Brother Passed - Approach to dispose of small collection??

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by AZAmmo

Pahoo: Thanks, to funny, I already started a "price range" for each gun. When looking at auction listings I see wild variations, like $750 to $1,300 for guns appearing to be virtually identical. So what gives?

Don't look at current bid prices on auctions that are in progress. Look at "reserve not met" listings to see what bids aren't up to what the seller thinks the gun is worth, and look at listings with an initial or opening bid (which to me is functionally the same as setting a reserve). Lastly, look at recent listings for actual sales -- there's no better indication of value than an actual price that a real person paid for a specific firearm.

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by Pahoo

There are times when I give appraisals, for friends and some local auction houses. On private sales, I ask if they intend to keep the firearm or move it.

???

Why? The value is the value, irrespective of whether the owner intends to keep it or sell it. That applies to anything, not just firearms.

When my mother died, the appraiser didn't ask what my brother and I intended to keep. Each item had a value. If one of us chose to buy something from the estate -- the appraised value was the price paid.

[johnwilliamson062]

Why? The value is the value, irrespective of whether the owner intends to keep it or sell it. That applies to anything, not just firearms.

Yes, but a dollar in my pocket today is not worth the same as a dollar in my pocket six months from now.
It isn't a bad idea to get a "what can I sell this on armslist this week for/" price to go along with the "if it sits in a gun store on consignment for 6 months what can I get price."

I have several guns I m thinking of selling. I hate mailing guns I sell. I also don't want to play all the games with no show meets and people showing up to find exactly what was described and still trying to come down 25% As suc, I am considering selling by consignment at a local store. I think that is the best way to get money out without a hassle. It won't be as fast as a short sale online though. May take weeks or even months. No one has to hassle with it during that time though.

[natman]

About online auctions....I've looked at several over the last few weeks and it appears an overwhelming amount of guns never even receive one bid. Seems most people only bid on low risk guns, those that are dirt cheap for that model....but I could be wrong.

A lot of guns never receive one bid because the sellers start at a higher than market price, apparently hoping for someone to come along eventually who just has to have it.

Guns that start at reasonable prices move quickly. You will definitely get a better price from a gun auction site than you will from a dealer. You shouldn't sell to a gun dealer for the same reason you shouldn't sell your car to a car dealer: he is only going to offer you wholesale prices or less. You should only sell to a dealer if you need cash immediately, which doesn't sound like it's the case.

Look at prices for comparable guns with completed auctions and start your auctions somewhat less. Or get your guns appraised at a dealer, then put them up for auction starting at whatever the dealer offers you. Odds are excellent that every one of them will be sold in a week for a good deal more. If you do decide to go to auction, mention it here and I'll be glad to offer some tips.

Best of luck.

[leadcounsel]

You will definitely get a better price from a gun auction site than you will from a dealer.

A gun auction site is going to require significant investment in time and energy in photographing, listing, etc. Also, a person needs to build up a reputation through feedback before someone will spend a lot of money. The "house" always takes a large percent, like 10%. There are shipping and FFL fees to contend with that eat into the costs. Each gun will require a separate packaging, driving to the FFL, paperwork... what a hassle indeed. And then if someone isn't happy, dealing with a return...

I'm saying that for a small collection of really average $500-1000 guns, the effort is not worth starting the auctions.

Much more efficient to do FTF.

[natman]

A gun auction site is going to require significant investment in time and energy in photographing, listing, etc.

The OP has already demonstrated enough skill to take and post a photo and make a listing.

The "house" always takes a large percent, like 10%. There are shipping and FFL fees to contend with that eat into the costs.

Neither of these are really true. Gunbroker, for example, does take a percentage, but it's nowhere near 10%. They use a sliding scale, but the TOP percentage is 5% and that's only on the first $25. Realistically, the fee on a $500 item would be $13.13 or 2.6%. Not unreasonable.

http://www.gunbroker.com/User/Fees.aspx#finalvaluefee

Shipping and FFL fees are paid by the buyer. Return shipping is paid by the buyer. Now I suppose you could argue that they increase the total cost to the buyer and therefore reduce the amount you'll get, but the vastly wider market you'll reach online will more than make up for it. It costs money to reach a wide market.

FTF is cheap, but you have to deal with large cash transactions with the public, which is not without risk. Everything is a trade off.

[AZAmmo]

Hi All! Again, awesome insight.

I took all the guns to a local Phoenix shop/shooting range...should probably not mention company (have 2 locations, been in business 20+ years), it wasn't Cabellas. I did get to see some of our ominous Arizona DPS tax dollars leaving the parking lot (see below image).



In the store, I immediately noticed very few used guns for sale. I felt bad for the counter guy, all his time spent looking in his old book, at the guns, & serial numbers (even though I provided a complete printed spreadsheet of details). He didn't seem very experienced. The highest bid for any gun $400 for the boxed S&W 44 magnum cannon. Most others were around $100 or so. The funniest part, he says at the very end "And if we get all 8 guns I'll throw in an additional $25".

