Close Range Bullet Fragmentation - Page 2

AllenJ · February 7, 2013, 01:26 PM

This is a VERY GRAPHIC picture of my oldest son's first deer. He shot it using a Model 700 in 7mm Remington Magnum and handloaded 154 grain Hornady SST. The first shot was to the neck and put the deer down. As my son got to the deer it started getting up so he quickly shot it again in the neck, from a few yards away. What the picture is showing is the entry wound.

Sure Shot Mc Gee · February 7, 2013, 05:22 PM

Wow!! such damage.

Well I guess: better the neck than a back leg no doubt. Curious: How far down its Back Loin did you find bone chips in the meat?

AllenJ · February 7, 2013, 06:20 PM

Quote:

How far down its Back Loin did you find bone chips in the meat?

We got very lucky there, less than 8".

warbirdlover · February 7, 2013, 06:38 PM

I've used a .300 Win Mag deer hunting for over 20+ years and have never had one run. They drop on the spot (lung or neck shot) from 40 yards to over 200 yards. I use cheapo 150 gr Remington CoreLoks or Winchester PowerPoints as they both group really well in my Ruger. All the deer I see shot on tv using those expensive bullets run. I don't think they expand soon enough and just blow through without expending any energy in the animal which (IMHO) is what you want for a quick kill.

The only premium bullet I would ever use are Nosler partitions. The best bullet ever made.

Brian Pfleuger · February 7, 2013, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarBirdLover

All the deer I see shot on tv using those expensive bullets run.

Almost every deer I've ever seen shot runs away, and that's quite a few. At least several dozen.

I can count the ones that were DRT on one hand.

I've seen 75lb button bucks shot square in the chest from 40 yards away with a Savage ML10II smokeless muzzle loader throwing a 300gr bullet at 2,300fps, leaving a fist sized exit hole run 50 yards plus.

I saw a doe shot from just a few feet with a 12ga slug that blew her aorta off her heart, run 150 yards+.

I've seen them shot with 243Win, 7m-08, .30-06, 12ga, 20ga, rifled slugs, sabot slugs, "premium" bullet and standard cup and core bullet, muzzleloaders of all kinds, and who knows what else.

Almost all of them run.

In terms of expanding "soon enough", watch videos like those on Barne's website and tell me how far that bullet penetrates before it expands.

http://www.barnesbullets.com/videos/...V9_640x480.wmv

Sure Shot Mc Gee · February 7, 2013, 08:13 PM

Well if you have to give up a chunk of meat for being too damaged and bloodshot. Surrendering the neck for that purpose is far and away the best place to start. I could see why He wanted that deer to stay put. That's a pretty nice 1st. Buck your Son got there AllenJ.

shootniron · February 7, 2013, 08:52 PM

Quote:

I must have the worst luck with Remington Cor-Lokt,s. Others swear they are great bullets, deep penatrating and hold togeather well.

X 2

I had miserable performance from the Core-Lokt's on 4 of 7 deer that I used them on. The performance was such that I gave them up many years ago. With that said, others seem to have great service from them...IDK.

AllenJ · February 7, 2013, 09:32 PM

Thanks Sure Shot Mc Gee, we were both very excited to say the least

Warbirdlover, have you ever used a Barnes TSX or TTSX? I was a big Partition fan until trying the Barnes and now I'm a converted fanatic. I tried them because I shot an elk a little far back with a 180 grain Partition at less than 200 yards using my 300 Winchester Mag, and the bullet did not exit. I tracked that animal for an entire afternoon before finally catching up to it and I came away thinking how much easier it would have been to track it if there would have been two holes instead of only one. Now don’t get me wrong, I am still a fan of the Partition, but the elk I’ve shot using the Barnes bullets have all had 2 holes, and both were much larger around than the original bullet. I’m very impressed by them.

kilotanker22 · February 8, 2013, 12:46 AM

I don't think your SST fragmented. I used to hunt with a 300 winchester magnum and in 2008 I shot a buck from about 25 yards with a wins heater 150 grain power point. It entered the front shoulder quartering toward me exited the second shoulder and lodged in an iron wood tree behind it. Funny thing is I found two exit wounds but both shoulders were broke and the insides of the deer were mush. Needless to say it was a bang flop.

