Short barrel AR in NY?

[RyanJ]

Need a little help here guys. As we all know about wonderful NY gun laws, no one seems to know about owning an AR-15 with a barrel length less then 16". I have asked the County Clerk, local gun shops, my buddies at the Sherrif's Department, and a few State Troopers. All had different answers, but basically said that it probably would have to be on my pistol permit. BUT, doesn't NY stipulate that you can only have a gun with less then the 5 no-no's and the AR's don't fit?
I am looking to buy a 11.5" barrel and mount it on one of my AR's but before I buy it, I need to know the right way of going about it and making it legal.
Any help would be great.
Thanks,
Ryan

[kx592]

Im not positive but i believe you have to fill out form for ATF or something along those lines. A few people here have 14.5 barrels and such and i remember something about extra paperwork if even allowed in NY

[Brian Pfleuger]

Well, you would DEFINITELY have to file the paperwork with the ATF and pay the $200 tax. The ATF would consider any weapon with a barrel length under 16" and a rifle stock to be a "Short Barreled Rifle".



Hang on.... I'll try to find the law...


Ok.... here it is....

A semiautomatic rifle that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least two of the following characteristics:

a folding or telescoping stock
a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the actionof the weapon
a bayonet mount
a flash suppressor or threaded barrel designed to accommodate a flash suppressor
a grenade launcher
A semiautomatic shotgun that has at least two of the following characteristics
a folding or telescoping stock
a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon
a fixed magazine capacity in excess of five rounds
an ability to accept a detachable magazine
A semiautomatic pistol that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least two of the following characteristics
an ammunition magazine that attaches to the pistol outside of the pistol grip
a threaded barrel capable of accepting a barrel extender, flash suppressor, forward handgrip, or silencer
shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel and that permits the shooter to hold the firearm with the nontrigger hand without being burned
manufactured weight of fifty ounces or more when the pistol is unloaded
A semiautomatic version of an automatic rifle, shotgun or firearm
Any of the weapons, or functioning frames or receivers of such weapons, or copies or duplicates of such weapons, in any caliber, known as:
Norinco, Mitchell, and Poly Technologies Avtomat Kalashnikovs (All Models)
Action Arms Israeli Military Industries UZI and Galil
Beretta Ar70 (SC-70)
Colt AR-15
Fabrique National FN/FAL, FN/LAR, and FNC
SWD M-10, M-11, M-11/9, and M-12
Steyr AUG
INTRATEC TEC-9, TEC-DC9 and TEC-22
revolving cylinder shotguns, such as (or similar to) the Street Sweeper and Striker



Looks to be illegal, so far as I can tell.

[RyanJ]

To Peetza, thanks for the summary at the bottom, I was about to call my attorney to try and figure out what it meant. HA HA
Thanks for the help.
Guess I just can't get one. Oh, well.
Time to start looking in PA for a new house. LOL

[rwilson452]

Ah , but you would be welcome in PA and find the laws there entirely different but mostly missing for what you expect in NYS. We are constantly re-educating refugees from NYS to the gun freedoms PA.

To Peetza, thanks for the summary at the bottom, I was about to call my attorney to try and figure out what it meant. HA HA
Thanks for the help.
Guess I just can't get one. Oh, well.
Time to start looking in PA for a new house. LOL

__________________

[Aguila Blanca]

Even in PA you would still be creating a short-barreled rifle and you would still be in violation of Federal law. To possess an AR-15 with a barrel shorter than 16 inches, the receiver must never have been built as a rifle. If the receiver was originally manufactured as an AR pistol, or if you have a bare receiver that was declared either as a pistol or as a bare receiver when purchased, then you can build a pistol. If you are thinking of swapping a short barrel onto an AR-15 rifle you already own -- don't do it.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...1033020AAOqWVf

http://www.quarterbore.com/nfa/sbr-aow-pistol.html

[RyanJ]

I checked with one of the gun shops in PA that I buy from and he told me that it's legal in PA as long as it's registered as a pistol. It can not be registered as a rife. But still, NY law is much different, and it's I think not allowed. I have a bullseye match tomorrow night and one of the guys there is a huge AR competitor and I'm gonna see what he says. (I'll post a reply on his answers).
Thanks for the help guys.

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by RyanJ

I checked with one of the gun shops in PA that I buy from and he told me that it's legal in PA as long as it's registered as a pistol. It can not be registered as a rife. But still, NY law is much different, and it's I think not allowed. I have a bullseye match tomorrow night and one of the guys there is a huge AR competitor and I'm gonna see what he says. (I'll post a reply on his answers).

Yes, it is legal if it is registered as a pistol.

A NEW AR pistol would be registered as a pistol. A NEW bare receiver, that has never been assembled as a rifle, could be registered from the git-go as a pistol, and subsequently assembled as a pistol.

Your original post said you are considering buying an 11.5" upper and putting on one of your ARs. I read that to mean on an AR that is currently a rifle. When you do that, you are not creating a pistol ... you are creating a short barreled rifle.

Yes, I know that there is no logical, physical or functional difference, but I didn't write the laws. To do what you are asking to do, you will be creating a short barreled rifle. You will have to get the $200 tax stamp, and to get that you will need a sign-off from your local chief of police.

[RyanJ]

To Aguila, OK, thanks. I didn't think that NY had a "difference" between rifle/pistol, and rifle/short barrel. (meaning that I thought once you were below the 16" length, it was considered a pistol). I will look into that.
What I forgot to mention about PA. I ordered a custom built lower from a company and wanted to use my buddies FFL in PA to take delivery of it. When I asked him about it, he told me that any lower that was not complete with an upper upon sale, in PA, had to be sold as a pistol. (understandable, the state doesn't know what someone is going to do with it). BUT, being a NY resident, I can not buy a pistol in PA and bring it into NY.
Hope that makes my previous thread explainable.
Now, who do I go to for the paper work on doing this? Can the local gun shop do it? And I'd imagine that I have to have the serial number from the barrel for the paper work right?
Thanks again.