Using the boxed SW 44 Mag as an example, adding "our" theoretical 25% on top of a wholesale price ($400), means I should sell that gun for $500. That would be ludicrous considering many sell for over $1,000. Before any of these appraisals, my gut was thinking $800-850 would be fair for this gun.

I did get a line on a more fair shop in Mesa, talked to the owner, very comprehensive and sharp guy that considered all of the details of our situation. It's a 104 mile round trip so I couldn't make it there this week.

[45_auto]

Sorry about your brother. Wish I was closer to help you out.

If you sign up for a Gunbroker account (free, and you don't have to ever use it), under the "Advanced" tab you get access to the "Completed Auctions" section where you can see what guns are actually selling for.

For example, you'll be able to see that this 29-2, with case, just like yours, was re-listed eleven times with a "buy it now" of $1,110 and no one even bid on it. He finally listed it starting at $.01 (one cent) and it sold at $1,150.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=487089105

Your "gut" feel of $850 or so would be a good price which should sell the gun almost immediately. If you're willing to sit on it longer and put more work into it (list it on national websites, deal with the shipping hassle, etc), you could probably get a few hundred dollars (20%?) more.

I look at a LOT of guns and buy a LOT of guns. I'm not a collector, but an accumulator! General idea below of what would be "good" prices around here for a private sale of a gun in "excellent" to "like new" condition and sell the guns pretty quick. I'd ask about 10% more and let the buyer beat me down so they feel good:

Colt Commander - $700
Ruger .22 - $250
Ruger .357 - $400
S&W .38 - $350
S&W .44 - $850 - one EXACTLY like it (8 3/8 Nickel 29-2 with case, etc,) has been on the local Facebook gun trading site for $900 for about a week now - I've been tempted to buy it to go with my nickel 29-2 6"!

Ruger M77 .270 with scope - $400, depending on scope - again, one EXACTLY like it on the Facebook page a few days ago for $350, but it had a Leupold (expensive) scope on it. It sold within 5 minutes, I would have bought it if I had seen it first.
870 Express - dozens of them in pawn shops for $250 - $300
Romanian .22 Trainer - I have no idea on this one.

Most of the used guns around here are sold on Facebook sites these days. You may want to have some internet savvy young whipper-snapper check out the local gun pages for you if you're not into that kind of thing.

A shop is going to need to make a significant amount on each gun, so their offers will be much lower. Up to you to decide if the hassle of personally selling them is worth the difference in price to you.

Good luck!

[johnwilliamson062]

I am not surprised by their offers and don't find them to be far out of line with normal. None of the shops around me would consider buying that revolver for $800.

The 25% I mentioned was for a near instant sale. If you post that SW revolver on the classifieds here or $500 I am quite certain there will be people willing to meet you wherever over the weekend and purchase it without haggling over price or asking for tons of nice pictures. Five minutes after you post you will get a cal to the effect of "I jumped in my car and I'm driving to the ATM machine. Where do I drive from there."

[Blindstitch]

Many gun shops will give you only 60% of what they're worth because they want to make a profit too. You might try to sell on consignment.

[shaunpain]

Very sorry for your loss.

The prices listed by 45_auto look good to me and I should think that you will sell those pretty quickly. I've used Armslist in the Chicagoland area a few times with great success as a buyer and all local laws were followed, with bill of sales exchanged and done with cash. Another option may be to bundle up some guns together and knock off a couple bucks for a quick sell and the guns gone at once. I've definitely found great deals as a buyer this way and I couldn't get in the car fast enough.

[natman]

Another option may be to bundle up some guns together and knock off a couple bucks for a quick sell and the guns gone at once. I've definitely found great deals as a buyer this way and I couldn't get in the car fast enough.

I'm not sure that's the best way to go from the seller's perspective. I'd want the buyer to be satisfied with the deal he got, not ecstatic.

-------------------------
Consignment was mentioned earlier and is worth exploring further. Consignment would get the guns out of the house quickly if that's a factor. Consignment terms should be laid out in advance in writing. Usually a sliding scale percentage of the final selling price (e.g. 20% under $200, 15% $200-500, 10% over $500) goes to the dealer and the owner gets the rest. You should get a better price selling on consignment because the dealer doesn't have to pay out his money up front. However, it may take a while for the money to come in depending on what the market is like for a particular gun in your area.

Be aware that if you decide to take a gun back out of consignment, you will have to go through a 4473 and background check. This seems unlikely in this particular case.

[Dave Chuppa]

Consignment is the way to go. Find a Shop that you know to be honest. It may take a while to sell but they will be out of the house and in my opinion the best way to get the most money.

