December 13, 2012, 09:11 AM | #26 |
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I squirrel hunt with 22, so take 357 or 45 in case a deer comes in picture. Only times this has happened, I wasn't carrying either lol. As long as your comfortable with your 357 & not shooting wild, it should take one down.
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December 13, 2012, 10:34 AM | #27 |
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Shortwave, I agree with you. One should know their limitations. My earlier mention has more to do with "should and do". In my 65 yd example, I suspect that the hunter should probably be carrying a rifle versus handgun if they are unwilling to pass on a shot.
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December 13, 2012, 03:12 PM | #28 |
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Hook, my problem with energy is that number is a snap shot the instant before impact. Lighter bullets will lose energy easier than heavy bullets.
Wider bullets will do the same but if the SD is similar then the fatter bullet will retain its velocity better. Yes, the 357 will take a deer but there are better choices out there. |
December 13, 2012, 07:02 PM | #29 | ||
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Quote:
You are correct, many people do not pass. But this is not a reflection on the firearm and it's terminal performance, but the shooter. The question was not "357 vs deer in the hands of an incompetent hunter". I expect a legitimate bow hunter to pass on that trophy buck that is 40 yards outta range, just as I expect the competent Turkey hunter to pass on that Tom that has hung up @ 75 yards. Neither of the weapons held by these hunters is up to the task in front of them. Sure the Bowhunter might arc one in and get a lucky shot, just as the Turkey hunter may get that one flier BB in the head of that Tom. Chances are tho, that they will only wound if they do hit. Does that make their weapons, inadequate for their hunt? The answer is No. Their weapons are very effective when used for the intended purpose and range. Same is true for the .357 and deer. When used within it's parameters, it is just as effective as any other handgun on deer. Deer are not that hard to kill. Quote:
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December 13, 2012, 08:44 PM | #30 | |
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No gripe, Hook
Quote:
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December 14, 2012, 07:54 AM | #31 |
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well then heres a slight rephrase, if the 180 grain bullet from a 8 inch barreled 357 magnum revolver is not enough for a humane kill on a deer, and its too much for a 150 pound crack head thats trying to rape you at 5 am, then
what is it for? |
December 14, 2012, 09:25 AM | #32 | |
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Quote:
I'll use myself as a good example. I have a 4" Model 28 357 I've carried in LE for 20 years. I got it in '74 and still shoot the crap out of it. I shoot in excess of 2000 rounds a year with this revolver. I do competition, and its Heck on bowling pins. I shoot it fairly well. I can get it on target and stay on target fairly well. Now I also have a very nice 6" Model 29 44 Mag. I shoot it some, but not much. I'm not use to the recoil, and I'm slow(er) getting on target and getting back on target with this revolver. Frankly I can't shoot it near as well as my Model 28. Now really, which gun would be "More Responsible" for hunting deer. I don't hunt with pistols/revolvers but I have killed some pretty hefty critters (I'm the retired LE Officer who shot moose in Alaska the OP was talking about). But if I was I'd take the revolver I'm most comfortable with and I shoot the best even if its only a 357 instead of a 44. I believe I could make more humane kills with that revolver. Its not the size of the gun, its the largest gun you can shoot well. I don't think I could handle, lets say, a 500 S&W well enough to responsibly hunt deer.
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December 14, 2012, 10:10 PM | #33 |
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Closely related question:
What 180 grain or heavier 357 ammo would you use for a shoulder shot on a deer? |
December 15, 2012, 12:47 AM | #34 |
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i did some load data investigations today and had a nice little revelation.
the 357 with a 180 grain bullet is supposed to be knocking on the door step of 760 foot pounds. now if we consider the minimum .40 caliber bullet weighing a min 200 grians at a minimu 1000 fps the 44 RUSSIAN can do that. i can find load data for a 5 inch barrel that hits 9-950 fps with a 200 grain swc. give it an 8 inch barrel and youwill hit 1000 fps. is that going to be mroe energy? |
December 15, 2012, 01:58 AM | #35 |
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357 was THE big game hunting cartridge for years. They were shooting moose with the 357. Its more then enough for deer but when it comes to taking game ethically I'm a proponent of bigger being better and making a single well placed shot. I'm horrified by some of the shots i see taken even on hunting shows. Really depends on range and where you are shooting deer.
