SC loophole in law places CCW holders in same category with criminals carrying guns..

alzika · January 22, 2012, 07:33 AM

Let's examine two scenarios in which one is charged with the exact same crime:

1) A CCW holder leaves his/her handgun on the seat of his/her car and a cop notices it while walking past the car, perhaps (open carry is legal in NC but not in SC; even though this doesn't negate the fact this person was in SC, I thought I'd mention it)
2) Someone is arrested on another charge and during pat-down, a gun is found concealed illegally on them

The charge is called: unlawful carry of a handgun and you can view the law of SECTION 16-23-20 located here: http://www.sled.sc.gov/SCStateGunLaws1.aspx?MenuID=CWP

Dose this seem ridiculous to anyone else? CCW holders would be equated to common criminals found to be carrying a gun concealed and without a permit, for example.

The charge is a misdemeanor and can get you 1 year in jail. Shouldn't there be separate charges for these crimes?

**Frank Ettin** · January 22, 2012, 07:51 AM

This is off topic for Training and Tactics, and belongs in Law and Civil Rights.

**Frank Ettin** · January 22, 2012, 08:23 AM

If a particular act is against the law, such as carrying a gun in a manner not allowed by law, it's the same act whether committed by someone with or without a CCW. So it's the same crime.

Quote:

Originally Posted by alzika

....Dose this seem ridiculous to anyone else? CCW holders would be equated to common criminals found to be carrying a gun concealed and without a permit, for example....

I guess breaking the law makes one a common criminal -- with or without a CCW.

Fishing_Cabin · January 22, 2012, 08:45 AM

Its a good idea to know the laws if you are going to carry a firearm. Just be aware and be careful. I am sure there would be others willing to work toward changing this law at some point if you would like to persue that.

Enjoy the wonderful day!

alzika · January 22, 2012, 09:07 AM

You have a legal right to carry your handgun to and from your place of residence to your vehicle. In the process of glovebox being opened, which required key, handgun was temporarily on seat.

That puts me in the same class as a criminal arrested who is concealing a firearm without a permit? To me that is an EXTREMELY serious crime, far less than what I did (which was legal since I was moving from place of residence to vehicle!!)

Please explain more.

MLeake · January 22, 2012, 10:00 AM

You are changing the story, then, alzika?

In your closed post in T&T, http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=476282 you said the holstered gun was on the car seat, while you slept in the car in front of your apartment at 3am.

Seems like it must have taken you a while to find the glove compartment key...

I don't think there's a law about sleeping in a car, but typically people do that outside their home because a) they locked themselves out, b) they had a domestic argument, or c) they just got back from bar hopping, and didn't quite make it. Other, less common possibilities include diabetic insulin reactions, and narcolepsy.

So what happened to you?

And why would you go to sleep with a gun in plain sight? That goes past Condition White to Condition "Please rob or arrest me."

**Aguila Blanca** · January 22, 2012, 10:01 AM

Well, there's nothing like changing the parameters when your argument doesn't get any support.

Quote:

Originally Posted by alzika

1) A CCW holder leaves his/her handgun on the seat of his/her car and a cop notices it while walking past the car,

That was the original scenario. Now you equate leaving a gun on the seat of a car with

Quote:

Originally Posted by alzika

In the process of glovebox being opened, which required key, handgun was temporarily on seat.

Your original post made no mention of (a) a glovebox, (b) temporarily, or (c) a key. In fact, it specifically stated that the gun was "left" on the seat, not "placed on the seat temporarily."

All in all, I agree with fiddletown. People who break laws are criminals. It's sort of a self-defining term.

alzika · January 22, 2012, 12:15 PM

Thanks. I appreciate the positiveness of the users of this wonderful site who feel that CCW holders should be equated to gangbangers who run around with uzis in their jackets. Same charge.

Lock this thread please and ban my account, as the users are quite rude.

**Frank Ettin** · January 22, 2012, 12:25 PM

The law is what it is. There are ways to lawfully carry and manage a firearm. There are also thing that aren't lawful. First, one needs to conform his conduct to the requirements of the law. Second, if he thinks the law is wrong, he is free to get together with like minded people and try to get the law changed.

Sparks1957 · January 22, 2012, 12:26 PM

Quote:

If a particular act is against the law, such as carrying a gun in a manner not allowed by law, it's the same act whether committed by someone with or without a CCW.

Just to point out fiddletown's observation above, which is the case here as far as I can tell from your story.

You screwed up, then made the mistake of changing your story in the attempt to get people to sympathize with you. Sorry you didn't get the desired results.