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by natman

Shipping and FFL fees are paid by the buyer. Return shipping is paid by the buyer.

BOTH FFL fees?

I have always understood that, for handguns, where most FFLs won't accept an incoming firearm unless it comes from another FFL in the seller's state, the seller pays the FFL on his end and the buyer pays the FFL on the receiving end.

[natman]

BOTH FFL fees?

I have always understood that, for handguns, where most FFLs won't accept an incoming firearm unless it comes from another FFL in the seller's state, the seller pays the FFL on his end and the buyer pays the FFL on the receiving end.

It is not legally required to use an FFL on the shipping end. However, that comes with a couple of caveats: some FFLs make it their policy to require the use of a sending FFL because it makes any possible returns easier.

Also because of UPS's handgun shipping policies and the fact that FFLs can mail handguns while mere mortals can't, it's often cheaper to send a handgun using an FFL because the combination of FFL fee and USPS postage can be less than UPS Next Day shipping.

In any case all shipping and handling fees are usually paid by the buyer.

[AZAmmo]

Just wanted to thank everyone for the insight last year.
I sold all the guns last weekend in less than 3 hours at a gun show. We weren't trying to bleed every last dollar of out of each gun so this was by far the best way to sell the guns - and it was fun!



Last Friday morning I heard a radio ad for "Crossroads of the West Gunshow at the....". I've heard these ads for years, but this show started at 9AM the next morning. I called the company expecting to attend their September show. However, they had a couple tables available for tomorrow's event so I rented one ($120). They could not have been more helpful and provided great insight, like running a security cable through all the gun triggers and holsters (cable - Home Depot $6). I spent the rest of the day and night making signs, price sheets, and polishing all the guns again (it's been 10+ months).

The next morning at the coliseum my table was in a poor location, as expected with last minute booking. The staff let me inspect the only other 2 open tables they had, and allowed me to move to a better location. I was set up by 8AM (see above pic), show opened at 9AM, so I got a chance to mingle and meet some people. I had one buyer (vendor) before the show started, but passed. It didn't make sense to discount a gun before the show even started. The show doors opened at 9AM, I was packing up to head home at 11:40AM, when the last gun was sold.

PRICING:
The price sheets I created and put next to each gun were very helpful to people. They included as much details as possible. About half of the people were unaware there was a "Blue Book" for guns prices. Most didn't know what the percentages were about, which opened up conversations. The book pricing gave them a benchmark if a gun was a good value.


This is what each gun sold for:
($395) Ruger - .357 Magnum Security Six (People said I priced this to low for condition)
($220) Ruger - .22 Mark Standard
($825) Colt- .45 ACP Combat Commander
($430) Smith & Wesson - .38 Special (Model 15-2)
($1,000) Smith & Wesson - .44 Magnum, Model 29-2
($445) Ruger - .270 M77R Mark II Rifle (intense discussion on .270 round, thank you Google on cell phone)
($115) IMC - .22LR M69 Romanian Training Rifle (Packaged with Colt Commander, this rifle had zero interest all morning)
($20) Shanghai Pellet Gun

There's a chance I could have got more money for the guns had I wanted to spend a full 2 days at the show. I just wasn't willing to let a legitimate buyer leave unless we could reach a reasonable price - so yes, I dropped $150 on Colt Commander as one guy walked away...who then turned around and eventually bought the last 2 guns.

I had about 20-25 people stop and really look at the guns, engage in conversation. About a third of the people were "looky lews", many fascinated with the shiny gun in a wood box (44 Mag revolver), another third were in the market and legitimate buyers but I just didn't have exactly what they wanted. The last third, those 7 people bought the 8 guns.

SIGNAGE:
The posterboard sign explained everything upfront for people. However, after a sale I wrote in large marker "SOLD" on the price sheets and taped the sheets to the chairs behind the table. People could easily see that I was selling stuff - something was happening at this table they needed to check out.


THE PEOPLE: THE NICEST I'VE EVER MET!!!
The people I met were some of the nicest on the planet. Some of the vendors provided great insight. Some of the customers passed on great knowledge about specific guns in order to help me sell them. I wish I had $20 for each person who told me the "missing wood handles on the Clint Eastwood gun" was gonna cost $2-300 in value.

One gentleman with his son were with their wives. They bought the .38 Special and now have a few of these same make & model gun so no matter what gun their wives grab, it will be familiar to them (smart thinking). One gentleman runs a non profit for children from broken homes. His location was overrun with cop cars & Black Live Matter protesters last week when that group tried to access and block the Phx freeway. He said the children were terrified as they moved them to a secure part of the building. He bought the Ruger .357 Magnum Security Six, a very nice guy.

The table to my right was a group of veterans who provide homes and apartments to struggling homeless veterans. They take no salary, everything on donations, including furniture. We had some great conversations. It was an honor for me to be the first to donate in the jar.

