M1A Muzzle Brake

RampantAndroid · June 11, 2012, 07:45 PM

Hi all,

I'm considering doing a modification to my M1A:
Replace the front sight with this (I have a 22", so that means removing the existing sight and moving it back) http://www.smithenterprise.com/image...slock01.lg.jpg

Then replace the flash hider with either this:
http://www.smithenterprise.com/image...calcomp.lg.jpg
or this:
http://www.smithenterprise.com/image..._Retail.lg.jpg
Can anyone speak to how much louder my M14 will get with the brake? How much less muzzle rise will I see? Is it worth it? Should I stick with the vortex hider?

Thanks all!

SR420 · June 12, 2012, 06:13 AM

Two questions:
Are you planning to run a DC sound suppressor?
Do you want a brake or a flash hider?

Both muzzle devices linked to are made for the DC suppressor, the first is a comp and the second is a flash hider. Both require relocation of the front sight to the gas lock.

If you are not planning to use a DC suppressor you may want to consider the Brake or flash hider SEI makes that uses a castle nut. They work great and they keep the front sight in the original location.

RampantAndroid · June 12, 2012, 04:55 PM

I'm aware that to use those I need to move the sight back, and frankly I want to move the sight back, less to catch on. I might buy a DC suppressor in the future (or a surefire, dunno) and I think my question was more generically on what people thought of a muzzle brake on an M1A.

Thanks!

JR_Roosa · June 13, 2012, 12:53 AM

It's not much different for you, but shooting matches or at a range it's really nasty for people next to you.

-J.

RampantAndroid · June 13, 2012, 06:01 PM

How much worse? The M1A is usually enough to make people walk over to my lane to see what I've got. Will a muzzle brake make them walk over to my lane to beat me up instead?

I assume by worse you mean the sound, not the flash? How much easier will it be to recover on shots?

JR_Roosa · June 14, 2012, 02:00 AM

Quote:

How much worse? The M1A is usually enough to make people walk over to my lane to see what I've got. Will a muzzle brake make them walk over to my lane to beat me up instead? I assume by worse you mean the sound, not the flash? How much easier will it be to recover on shots?

Never really shot rifles at night, so can't comment on the flash. I'll make a guess that the Smith brake actually dissipates flash pretty well, but that's based on nothing but a guess. I've never shot a rifle with and then without a brake to make a comparison on recoil, but I'd be surprised if it wasn't a substantial difference. My friend's AR-10 has a brake, weighs about 10lb, and feels a little less recoil than my 10lb Garand, but it's a different rifle with a lower barrel and that makes it an apples-to-oranges comparison.

They other shooters won't beat you up, but it's always a nice thing to stay at the end of the line, and maybe stand up a target backer next to your position to deflect a little bit of the sound.

How bad it is depends a little on the design of the range and the style of the brake. Because the brakes are sending muzzle blast to the sides and probably up too, if you're shooting under a roof, the roof will deflect some of the noise back down in addition to the blast from the sides.

I was shooting at the Rio Salado Highpower rifle range (covered positions with a tin roof) with my Garand and a buddy's POF AR-10 (also with a brake). His rifle definitely seemed louder than my Garand from about 10ft to the side, but it's wasn't punishing. Some guy rolled in and set up 20ft away and put a couple of mags though his M1A with a brake and maybe 18" barrel, and it was a little jarring, and it would have been miserable to be right next to him shooting. It was certainly louder than the guys shooting silhouette with .45-70s 40ft down the line. How much of that was barrel length, brake design, ammo, and positioning, I don't know.

I won't shoot at the public range because when the guys set up with their bolt action magnums with a monster muzzle brake two points down, I can't enjoy shooting my target pistol anymore. I just switch over to the CCW gun and work on that instead.

I think that the brakes are fine, and they seem to make the rifles very pleasant to shoot, but it's nice to be aware that you're sending a blast up and down the line and to try to be polite about it when you shoot. I only really noticed this when I saw a guy set up his bolt rifle/brake combo and then put a target backer up to block the noise from the rest of the line a little...class act.

NRA won't let you use a brake in competition:

Quote:

3.16.1 Compensators and Muzzle Brakes - The use of compensators or muzzle brakes is prohibited.

Nor will the CMP:

Quote:

• Vented barrel extensions with the same external dimensions as the M14 flash suppressor, but without the bayonet lug, may be installed. A muzzle brake designed to reduce recoil is not permitted.

