Do you see a problem?

Hdonly · August 26, 2016, 06:47 PM

I was shooting my old Smith & Wesson Military and Police .38 the other day. After the last cylinder full I fired, I couldn't swing the cylinder out. I started taking it apart that evening. Everything seemed okay, just couldn't get the cylinder free. I finally pushed really hard with one hand while rotating the cylinder while I held the latch down as hard as I could. It finally opened up and this is what I found. Sorry for the poor pictures.

lee n. field · August 26, 2016, 07:14 PM

Looks like a cracked forcing cone. Yeah, that's a problem.

Hdonly · August 26, 2016, 07:24 PM

Yes. It plumb hurt my feelings.

357 Python · August 26, 2016, 08:15 PM

How old is this revolver? The reason I ask is that when I worked private security there was fellow that carried a Colt .38 Special that he claimed would fire 357 Magnum rounds. I said no way but later found out I was wrong. There was a time that cylinders for old .38 Specials were drilled straight through. A 357 Magnum could easily be chambered in these old cylinders even though they are not safe to shoot. I imagine that someone did just that, fired a 357 Magnum or more through the cylinder. The cylinder seems strong enough but the forcing cone failed. I don't know if this is the case but it could be one possibility.

Hdonly · August 26, 2016, 08:26 PM

It was built in the early 1900's. It's a S&W Military and Police. Only had .38 specials in it for the last 25 years since I have owned it. I have read that because of the way they ground the bottom of the barrel flat to clear the cylinder pin when closed, it weakens that part of the forcing cone. Previous owner may have fired +p or hot handloads and cracked it. If cracked, then if finally eroded through and opened up the crack. New barrel time.

gbran · August 27, 2016, 12:22 AM

You're a lucky feller.

Hdonly · August 27, 2016, 09:12 AM

Found a new 5" barrel for a little over 30 bucks. Present barrel is a 6". From all I have read, it should fit without having to change anything else.

**Mike Irwin** · August 27, 2016, 09:19 AM

Little JB Weld will fix that right up.

Hdonly · August 27, 2016, 09:43 AM

Haha. JB the magic glue. JB, some bailing wire and duct tape. If you can't fix it with that, it can't be fixed!

jaguarxk120 · August 27, 2016, 11:58 AM

You can get a new M&P 5 inch barrel from Numrich for $35.

bedbugbilly · August 27, 2016, 12:12 PM

Replace the barrel and keep on shootin'. Barrels are available and it should be an easy switch out for a good pistol smith. You probably are used to the 6" barrel but I love my M&P 5" much better that I like my 6: barrels - can't really say why but my 5" is the first on I grab to go shoot lead downrange. Good luck!

Hdonly · August 27, 2016, 02:05 PM

Ordered a new unused 5" barrel yesterday @ $34.40 + shipping. I like this old Smith too much to stop shooting it. Has the best trigger of anything I own.

ThomasT · August 27, 2016, 05:25 PM

Quote:

How old is this revolver? The reason I ask is that when I worked private security there was fellow that carried a Colt .38 Special that he claimed would fire 357 Magnum rounds. I said no way but later found out I was wrong. There was a time that cylinders for old .38 Specials were drilled straight through. A 357 Magnum could easily be chambered in these old cylinders even though they are not safe to shoot. I imagine that someone did just that, fired a 357 Magnum or more through the cylinder. The cylinder seems strong enough but the forcing cone failed. I don't know if this is the case but it could be one possibility.

That really sounds like one of the very early Colts chambered in 38 long colt. IIRC they used a hollow based bullet that would expand to fit the cylinder and bore from an undersized bullet and they were drilled straight through. But shooting 357 through it was a very bad idea.

HDonly is that last picture a picture of your gun with the new barrel installed?

Hdonly · August 27, 2016, 06:46 PM

No, that's an older picture. I haven't got the new barrel yet. My gun has only had .38 special fire in it for the last 25 years. Can't say what may have been through it before that. I just checked. Mine is not drilled all the way through. .357 will not chamber all the way.

James K · August 27, 2016, 09:02 PM

Up to about 1903, the .38 Colt DA had no shoulder in the chamber. They were stated as being chambered for the .38 Long Colt, but in fact were drilled straight through and would accept both the .38 Special and the later .357 Magnum. They would usually take standard .38 Special OK, but .357's would often destroy them. About 1903, Colt caught on and cut shoulders in the chambers to allow use of .38 Special (but not .357), but never changed the markings (though they did change the advertising).

