Benelli Montefeltro v. Remington 1187

glock glockler · December 4, 2002, 10:54 PM

A fellow shooter told me that the Benelli is a far superior weapon to the Remington, and you guys know that I'm looking for the ultimate autoloading shotgun. What's better, or is this another case of apples and oranges?

If neither of these are the best, what is?

Thanks
GG

beetlefang · December 4, 2002, 11:34 PM

I don't know about 'the best'...

But presently my automatics are a benelli montefeltro 20 gauge (really my sons) and an older 390 beretta 12 gauge. i purchased both new.

On the plus, the action of the benelli is also much easier to open (easy for a youth to load). And, it's very light in weight (easy for a youth to carry). But, it's a recoil operated gun. The beretta is a little heavier gas operated gun. The recoil operation, by it's very nature 'kicks' more. The beretta by its gas operation doesn't kick as much. The remington you describe is gas operated too.

Supposedly the benelli is 'more reliable' under harsh conditions (eg duck hunting) because of few parts and a simplistic recoil operation. It's funny that the duck hunters I know seem to favor this gun for that reason, but then complain about the kick because they shoot all day with the gun...go figure

I wouldn't 'not buy the benelli' because of a little more kick (I know double negative). Break actions let the shooter absorb all of the kick and people have shot them well for years. I'm just trying to make you an informed buyer.

Oh well, my two cents from an anonymous person on the web. I'm not an expert and these are just my experiences and opinions. I'm sure a physicist could tell us how much force was exerted upon ones shoulder after shooting a monteltro at ducks all day...or you could just look at the bruise

I think both are great guns. I'd buy the one that fits the best recognizing that the benelli may leave you a little sore with prolonged shooting (clays, ducks, doves etc) verses a gas operated weapon.

-Beetle

rugerfreak · December 4, 2002, 11:54 PM

I had a Montrofeltro(sp?) 12ga that just absolutely kicked me like a mule----not a bad gun---just a bad fitting stock for me.

I've also had a 11-87(pre light contour) that was heaviest piece of artillery I've ever carried in the field----again not a bad gun---just not a good fit for me----this gun was slow and cumbersome for me to handle.

I've got a recoil operated Beretta(ES100) that seems a good fit for me now. But if I was in the market for a new autoloader---I'd be taking a real hard close look at the Beretta 391----they seem real lively in my hands when I pick them up in the store and the gas operation should cut the kick.

Dave McC · December 5, 2002, 06:19 AM

From here, there's no clearcut choice as best auto. Some are more reliable than other,some are lighter than others, some kick a bit more, etc.

As for these two, the 11-87 gets more mixed reviews than the Benelli stuff. The only complaint I recall about the Benellis is the kick is greater than with a gas auto. OTOH, reliability issues have plagued the 11-87 off and on since it's introduction.

Neither of these would be my first choice. IF I was getting an auto, I'd go with the X2 or the 391 Extrema.

Of these two, I think I'd go with the Italian.

Will Beararms · December 5, 2002, 05:59 PM

Evironment: Flooded timber duck hunting where gun is slung across shoulders via strap as the decoys are set up and picked up, boat is hidden and stragglers are chased in temps from 60F to 30F with butt stock of gun frequently submerged in water.

Duration: Five years of duck hunting.

Findings: Three Benelli Super Black Eagles, One M1 Benelli and One Super 90 Benelli choked The three SBE's choked within the first year due to the recoil mechanism in the butt stock rusting. The M1 spit an extractor after a month and a half of use. The Super 90 spit an extractor after five years of use.

Unless you install the sure cycle in a Benelli, the recoil mechanism in the butt stock will fail if they are used in harsh environments.

Five Remingtion 1187's were watched during this same time frame. Two spit an extractor around the 5,000 to 7,000 round mark that were 3" Magnums. One spit an extractor within the first year. It was the then new 1187 3.5" model.

The Remingtons never hung up--------ever. The Benelli's jammed frequently and had to be cleaned each day to function.

These are the facts. This is what I have witnessed not heard of or read about on the internet. By the way, I have seen two 870 pump Remingtons and one 835 Mossberg Pump jam too in that period.

I have had flawless service from a Browning BPS pump and a Beretta AL 390 but I clean my weapons after each hunt if any shots are taken.

YOU MAKE THE CALL.

Kimber Kid · December 6, 2002, 05:22 AM

Will Beararms, quote, "I have seen two 870 pump Remingtons and one 835 Mossberg Pump jam too in that period.