The same guy will tell ya 9mil is fine for a 300lb man but not enough for a 120lb deer. I will tell ya shot placement matters in hunting way more then it does in self defense. What matters is your comfort level. Many deer have been harvested ethically with a 357mag though. |
December 15, 2012, 07:08 AM | #36 |
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Just a couple of links to some interesting reading that I think goes along with the subject. I'm sure these wont be any great mind changers and I also enjoy my 44's and 45's as well. I have not taken a shot with a 357 that was regretted but then again I only shoot handguns at bow hunting distances in the field no matter what the caliber.
http://www.darkcanyon.net/MyFriend_The357.htm http://www.sixguns.com/range/fa353.htm Last edited by rep1954; December 15, 2012 at 07:14 AM. |
December 15, 2012, 07:38 AM | #37 |
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Shot a four point muley 36 years ago using a 150gr. cast rcbs swc over 5 grs. of unique in a .38 case out of a SAA Colt. Ten years later I killed a forked horn with a forgotten handload using a 140gr jacketed hollow point out of a 4" model 66 at 120 paces. Recovered bullet from a downed tree trunk, the jhp showed no expansion. Jason is right, bullet placement is very important.
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December 15, 2012, 08:02 AM | #38 |
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If anything, the 357mag has gotten MORE effective as hunting handgun due to modern bullets. This is also true with the 44mag, etc.... A reliable expanding bullet that doesn't require as much speed, is now a factor making all handguns a much more efficient hunter. Bonded bullets also make the hollow point better. Cast bullets that simply poke holes and penitrate do not transfer energy and are less attractive these days for deer hunting.
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December 15, 2012, 04:26 PM | #39 |
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Kind of a shame, really....
pity the sad plight of the .357 Magnum. Once king of the hill, and now barely mousefarts...or so some would have you believe.
Funny how for well over half a century the .357 was thought of as a good cartridge for deer, but it took the Internet to tell the world this just wasn't so! It must be true, it's on the Internet! Hardcast SWC bullets don't expand, but they do work. The original .357 loadings delivered 1550fps from the long barrel, and were still more than quite respectable performers from the common 6" tubes. But you can't get those today. Nobody loads them! Why? because the .357 has been downloaded for quite some time, so people can shoot it in their medium and tiny frame guns without beating them to death. Because of this the magnum is merely a shadow of what it once was. Add in the huge use of the .357 for police and self protection use, and finding good loads, with both full power and PROPER bullet construction for deer hunting is tough. I understand some of the smaller specialty makers produce it, but it seems to be both costly and rare. As far as I can tell, deer are not tougher these days than they were back in the pre WWII era. No round is a magic death ray, and EVERYTHING fails from time to time, even magnum rifles. Choosing the right construction of bullet for the game you are shooting is very important, and equally important is putting the bullet where it needs to go. Anti-personal JHPs don't perform well if you drive them through heavy bone. And that isn't the fault of the bullet or the cartridge. It's the fault of the shooter! Don't tell me that the .357 is too weak, or its only good for neck shots, its not. IT may work best with neck shots, but then, so does a .243. Funny how we never seemed to need 180gr bullets or a minimum of .44 Mag for deer before the Internet came along and told us so. Oddly enough, deer can't read!
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December 15, 2012, 05:06 PM | #40 |
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"I've taken several deer with .357s. All were shot only once in the chest and none went more than 40 yards. I consider a .357 the same as a bow. Quality shots taken @ 40 yards or less into the boiler room. I recommend using JSPs, XTP-FPs or hard cast bullets of 158 gr or more and leave the HPs for varmints, SD and the range. With deer you want a hole on both sides. Very few HPs designed for .357 will give you the penetration needed for that, especially if you hit shoulder bone. The .357 is plenty of gun for the job, but you must do your part too. While bigger calibers give you more range and maybe more margin for error, hunting deer with a .357 is no harder than bow hunting. If you can't close the distance needed for a effective shot, you have to pass. If the shot doesn't present itself, you must pass. Not hard to do if one knows his limitations and respects his quarry". AS QUOTED ABOVE.