**Frank Ettin** · January 22, 2012, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alzika

Lock this thread please and ban my account, as the users are quite rude.

It's not a matter of being rude. It's a matter of not agreeing with you.

Al Norris · January 22, 2012, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alzika

Thanks. I appreciate the positiveness of the users of this wonderful site who feel that CCW holders should be equated to gangbangers who run around with uzis in their jackets. Same charge.

Lock this thread please and ban my account, as the users are quite ****ing rude.

Six months ago, you started a thread that got closed and removed. In that thread, you stated that this occured 2 years ago.

Today, you started the same thread (only now you claim it was just last year that this stuff happened) in Tactics & Training and fiddletown closed it. But not before you started the same thread here in L&CR (but back to the "2 years" ago meme). Fiddletown has closed this one.

For the sake of your demand for drama - wish granted.

January 22, 2012, 07:33 AM	#1
alzika Junior member Join Date: August 24, 2008 Posts: 14	SC loophole in law places CCW holders in same category with criminals carrying guns.. Let's examine two scenarios in which one is charged with the exact same crime: 1) A CCW holder leaves his/her handgun on the seat of his/her car and a cop notices it while walking past the car, perhaps (open carry is legal in NC but not in SC; even though this doesn't negate the fact this person was in SC, I thought I'd mention it) 2) Someone is arrested on another charge and during pat-down, a gun is found concealed illegally on them The charge is called: unlawful carry of a handgun and you can view the law of SECTION 16-23-20 located here: http://www.sled.sc.gov/SCStateGunLaws1.aspx?MenuID=CWP Dose this seem ridiculous to anyone else? CCW holders would be equated to common criminals found to be carrying a gun concealed and without a permit, for example. The charge is a misdemeanor and can get you 1 year in jail. Shouldn't there be separate charges for these crimes?

January 22, 2012, 10:00 AM	#6
MLeake Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 2007 Location: Outside KC, MO Posts: 10,128	You are changing the story, then, alzika? In your closed post in T&T, http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=476282 you said the holstered gun was on the car seat, while you slept in the car in front of your apartment at 3am. Seems like it must have taken you a while to find the glove compartment key... I don't think there's a law about sleeping in a car, but typically people do that outside their home because a) they locked themselves out, b) they had a domestic argument, or c) they just got back from bar hopping, and didn't quite make it. Other, less common possibilities include diabetic insulin reactions, and narcolepsy. So what happened to you? And why would you go to sleep with a gun in plain sight? That goes past Condition White to Condition "Please rob or arrest me." Last edited by MLeake; January 22, 2012 at 10:40 AM. Reason: Added link

January 22, 2012, 12:15 PM	#8
alzika Junior member Join Date: August 24, 2008 Posts: 14	Thanks. I appreciate the positiveness of the users of this wonderful site who feel that CCW holders should be equated to gangbangers who run around with uzis in their jackets. Same charge. Lock this thread please and ban my account, as the users are quite rude. Last edited by Frank Ettin; January 22, 2012 at 12:42 PM. Reason: foul language

January 22, 2012, 07:51 AM	#2
Frank Ettin Staff Join Date: November 23, 2005 Location: California - San Francisco Posts: 9,471	This is off topic for Training and Tactics, and belongs in Law and Civil Rights.

January 22, 2012, 08:45 AM	#4
Fishing_Cabin Senior Member Join Date: February 10, 2010 Posts: 720	Its a good idea to know the laws if you are going to carry a firearm. Just be aware and be careful. I am sure there would be others willing to work toward changing this law at some point if you would like to persue that. Enjoy the wonderful day!

January 22, 2012, 09:07 AM	#5
alzika Junior member Join Date: August 24, 2008 Posts: 14	You have a legal right to carry your handgun to and from your place of residence to your vehicle. In the process of glovebox being opened, which required key, handgun was temporarily on seat. That puts me in the same class as a criminal arrested who is concealing a firearm without a permit? To me that is an EXTREMELY serious crime, far less than what I did (which was legal since I was moving from place of residence to vehicle!!) Please explain more.

January 22, 2012, 12:25 PM	#9
Frank Ettin Staff Join Date: November 23, 2005 Location: California - San Francisco Posts: 9,471	The law is what it is. There are ways to lawfully carry and manage a firearm. There are also thing that aren't lawful. First, one needs to conform his conduct to the requirements of the law. Second, if he thinks the law is wrong, he is free to get together with like minded people and try to get the law changed.