Oh please, I have never seen an 835 get through a day without jamming. My BPS went back to Browning three times and once for a factory recall.

I've owned 5 or 6 1100s (3 inch) and did have a little problem with one of them, (busted roll pin). You will have a problem with any shotgun is you don't clean them, (gas more than recoil operated).

My SBE has never missed a lick in three years. It is a little lite and I would like to add a pounds to it.

Thanks for the tip on the "sure cycle" would you explain what that is and what it does.

Will Beararms · December 6, 2002, 11:47 AM

No semi auto that is not cleaned frequently or any shotgun will perform in the environment we use them in is a caveat to my previous remarks. All will need to be worked over as well after a few thousand rounds.

The sure cycle is an aftermarket recoil assembly that replaces the mechanism in the butt stock of a Benelli or Beretta as well as with other makes of semi auto shot guns. It is made entirely of Stainless Steel and will not corrode as easily as the factory equipment. Benelli does this on the hybrid gas/recoil M$ shotgun for the US Marines. As you know Beretta owns Benelli, SAKO and Burris Optics. Beretta makes all the barrels for Benelli.

What happens is the butt stock mechanism starts to rust due to the butt stock getting wet and in time a Benelli or Beretta will not cycle. I have seen it happen over and over again.

The Remingtons always spit extractors and the o rings go bad but they can be repaired quickly in the field.

As far as an upland bird gun or blind gun, there is no finer shotgun than the Benelli.However if it does not have a sure cycle for what we do, there are better choices. I have no axes to grind and some day I may own a Benelli---------I like the feel of them. I am just telling you what I have experienced which usually has little weight here unless you have five magazine articles, ten related URL's, LEO experience and a Medal of Valor for military service.

Soon I will have to put a sure cycle in my Beretta.

December 4, 2002, 10:54 PM	#1
glock glockler Senior Member Join Date: April 29, 2000 Location: Portsmouth, NH, USA Posts: 905	Benelli Montefeltro v. Remington 1187 A fellow shooter told me that the Benelli is a far superior weapon to the Remington, and you guys know that I'm looking for the ultimate autoloading shotgun. What's better, or is this another case of apples and oranges? If neither of these are the best, what is? Thanks GG __________________ "It does not take a majority to prevail...but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men." -Samuel Adams "Give me ten Jesuits and I shall conquer the world" -Stalin

December 5, 2002, 05:59 PM	#5
Will Beararms Senior Member Join Date: October 12, 1999 Location: North Texas Posts: 2,834	Evironment: Flooded timber duck hunting where gun is slung across shoulders via strap as the decoys are set up and picked up, boat is hidden and stragglers are chased in temps from 60F to 30F with butt stock of gun frequently submerged in water. Duration: Five years of duck hunting. Findings: Three Benelli Super Black Eagles, One M1 Benelli and One Super 90 Benelli choked The three SBE's choked within the first year due to the recoil mechanism in the butt stock rusting. The M1 spit an extractor after a month and a half of use. The Super 90 spit an extractor after five years of use. Unless you install the sure cycle in a Benelli, the recoil mechanism in the butt stock will fail if they are used in harsh environments. Five Remingtion 1187's were watched during this same time frame. Two spit an extractor around the 5,000 to 7,000 round mark that were 3" Magnums. One spit an extractor within the first year. It was the then new 1187 3.5" model. The Remingtons never hung up--------ever. The Benelli's jammed frequently and had to be cleaned each day to function. These are the facts. This is what I have witnessed not heard of or read about on the internet. By the way, I have seen two 870 pump Remingtons and one 835 Mossberg Pump jam too in that period. I have had flawless service from a Browning BPS pump and a Beretta AL 390 but I clean my weapons after each hunt if any shots are taken. YOU MAKE THE CALL. __________________ "Without a rifle you are nothing, worthless, you are waiting for death, any minute, any second." -- Aron Bielski