Great advice. Saved me a lot of typing. I've shot over 50 whitetails with the 357 and have never lost even one. I lost one whitetail with a 44mag due to making a bad shot. It will do everything you need it to do but gut shooting, ham shooting, and leg shooting (you get the idea) won't kill anything. I've seen a lot of poorly shot animals with very big calibers that didn't die. A guy just shot a bear near here that had seven old wounds in it. Nothing kills better than shooting ability and that seems to be in short supply. |
December 15, 2012, 05:21 PM | #41 |
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What's the street cost of a S&W 686SSR or 627??? I have a hole in my collectin for a 4ish" carry piece.
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December 15, 2012, 07:29 PM | #42 |
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.357 Mag Is Awesome
pity the sad plight of the .357 Magnum. Once king of the hill, and now barely mousefarts...or so some would have you believe. I take no pity on my Ruger SP 101, Pity the person that cause's me to draw it ! As far to say that the .357 is dead and gone, Win 94E 357 I have is still hitting the mark @ 200yrds with a 125grn Sierra, Now if that ain't shoot*N than what is.
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December 15, 2012, 08:34 PM | #43 |
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I'm not form Missouri, but I'd have to see your 45 LC load blow through an
8" pine tree. Evidently Alabama pine trees are not as stout as the ones we grow here in SC. |
December 15, 2012, 09:13 PM | #44 |
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Maybe a little of subject but I think not..
Many ELEPHANTS killed w/ 280 and 303's--hundreds.. |
December 15, 2012, 10:20 PM | #45 |
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Sigh, when I was knee high to a little burp the .357 magnum was considered a wrist busting proposition for the average man and an experts gun. By the time I was old enough to get one the 44 mag had that title but was becoming more popular. I used my little .357 for years taking shots at 115 yards without hesitation because it was a good shot ans passing on shots at 40 yards because it was an iffy shot. No reflection on the gun but on me.
SJSP and LSWC both in 158 gr because that is what shoots to point of aim beyond 50 yards for me. I used to be able to hold all my shots shooting offhand on a NRA 50 yard pistol target at 100 yards, now I have to sit and rest the gun and stare at the sights for a little bit before I squeeze that trigger but I still keep them on the target. How much giddyup go at that range it still has I don't know but enough to kill deer and that's all I cared about. Near 70 now and I still shoot an average of 60 rounds a month out of that gun, sometimes 38's sometimes magnums. 125 gr for the close targets and 158 gr bullets to be used for targets a little further out there. I'm no Kieth or Cooper and certainly no national champion but good enough I can put meat in the freezer without feeling like I'm doing something wrong by being under gunned. I think most complaints come from people who are great at 7 yards and good from the bench at 25 yards but fail when they have to shoot from their hind legs at a 40 yard deer in the woods because they didn't practice that kind of shot. Trigger time boys and girls, trigger time at targets beyond a 12 step walk. Nothing wrong with the .357 it's the man using the .357 that is the weak link.
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December 16, 2012, 12:38 AM | #46 |
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I have an NEF Handi Rifle in .357 mag with a 22 inch barrel. Would either of these two loads be adequate for deer out to about 75 yards? The one on the left is a Blazer Brass 158 grain JHP. The one on the left is an American Eagle .357 magnum High Velocity 158 grain JSP.
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December 16, 2012, 07:54 AM | #47 | |
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December 16, 2012, 11:48 AM | #48 |
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Skill vs. firepower?
I think skill will go a long way to compensate for lack of firepower. But I dont think it works the other way around.
.357 can be a lot of power. |
December 16, 2012, 12:14 PM | #49 | |
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December 16, 2012, 03:50 PM | #50 |
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357 and whitetail deer - sample of one
I have taken a 4 pt buck with a .357 (180 grain Federal) at 25 yards with a 4 5/8" Ruger Blackhawk. It was a solid chest shot and I did not have to track. 10 yards or so and down. Having done it, i recognize my luck (and my own limitation shooting from a stand). Looking back, I would definately try it again with the same load (since it worked), but I choose not take a shot past the 25 yard range. My view...my 2 cents. Best of luck to you. DB
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