16" shotgun + rifled barrel = no SBS issues?

BobbyT · May 17, 2009, 09:31 PM

Sorry if it's been covered, but I haven't come across it here. 16" requirement for rifles, 18" for smoothbores. So a 16" rifled shotgun should be fine right? No need to go the SBS route?

That would make things a little less unwieldy for a HD shotgun. Obviously buck wouldn't pattern as well, but if I remember correctly the Box o Truth experiments shots stayed within torso size at 12 yards, so at 10 or less it should do fine.

rkba_net · May 17, 2009, 10:09 PM

A "shotgun" (20ga, 12ga) with a RIFLED barrel less than 18" is a Destructive Device... since it has a bore > 0.5".... now on the other hand if you can find a .410 shotgun with a pistolgrip only and added a RIFLED barrel you would just have a handgun... the problem is I have NEVER seen a rifled .410 barrel.

David Hineline · May 17, 2009, 10:37 PM

Yes it would be a destructive device, unless you can get a sporting purpose exclusion from the ATF like 600 and 700 Nitro express and similar sporting rifles have even though they are over 50caliber bore.

tmd11111 · May 17, 2009, 10:42 PM

Quote:

the problem is I have NEVER seen a rifled .410 barrel.

T/C Contender used to make a 14" .45lc/.410 barrel years ago. It had a rifled choke tube. I guess we could call that close but no cigar....

BobbyT · May 17, 2009, 11:49 PM

Since shotguns are already established as "sporting", why would they be kicked back into the DD category?

I mean, all of the various configurations for the 870 don't need separate exceptions--the 870 and its >.50" barrel is a sporting shotgun.

When you go from a 28" to an 18" barrel, it's the same gun. When you put a rifled slug barrel on it, it's the same gun.

So with a 16" rifled barrel on it, are you guys then saying it becomes an "870 rifle" that hasn't been approved for sporting purposes? (Whereas with a 20-something inch rifled barrel it's still an "870 shotgun"?)

M4Sherman · May 18, 2009, 09:36 AM

Because you are claiming it as a rifle not a shotgun. so therefor you are changing its exemption status.

Magnum Wheel Man · May 18, 2009, 11:13 AM

Thompson Center makes a 16" rifled 45 Colt / 410 barrel with a "straight rifled" screw in choke tube, that screws in for use with the shot shells, & unscrews for use with 45 Colt...

I think it's listed as a rifle barrel for 45 Colt, so it's legal for shotgun use even though it's a 16' Barrel...

this is my Contender...

AFAIK... it's legal with nothing special

Willie Lowman · May 18, 2009, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Sorry if it's been covered, but I haven't come across it here. 16" requirement for rifles, 18" for smoothbores. So a 16" rifled shotgun should be fine right? No need to go the SBS route?

If that was the case, there would be 16" 870s for sale in your local gun store.

BobbyT · May 18, 2009, 09:29 PM

I assumed the rifled barrel would put people off. But I guess there'd still be HD versions selling.

M4Sherman · May 18, 2009, 10:17 PM

to the mate above with the .45 rifle. First AWESOME! Secondly yours is less than .50 so it is not a DD. So it is kinda irrelevant

David Hineline · May 19, 2009, 12:39 AM

Yes if you tried to call the 16" rifled barrel a shotgun, then it would have to be a short barreled shotgun and still subject to NFA so you might as well call it a destructive device.

tmd11111 · May 19, 2009, 03:43 AM

The 14" T/C barrel I was refering to is for the handgun version. A friend had this set up years ago and we tried using it for quail hunting. Needless to say I couldn't hit water if I fell out of a boat with it. Actually we did bag a few birds but you had to take them within the first 10 yrds of flight. Hummmm.....This gives me an idea

and reason to buy a Taurus Judge.

Csspecs · May 19, 2009, 08:13 AM

Sorry no easy way around it. Plus whats 2 inches anyway?

Ridge_Runner_5 · May 19, 2009, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Sorry no easy way around it. Plus whats 2 inches anyway?

About a $250,000 fine and 10 years in the state pen...

Johnny Guest · May 20, 2009, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ridge_Runner_5

About a $250,000 fine and 10 years in the state pen...

I dunno about your state pen in Colorado, RR5. Me, I'd be more concerned with the FEDERAL pen than Texas state prison. The feds have nicer facilities, but there's little chance of early release by them.

Johnny

f6d2o2shb2rywg · May 23, 2009, 01:24 AM

Quote:

A "shotgun" (20ga, 12ga) with a RIFLED barrel less than 18" is a Destructive Device... since it has a bore > 0.5".... now on the other hand if you can find a .410 shotgun with a pistolgrip only and added a RIFLED barrel you would just have a handgun... the problem is I have NEVER seen a rifled .410 barrel.

Barrel length has nothing to do with whether it is considered a DD. And people use rifled slug gun barrels all the time with no legal trouble because they are considered "sporting" by the ATF.

Quote:

Yes it would be a destructive device, unless you can get a sporting purpose exclusion from the ATF like 600 and 700 Nitro express and similar sporting rifles have even though they are over 50caliber bore.

While the ATF's definition of sporting is somewhat arbitrary, they could never get away with claiming that an old double rifle in .600 Nitro Express was anything but.

Consider the .950 JDJ, which has a "sporting use" exemption.

Quote:

Because you are claiming it as a rifle not a shotgun. so therefor you are changing its exemption status.

No. You are making this up.

Bottom line: no need for SBS (or DD) paperwork if it isn't less than 16 inches.