And to all you PA guys, as much as I'd love to move, I can't. So don't worry about another NY'er crossing the border. HA HA HA. As we say here in NY, born free and taxed to death!

[Aguila Blanca]

Ryan, barrels don't have serial numbers. AR-15 uppers don't have serial numbers. Receivers have serial numbers.

I have no idea what NY State thinks about short-barreled rifles. Federal law makes that distinction, and any FFL should be able to explain that to you if you clearly explain to them what you are trying to do.

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/guides/i...barreled-rifle

[mete]

Evan if it could be legal [I doubt it] it's probably not worth the effort. Easier for you to move 5 miles and be in PA .Or you could just get a bolt action 223 like I have and be perfectly legal. There are weird people here in Sullivan Co !!

[RyanJ]

OK. Can't have a shorter barrel of 16" on anything (unless it's a pistol). BUT the Carbon (AR) 15 is legal in NY. Go figure. Only because it falls within the guidelines of NY's regulations, no handgrip foward of the barrel, no stock, etc.
Thanks for the help guys.
On Monday I will be ordering my 16" barrel, and dream of someday having my own little island somewhere where I can have all the short barrel guns I desire.

Ryan

[RyanJ]

Hey Mete, your in Sullivan County? Yeah there are some weird people around here, some of the locals and some of the imports. LOL

[blume357]

but don't hold me to it... and it's not that expensive in the long run....

first is form a corporation..

2nd is get a license to manufacture machine guns and other destructive devices from the Feds...

getting incorporated cost more than the license.... then you can not only own and create any full auto and select fire weapons you want... you can transport them anywhere too... with out prior permission of BAFTE

[mete]

Ryan, just 5 miles south of you , as far south as possible without being in PA !

[RyanJ]

To Blume357, I made the mistake of starting my own business three years ago, between taxes and insurance, oh yeah the accountant and attorney I would have been better off going to Home Depot for a job.
But your idea doesn't sound all that bad, at least I would have something rewarding to do with my business.
To Mete, oh boy, small world. If you ever want to get together and put some lead down range, let me know. I shoot Bullseye matches on Friday nights, and during the warmer months shoot high power F class rifle matches.
Thanks again for all the help from everyone.
Ryan

[blume357]

I'm one of those folks who works for themselves and does not even have an accountant. I can add and subtract pretty good once a year (April 15th).... and have no need to pay others ....

I have a buddy down in Florida who a bonafied gun nut...he makes me and my collection look like a liberal pacifist....

A few years back he got tired of the limits placed on him with his class three license.... he kept blaming the 1986 cut off date on Clinton and I finally got him to look it up and he discovered it was actually the Conservative God Ronald Reagan who enacted this...

His solution to getting the full auto weapons he wants was to become a manufacturer.

[RyanJ]

To Blume, Thanks for the info. Does that apply for NY as well? I am seriously going to look into that, but I think I would have to get my FFL first and NY is tough if you don't own a gun shop.

[44 AMP]

IF you decide to be come a machinegun/SBR manufacturer. There are some detail you ought to consider. Among them is while you can manufacture, and test "samples" they will still have to be registered with the Feds (and maybe the state you are in). They will be registered to the company, not you as an individual. And you better make sure of your legal ground to go out and play with them, even as a "company employee".

Also, since 1986, none of your "samples" can be registered and sold to private citizens, only to law enforcement agencies or the military. You can't sell, give, or trade them to anyone else, except another licensed manufacturer.

The devil is in the details, and fiding out all of them will cost money, but if you are going to do it, it's money well spent, to keep you out of jail, or other legal hassles.

[blume357]

just too much hassle for me...my buddy loves to figure out how to play the system.... the sad part is he proves that if you have enough money you can still get what you want... it's us poor slobs that are still 'controlled"

[RyanJ]

Yeah, well I am one of those poor slobs too. I am awaiting my 16 1/4" barrel that's legal here in NY.
As for looking into becoming a manufacture, I talked to a buddy of mine here in NY about it and he asked me one question that answered mine, "how much paperwork and red tape do you feel like going through". Nuff said.
Thanks again for all the help guys.

Ryan

[silvercorvette]

How do you deal with the 10 round magazine limit in NY. One of the reasons I waited till I got out of NY were the stupid 10 round mag limits

[RyanJ]

To Silver Corvette,
It's easy, you buy them in PA. ha ha ha. It's still illegal, but it's not really enforced. Unless you are doing something wrong, you really don't have too much to worry about.
But ordering a new toy is a pain. It has to be sent with the 10 round mag, and usally takes a few days extra.

Ryan

P.S.-Thanks for the pic, I will wipe the drool off my desk after I send this.

[silvercorvette]

I moved from NY 3 years ago and never considered getting an AR till I left the state because of NYs silly rules. Even though I am a retired cop I was afraid of getting into trouble if someone spotted me at the range. Back in 1970 when I was still a rookie cop I was at the Huntington LI NY range and they gave me a hard time about letting my father shoot a few rounds from my hand gun. They were technically right but come on a few rounds from the gun while I was standing next to him. I was just thinking about my father today and how he would have loved to shoot the machine guns. He passed away in 1993 and never got the chance to see or shoot the guns I got after I moved from NY. 1993 is a long time ago but there isn't a day that goes by that I don't think of him