My point is these bullets are not designed to flat out penetrate. They are designed to give rapid controlled expansion. Expending almost all its energy while giving acceptable penetration. Also I believe that your 30-06 is slow enough plus even if that bullet did frag on impact there is still 165 grains of bullet travelling at whatever your speed is and would likely cause massive trauma and a very quick kill.

Not trying to call you out but I would tend to believe that the shot was not placed correctly. Like I said if that bullet f ragged on impact it dumped 100 percent of its energy into the deer.

Also the SST is a design not so different from the Remington corelokt.

February 7, 2013, 05:22 PM	#27
Sure Shot Mc Gee Senior Member Join Date: January 2, 2012 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,876	Wow!! such damage. Well I guess: better the neck than a back leg no doubt. Curious: How far down its Back Loin did you find bone chips in the meat?

February 7, 2013, 06:38 PM	#29
warbirdlover Senior Member Join Date: December 13, 2009 Location: central Wisconsin Posts: 2,324	I've used a .300 Win Mag deer hunting for over 20+ years and have never had one run. They drop on the spot (lung or neck shot) from 40 yards to over 200 yards. I use cheapo 150 gr Remington CoreLoks or Winchester PowerPoints as they both group really well in my Ruger. All the deer I see shot on tv using those expensive bullets run. I don't think they expand soon enough and just blow through without expending any energy in the animal which (IMHO) is what you want for a quick kill. The only premium bullet I would ever use are Nosler partitions. The best bullet ever made.

February 7, 2013, 08:13 PM	#31
Sure Shot Mc Gee Senior Member Join Date: January 2, 2012 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,876	Well if you have to give up a chunk of meat for being too damaged and bloodshot. Surrendering the neck for that purpose is far and away the best place to start. I could see why He wanted that deer to stay put. That's a pretty nice 1st. Buck your Son got there AllenJ.

February 7, 2013, 09:32 PM	#33
AllenJ Senior Member Join Date: December 11, 2009 Location: Northern California Posts: 1,766	Thanks Sure Shot Mc Gee, we were both very excited to say the least Warbirdlover, have you ever used a Barnes TSX or TTSX? I was a big Partition fan until trying the Barnes and now I'm a converted fanatic. I tried them because I shot an elk a little far back with a 180 grain Partition at less than 200 yards using my 300 Winchester Mag, and the bullet did not exit. I tracked that animal for an entire afternoon before finally catching up to it and I came away thinking how much easier it would have been to track it if there would have been two holes instead of only one. Now don’t get me wrong, I am still a fan of the Partition, but the elk I’ve shot using the Barnes bullets have all had 2 holes, and both were much larger around than the original bullet. I’m very impressed by them.

February 8, 2013, 12:46 AM	#34
kilotanker22 Senior Member Join Date: October 14, 2012 Location: North Central, PA Posts: 2,117	I don't think your SST fragmented. I used to hunt with a 300 winchester magnum and in 2008 I shot a buck from about 25 yards with a wins heater 150 grain power point. It entered the front shoulder quartering toward me exited the second shoulder and lodged in an iron wood tree behind it. Funny thing is I found two exit wounds but both shoulders were broke and the insides of the deer were mush. Needless to say it was a bang flop. My point is these bullets are not designed to flat out penetrate. They are designed to give rapid controlled expansion. Expending almost all its energy while giving acceptable penetration. Also I believe that your 30-06 is slow enough plus even if that bullet did frag on impact there is still 165 grains of bullet travelling at whatever your speed is and would likely cause massive trauma and a very quick kill. Not trying to call you out but I would tend to believe that the shot was not placed correctly. Like I said if that bullet f ragged on impact it dumped 100 percent of its energy into the deer. Also the SST is a design not so different from the Remington corelokt.