These rules are probably there because of the advantage to the shooter from reduced recoil, but I'd be mad if the guy next to me was shooting prone with a brake, and I had to deal with the blast and the dirt.

-J.

SR420 · June 14, 2012, 06:49 AM

Quote:

RampantAndroid I'm aware that to use those I need to move the sight back, and frankly I want to move the sight back, less to catch on.
I might buy a DC suppressor in the future (or a surefire, dunno) and I think my question was more generically on what people thought of a muzzle brake on an M1A.

Thanks!

Understood.

The brake is great for controlling full auto fire, but IMHO it's not a 'must have item' for a semi-auto M1A/M14

My suggestion: 2000V, M14 Direct Connect (DC) Vortex Flash Eliminator and the GLFS of your choice.

My 22" Crazy Horse with a GLFS-H-22

RampantAndroid · June 15, 2012, 08:02 PM

SR420 - do you happen to have a Windtalker suppressor? If so, can you speak to how it affects the zero of the gun? Can you switch between suppressed and unsuppressed while not needing to adjust the scope?

Thanks!

kraigwy · June 15, 2012, 09:31 PM

I never felt the M14/M1A needed a muzzle brake, but the flash hider on the M14/M1A is just that, a flash hider and it does hide the flash.

In sniper school we were shooting the M21, (NM M14) at night with a starlight scope.

When using M118 Match ammo, there is zero detectable flash.

The flash hider works, if you don't care about that then go for it but it defeats the design of the M14/M1A flash hider.

SR420 · June 16, 2012, 06:41 AM

Quote:

RampantAndroid

SR420 - do you happen to have a Windtalker suppressor? If so, can you speak to how it affects the zero of the gun? Can you switch between suppressed and unsuppressed while not needing to adjust the scope?

Thanks!

Yes, I have the older DC suppressor made for SEI by Fisher and it's due for a return trip to SEI for the Windtalker upgrade that includes new baffles and a new end cap. As for changes in POI, I have noticed that the POI changes little (if any) with the suppressor and that my groups tend to tighten up a bit.

RampantAndroid · June 18, 2012, 05:02 PM

kraigwy,

you mean this? http://ugca.org/07jan/nightpvs2.jpg

For the flash, I don't shoot at night so don't care too much about whether there is any.

SR420, thanks for the info - I think I was just quoted $750 for the Windtalker, so it is likely my choice now

**44 AMP** · June 18, 2012, 11:55 PM

Flash Hider vs Flash Suppressor

I don't know if its just sloppy terminology, or if definitions have actually changed. We all know what we are talking about, right?

40 some odd years ago, I was taught the difference between flash hiders and flash suppressors was flash hiders were solid, and cone shaped. Flash suppressors were tubular, and slotted. Both do roughly the same job, but in those days the military was very particular about the difference in terminology.

My experience with a standard M1A (M14) and GI ball ammo at dusk/dark is the flash is very small, hardly bigger than barrel diameter, and only a couple inches long. A huge difference from a carbine length barrel with a plain muzzle (Rem 600) where the flash is around a foot in diameter and even longer in length (seen from the side).

I am curious about the open flash suppressor (vortex?) We abandoned the open prong style on the M16 and went to the closed (birdcage) style, because the open prongs seem to catch on everything, especially stems and twigs. Why go back to it now?

SR420 · June 19, 2012, 06:31 AM

Quote:

44 AMP

I am curious about the open flash suppressor (vortex?) We abandoned the open prong style on the M16 and went to the closed (birdcage) style, because the open prongs seem to catch on everything, especially stems and twigs. Why go back to it now?

1. The Vortex flash eliminator from SEI has been in military use for more than a decade and it works.

2. A a bit of muzzle control mitigates the issue of catching things on the prongs.

SR420 · June 19, 2012, 06:37 AM

Quote:

RampantAndroid

SR420, thanks for the info - I think I was just quoted $750 for the Windtalker, so it is likely my choice now

Good deal!