Willie Lowman · May 23, 2009, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Bottom line: no need for SBS (or DD) paperwork if it isn't less than 16 inches.

You really think that if this way around the ATF's definition of "Shotgun" would legally work? If it did Remington or Mossberg or any one of many others would have made one by now!

Show me a production (non NFA) 16" rifled barrel shotgun made by any of the major firearm companies.

It's ok, I'll wait...

...

...

...

Johnny Guest · May 24, 2009, 12:36 AM

If the barrel fits onto a conventional shotgun, it needs to be a minimum of 18 inches long to do without the federal tax stamp. If you doubt this, communicate with your nearest BATFE office. Or wrote to BATFE headquarters in D. C.

There's no sense in arguing the matter here on TFL. If common reasoning isn't enough, then you can get a written ruling from the feds.

CLOSED.

May 17, 2009, 09:31 PM	#1
BobbyT Senior Member Join Date: May 3, 2009 Posts: 266	16" shotgun + rifled barrel = no SBS issues? Sorry if it's been covered, but I haven't come across it here. 16" requirement for rifles, 18" for smoothbores. So a 16" rifled shotgun should be fine right? No need to go the SBS route? That would make things a little less unwieldy for a HD shotgun. Obviously buck wouldn't pattern as well, but if I remember correctly the Box o Truth experiments shots stayed within torso size at 12 yards, so at 10 or less it should do fine.

May 18, 2009, 11:13 AM	#7
Magnum Wheel Man Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2006 Location: Southern Minnesota Posts: 9,333	Thompson Center makes a 16" rifled 45 Colt / 410 barrel with a "straight rifled" screw in choke tube, that screws in for use with the shot shells, & unscrews for use with 45 Colt... I think it's listed as a rifle barrel for 45 Colt, so it's legal for shotgun use even though it's a 16' Barrel... this is my Contender... AFAIK... it's legal with nothing special __________________ In life you either make dust or eat dust...

May 24, 2009, 12:36 AM	#18
Johnny Guest Moderator in Memoriam Join Date: August 28, 1999 Location: North Texas Posts: 4,123	Enough If the barrel fits onto a conventional shotgun, it needs to be a minimum of 18 inches long to do without the federal tax stamp. If you doubt this, communicate with your nearest BATFE office. Or wrote to BATFE headquarters in D. C. There's no sense in arguing the matter here on TFL. If common reasoning isn't enough, then you can get a written ruling from the feds. CLOSED.

May 17, 2009, 10:09 PM	#2
rkba_net Senior Member Join Date: October 26, 2000 Posts: 153	A "shotgun" (20ga, 12ga) with a RIFLED barrel less than 18" is a Destructive Device... since it has a bore > 0.5".... now on the other hand if you can find a .410 shotgun with a pistolgrip only and added a RIFLED barrel you would just have a handgun... the problem is I have NEVER seen a rifled .410 barrel.

May 17, 2009, 10:37 PM	#3
David Hineline Senior Member Join Date: December 23, 1999 Location: South Sioux City, Nebraska Posts: 704	Yes it would be a destructive device, unless you can get a sporting purpose exclusion from the ATF like 600 and 700 Nitro express and similar sporting rifles have even though they are over 50caliber bore.

May 17, 2009, 11:49 PM	#5
BobbyT Senior Member Join Date: May 3, 2009 Posts: 266	Since shotguns are already established as "sporting", why would they be kicked back into the DD category? I mean, all of the various configurations for the 870 don't need separate exceptions--the 870 and its >.50" barrel is a sporting shotgun. When you go from a 28" to an 18" barrel, it's the same gun. When you put a rifled slug barrel on it, it's the same gun. So with a 16" rifled barrel on it, are you guys then saying it becomes an "870 rifle" that hasn't been approved for sporting purposes? (Whereas with a 20-something inch rifled barrel it's still an "870 shotgun"?)

May 18, 2009, 09:36 AM	#6
M4Sherman Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 2009 Posts: 408	Because you are claiming it as a rifle not a shotgun. so therefor you are changing its exemption status.

May 18, 2009, 09:29 PM	#9
BobbyT Senior Member Join Date: May 3, 2009 Posts: 266	I assumed the rifled barrel would put people off. But I guess there'd still be HD versions selling.

May 18, 2009, 10:17 PM	#10
M4Sherman Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 2009 Posts: 408	to the mate above with the .45 rifle. First AWESOME! Secondly yours is less than .50 so it is not a DD. So it is kinda irrelevant

May 19, 2009, 12:39 AM	#11
David Hineline Senior Member Join Date: December 23, 1999 Location: South Sioux City, Nebraska Posts: 704	Yes if you tried to call the 16" rifled barrel a shotgun, then it would have to be a short barreled shotgun and still subject to NFA so you might as well call it a destructive device.

May 19, 2009, 03:43 AM	#12
tmd11111 Junior member Join Date: January 26, 2009 Location: San Angelo, Tx Posts: 275	The 14" T/C barrel I was refering to is for the handgun version. A friend had this set up years ago and we tried using it for quail hunting. Needless to say I couldn't hit water if I fell out of a boat with it. Actually we did bag a few birds but you had to take them within the first 10 yrds of flight. Hummmm.....This gives me an idea and reason to buy a Taurus Judge.

May 19, 2009, 08:13 AM	#13
Csspecs Senior Member Join Date: December 21, 2005 Posts: 1,111	Sorry no easy way around it. Plus whats 2 inches anyway?