December 6, 2002, 11:47 AM	#7
Will Beararms Senior Member Join Date: October 12, 1999 Location: North Texas Posts: 2,834	No semi auto that is not cleaned frequently or any shotgun will perform in the environment we use them in is a caveat to my previous remarks. All will need to be worked over as well after a few thousand rounds. The sure cycle is an aftermarket recoil assembly that replaces the mechanism in the butt stock of a Benelli or Beretta as well as with other makes of semi auto shot guns. It is made entirely of Stainless Steel and will not corrode as easily as the factory equipment. Benelli does this on the hybrid gas/recoil M$ shotgun for the US Marines. As you know Beretta owns Benelli, SAKO and Burris Optics. Beretta makes all the barrels for Benelli. What happens is the butt stock mechanism starts to rust due to the butt stock getting wet and in time a Benelli or Beretta will not cycle. I have seen it happen over and over again. The Remingtons always spit extractors and the o rings go bad but they can be repaired quickly in the field. As far as an upland bird gun or blind gun, there is no finer shotgun than the Benelli.However if it does not have a sure cycle for what we do, there are better choices. I have no axes to grind and some day I may own a Benelli---------I like the feel of them. I am just telling you what I have experienced which usually has little weight here unless you have five magazine articles, ten related URL's, LEO experience and a Medal of Valor for military service. Soon I will have to put a sure cycle in my Beretta. __________________ "Without a rifle you are nothing, worthless, you are waiting for death, any minute, any second." -- Aron Bielski

December 4, 2002, 11:34 PM	#2
beetlefang Member Join Date: October 4, 2002 Posts: 41	I don't know about 'the best'... But presently my automatics are a benelli montefeltro 20 gauge (really my sons) and an older 390 beretta 12 gauge. i purchased both new. On the plus, the action of the benelli is also much easier to open (easy for a youth to load). And, it's very light in weight (easy for a youth to carry). But, it's a recoil operated gun. The beretta is a little heavier gas operated gun. The recoil operation, by it's very nature 'kicks' more. The beretta by its gas operation doesn't kick as much. The remington you describe is gas operated too. Supposedly the benelli is 'more reliable' under harsh conditions (eg duck hunting) because of few parts and a simplistic recoil operation. It's funny that the duck hunters I know seem to favor this gun for that reason, but then complain about the kick because they shoot all day with the gun...go figure I wouldn't 'not buy the benelli' because of a little more kick (I know double negative). Break actions let the shooter absorb all of the kick and people have shot them well for years. I'm just trying to make you an informed buyer. Oh well, my two cents from an anonymous person on the web. I'm not an expert and these are just my experiences and opinions. I'm sure a physicist could tell us how much force was exerted upon ones shoulder after shooting a monteltro at ducks all day...or you could just look at the bruise I think both are great guns. I'd buy the one that fits the best recognizing that the benelli may leave you a little sore with prolonged shooting (clays, ducks, doves etc) verses a gas operated weapon. -Beetle

December 4, 2002, 11:54 PM	#3
rugerfreak Senior Member Join Date: March 26, 2001 Posts: 819	I had a Montrofeltro(sp?) 12ga that just absolutely kicked me like a mule----not a bad gun---just a bad fitting stock for me. I've also had a 11-87(pre light contour) that was heaviest piece of artillery I've ever carried in the field----again not a bad gun---just not a good fit for me----this gun was slow and cumbersome for me to handle. I've got a recoil operated Beretta(ES100) that seems a good fit for me now. But if I was in the market for a new autoloader---I'd be taking a real hard close look at the Beretta 391----they seem real lively in my hands when I pick them up in the store and the gas operation should cut the kick.

December 5, 2002, 06:19 AM	#4
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	From here, there's no clearcut choice as best auto. Some are more reliable than other,some are lighter than others, some kick a bit more, etc. As for these two, the 11-87 gets more mixed reviews than the Benelli stuff. The only complaint I recall about the Benellis is the kick is greater than with a gas auto. OTOH, reliability issues have plagued the 11-87 off and on since it's introduction. Neither of these would be my first choice. IF I was getting an auto, I'd go with the X2 or the 391 Extrema. Of these two, I think I'd go with the Italian.

December 6, 2002, 05:22 AM	#6
Kimber Kid Junior Member Join Date: November 28, 2002 Posts: 12	Will Beararms, quote, "I have seen two 870 pump Remingtons and one 835 Mossberg Pump jam too in that period. Oh please, I have never seen an 835 get through a day without jamming. My BPS went back to Browning three times and once for a factory recall. I've owned 5 or 6 1100s (3 inch) and did have a little problem with one of them, (busted roll pin). You will have a problem with any shotgun is you don't clean them, (gas more than recoil operated). My SBE has never missed a lick in three years. It is a little lite and I would like to add a pounds to it. Thanks for the tip on the "sure cycle" would you explain what that is and what it does.