It was my first gun show. I found a lot of the vendors travel from show to show to make a 2nd income selling various things from hats, stickers, knives, dog training, damn near anything you can think of around the gun culture. Everyone was good people just trying to make an honest living. Since they're a dying breed, I feel guilty in that I should have spent more time at the event to meet more "Real Americans".

THE SECRET SAUCE:
Many people were curious how and why 30-40 year old guns looked so nice, even the .270 Ruger rifle. I used Mothers Billet Metal Polish, a product I've been using for over a decade. It's an amazing product (not the Mag Polish). After you wipe it off you need to wait an hour. Any product not removed turns to a bright white powder. Using a modified paint brush just remove it from any cracks and such. One guy who collects the "Clint Eastwood" 44 Magnums couldn't believe there were no swirl or rotation marks on the cylinder of that nickel gun. He pulled his friend off to the side and made him buy the gun because it was the 6.5" barrel and a rare condition.

[Evan Thomas]

Thanks for coming back and letting us know how it turned out for you, AZAmmo! It sounds like you did pretty well, along with having fun. Nice!

[45_auto]

Thanks for checking back in. Glad to hear that I was pretty close a year ago!

Originally Posted by 45_auto

I'd ask about 10% more and let the buyer beat me down so they feel good:

Ruger .357 - $400
Ruger .22 - $250
Colt Commander - $700
S&W .38 - $350
S&W .44 - $850
Ruger M77 .270 with scope - $400, depending on scope

Originally Posted by AZAmmo

This is what each gun sold for:
($395) Ruger - .357 Magnum Security Six (People said I priced this to low for condition)
($220) Ruger - .22 Mark Standard
($825) Colt- .45 ACP Combat Commander
($430) Smith & Wesson - .38 Special (Model 15-2)
($1,000) Smith & Wesson - .44 Magnum, Model 29-2
($445) Ruger - .270 M77R Mark II Rifle (intense discussion on .270 round, thank you Google on cell phone)

[Oysterboy]

First thing you should do is to get them appraised by a smith. He can assess their conditions and price them accordingly.

That model 29 got me drooling already. I'd make sure you get the true worth of that 44.

[buckhorn_cortez]

First thing you should do is to get them appraised by a smith. He can assess their conditions and price them accordingly.

That model 29 got me drooling already. I'd make sure you get the true worth of that 44.

You, apparently, missed post #41 - he's sold all of the guns at a gun show.

No need to have them appraised or to "get the true worth out of that 44" - they've all been sold.

[AZAmmo]

Oooops, I forgot.

A huge thank you goes to those who provided estimates on the guns last year, especially "45_Auto". His pricing was at the core of what I used to make the price sheets and amazingly accurate with the BBofGuns values.

TWO TYPES OF BUYERS:
One last thing, in the hopes someone down the road finds this thread useful. Having been in sales for 30+ years I've found obviously everyone wants a deal. However, there are two types of buyers. There are those that expect to negotiate, and those that don't know how to negotiate.

As odd as it may seem, some people see a price and believe that to be their final cost. They either don't expect to negotiate, do not want to offend with an offer, or don't know how to start a negotiation. These "polite" type buyers will often just walk away if they see a price that seems unfair. Be prepared that high pricing will cause these type buyers to just walk away.

The buyer of the Colt Combat Commander was a perfect example of this. He didn't like the $975 price. In his mind he was thinking around $800, so rather then try to buy it, he just decided to walk away That's when I said "What about $850 for the Colt". He came back to the table, we talked for awhile and eventually split the difference at $825. He told me why he left, didn't want to insult me with an offer of $800. He ended up buying the two remaining guns.

[kilimanjaro]

It's nice to get an enjoyable day out of dealing with an estate. Congratulations on a good show.

[natman]

However, there are two types of buyers. There are those that expect to negotiate, and those that don't know how to negotiate.

When I worked in a gunshop, the boss hated haggling and wouldn't allow it. I explained to him that for some guys haggling is half the fun and they'd be happier paying $750 for a gun that they talked down from $800 than they would be paying a flat $725.

So he finally allowed 10% wiggle room on the posted price.

Glad you found new homes for all the guns.

[colbad]

At a gun show, if a seller won't haggle he is a Dick! Can just go to any gun shop in town and get a military discount off regular price. Gun shows cost in gas, admission and parking. For a seller not to haggle is insulting and discourages going to the shows.

[Grizz12]

At a gun show, if a seller won't haggle he is a Dick! Can just go to any gun shop in town and get a military discount off regular price. Gun shows cost in gas, admission and parking. For a seller not to haggle is insulting and discourages going to the shows.

Legitimate businesses working at a gun show have to pay for gas, parking, admission, employees, insurance, utilities, to put food on their own tables, etc... which is far more expensive than any expense the customer has to endure for just showing up.