes. Also, lot numbers which are usually printed on the inside of one end flap. Best, Johnny

February 17, 2006, 04:38 PM	#4
caz223 Senior Member Join Date: May 15, 2002 Location: Michigan Posts: 1,429	IIRC (Faintly, from the dark recesses of the moldy cranium.), winchester made some of these 147 grain bullets in .38 special +p+, even back in '97 (The year of the headstamp in question.). I believe they were LE type bullets, competing with hydra-shocks. As to their intended use, who knows? One would think they would mark their premium ammo with their flagship markings, winchester, not WCC. Anybody? __________________ I'm not just a gun. I'm YOUR gun. (Hold me.)

February 17, 2006, 09:47 PM	#6
Ben Shepherd Senior Member Join Date: August 11, 2001 Location: Utah Posts: 1,462	White box? Classic winchester label in blackink? Ink "147 gr. 38+p+" kinda purple? If so I have a bunch of it(couple 1000 round cases). Good stuff. Have chrono'd it out of a 2 1/4" sp101, a 3.5" speed six, and a 7.5" redhawk. GOOD STUFF IME. I will dig the chrono numbers out of my book tonight, and post them tommorow. Accuracy pretty good as well. __________________ From my cold dead hands......... NRA certified rifle, pistol and shotgun instructor. Hunter education instructor

February 17, 2006, 05:17 PM	#5
squrm Junior member Join Date: February 15, 2006 Location: Tucson, Az Posts: 86	Alright, i hope this link works, if not, go look at yahoo photos for 'nailedurmom' http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/nailed.../ph//my_photos i put the bullets up on there...if not, they are in a winchester box but not like the wallyworld type...instead all black, with the bullet info printed on the sides q4296 on the upper left of each side, along with 38 special +p+ 147 gr. jhp warns me on the front about exceeding industry standards.

February 17, 2006, 10:13 PM	#7
squrm Junior member Join Date: February 15, 2006 Location: Tucson, Az Posts: 86	Mr. Sheppard i believe we have a winner. What's that stuff for anyway? Would you trust it in a taurus small frame 357?

February 20, 2006, 11:04 PM	#8
Ben Shepherd Senior Member Join Date: August 11, 2001 Location: Utah Posts: 1,462	Sorry about the slow reply!!! Very limited use in your taurus would "maybe" be ok. As in 1-2 cylinders every six months, but no more I'd say. Haven't dug out the chrono numbers-BUT I WILL!!!!! Roughly 1000 out of the 3" IIRC, but I'll have to get the exact numbers dug out. It's labeled "law enforcement only" right? __________________ From my cold dead hands......... NRA certified rifle, pistol and shotgun instructor. Hunter education instructor

February 21, 2006, 10:13 PM	#9
Ben Shepherd Senior Member Join Date: August 11, 2001 Location: Utah Posts: 1,462	Here's the numbers: Winchester 147gr. hp +p+ for law enforecment only lot #q4296. 2 1/4" sp101: Ave: 880.3 Es: 51.63 3" speed six: Ave: 927 Es: 41.1 7.5" Redhawk: Ave: 1022 Es: 29.26 Sorry for the delay. These were shot consecutively on a 75 degree day at about 4500 ft. elevation. All were 5 shot strings. __________________ From my cold dead hands......... NRA certified rifle, pistol and shotgun instructor. Hunter education instructor