June 11, 2012, 07:45 PM	#1
RampantAndroid Senior Member Join Date: May 6, 2011 Posts: 231	M1A Muzzle Brake Hi all, I'm considering doing a modification to my M1A: Replace the front sight with this (I have a 22", so that means removing the existing sight and moving it back) http://www.smithenterprise.com/image...slock01.lg.jpg Then replace the flash hider with either this: http://www.smithenterprise.com/image...calcomp.lg.jpg or this: http://www.smithenterprise.com/image..._Retail.lg.jpg Can anyone speak to how much louder my M14 will get with the brake? How much less muzzle rise will I see? Is it worth it? Should I stick with the vortex hider? Thanks all!

June 12, 2012, 06:13 AM	#2
SR420 Senior Member Join Date: May 12, 2005 Location: Georgia, USA Posts: 3,336	Two questions: Are you planning to run a DC sound suppressor? Do you want a brake or a flash hider? Both muzzle devices linked to are made for the DC suppressor, the first is a comp and the second is a flash hider. Both require relocation of the front sight to the gas lock. If you are not planning to use a DC suppressor you may want to consider the Brake or flash hider SEI makes that uses a castle nut. They work great and they keep the front sight in the original location. __________________ The History and Development of the M14 EBR

June 15, 2012, 09:31 PM	#9
kraigwy Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2008 Location: Wyoming Posts: 11,061	I never felt the M14/M1A needed a muzzle brake, but the flash hider on the M14/M1A is just that, a flash hider and it does hide the flash. In sniper school we were shooting the M21, (NM M14) at night with a starlight scope. When using M118 Match ammo, there is zero detectable flash. The flash hider works, if you don't care about that then go for it but it defeats the design of the M14/M1A flash hider. __________________ Kraig Stuart CPT USAR Ret USAMU Sniper School Distinguished Rifle Badge 1071 Last edited by kraigwy; June 16, 2012 at 07:16 AM.

June 18, 2012, 11:55 PM	#12
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,846	Point of order... Flash Hider vs Flash Suppressor I don't know if its just sloppy terminology, or if definitions have actually changed. We all know what we are talking about, right? 40 some odd years ago, I was taught the difference between flash hiders and flash suppressors was flash hiders were solid, and cone shaped. Flash suppressors were tubular, and slotted. Both do roughly the same job, but in those days the military was very particular about the difference in terminology. My experience with a standard M1A (M14) and GI ball ammo at dusk/dark is the flash is very small, hardly bigger than barrel diameter, and only a couple inches long. A huge difference from a carbine length barrel with a plain muzzle (Rem 600) where the flash is around a foot in diameter and even longer in length (seen from the side). I am curious about the open flash suppressor (vortex?) We abandoned the open prong style on the M16 and went to the closed (birdcage) style, because the open prongs seem to catch on everything, especially stems and twigs. Why go back to it now? __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

June 12, 2012, 04:55 PM	#3
RampantAndroid Senior Member Join Date: May 6, 2011 Posts: 231	I'm aware that to use those I need to move the sight back, and frankly I want to move the sight back, less to catch on. I might buy a DC suppressor in the future (or a surefire, dunno) and I think my question was more generically on what people thought of a muzzle brake on an M1A. Thanks!

June 13, 2012, 12:53 AM	#4
JR_Roosa Senior Member Join Date: January 27, 2009 Posts: 130	It's not much different for you, but shooting matches or at a range it's really nasty for people next to you. -J.

June 13, 2012, 06:01 PM	#5
RampantAndroid Senior Member Join Date: May 6, 2011 Posts: 231	How much worse? The M1A is usually enough to make people walk over to my lane to see what I've got. Will a muzzle brake make them walk over to my lane to beat me up instead? I assume by worse you mean the sound, not the flash? How much easier will it be to recover on shots?

June 15, 2012, 08:02 PM	#8
RampantAndroid Senior Member Join Date: May 6, 2011 Posts: 231	SR420 - do you happen to have a Windtalker suppressor? If so, can you speak to how it affects the zero of the gun? Can you switch between suppressed and unsuppressed while not needing to adjust the scope? Thanks!

June 18, 2012, 05:02 PM	#11
RampantAndroid Senior Member Join Date: May 6, 2011 Posts: 231	kraigwy, you mean this? http://ugca.org/07jan/nightpvs2.jpg For the flash, I don't shoot at night so don't care too much about whether there is any. SR420, thanks for the info - I think I was just quoted $750 for the Windtalker, so it is likely my choice now