Jim

ThomasT · August 28, 2016, 04:23 PM

Here is more information on the 38 long colt and it says that the cylinders were bored straight through.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.38_Long_Colt

James K · August 29, 2016, 09:11 PM

The change to the chambers and barrel was not exactly held secret by Colt, but it was not given a lot of publicity either. A few military users knew, but most were pleasantly surprised to find that the new revolvers (with the revised chambers) shot much better and both accuracy and range scores improved dramatically. I don't have the serial number of the changes handy, but a glance in the chamber(s) will easily reveal the new form.

Jim

Hdonly · September 3, 2016, 07:55 PM

Finally got the barrel in. Spending this evening polishing the machine marks out of it. By hand of course. Kit to cut the barrel extension length and forcing cone is pricey. Maybe I can make the tools on my lathe and mill. All it will take is time and some studying. I have never done this before although I have read the instructions that comes with the tools over and over. I am sure I can do it. The question is can I do it right the first time?haha

Hdonly · September 5, 2016, 12:29 AM

Getting closer to having my Smith & Wesson back together. The barrel came out easy. Drove the pin out. Popped the barrel just a little right where the ejector rod locks up on the barrel with a small plastic faced hammer and it came right loose. I really didn't think it would be so easy to loosen up. I had planned on building wooden blocks to lock the barrel and build a wrench and blocks to fit the frame. Not needed. I had read that the older Smith barrels weren't that tight because of the pin. Well, they aren't that tight. When I screwed the new one in and lined it up for the sights, I had between .004" and .005" cylinder gap. Only problem is I still have about a .012" gap between the frame and the boss of the barrel. Not enough to go around again. If I shim the barrel I can make everything come out just right. If I remove the barrel and take the boss down with my lathe, I will have to cut the barrel gap and re-cut the forcing cone. I vote to shim, but maybe I should go over to the Smithy forum and ask some questions.

old bear · September 5, 2016, 07:58 AM

O/P sure looks like a cracked forcing cone. If so it's NO longer safe to shoot. Sorry, model 10's are great all around, use, revolvers.

Hdonly · September 5, 2016, 09:02 AM

old bear, I guess you didn't read my last post just before yours?

August 26, 2016, 07:14 PM	#2
lee n. field Senior Member Join Date: October 12, 2002 Location: The same state as Mordor. Posts: 5,568	Looks like a cracked forcing cone. Yeah, that's a problem. __________________ "As was the man of dust, so also are those who are of the dust, and as is the man of heaven, so also are those who are of heaven. Just as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the man of heaven. "

August 27, 2016, 09:19 AM	#8
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,380	Little JB Weld will fix that right up. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

August 27, 2016, 12:12 PM	#11
bedbugbilly Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 2009 Posts: 3,287	Replace the barrel and keep on shootin'. Barrels are available and it should be an easy switch out for a good pistol smith. You probably are used to the 6" barrel but I love my M&P 5" much better that I like my 6: barrels - can't really say why but my 5" is the first on I grab to go shoot lead downrange. Good luck! __________________ If a pair of '51 Navies were good enough for Billy Hickok, then a single Navy on my right hip is good enough for me . . . besides . . . I'm probably only half as good as he was anyways. Hiram's Rangers Badge #63

August 26, 2016, 07:24 PM	#3
Hdonly Senior Member Join Date: January 5, 2013 Posts: 340	Yes. It plumb hurt my feelings.

August 26, 2016, 08:15 PM	#4
357 Python Senior Member Join Date: June 7, 2007 Location: Charlottesville, VA Posts: 941	How old is this revolver? The reason I ask is that when I worked private security there was fellow that carried a Colt .38 Special that he claimed would fire 357 Magnum rounds. I said no way but later found out I was wrong. There was a time that cylinders for old .38 Specials were drilled straight through. A 357 Magnum could easily be chambered in these old cylinders even though they are not safe to shoot. I imagine that someone did just that, fired a 357 Magnum or more through the cylinder. The cylinder seems strong enough but the forcing cone failed. I don't know if this is the case but it could be one possibility.

August 26, 2016, 08:26 PM	#5
Hdonly Senior Member Join Date: January 5, 2013 Posts: 340	It was built in the early 1900's. It's a S&W Military and Police. Only had .38 specials in it for the last 25 years since I have owned it. I have read that because of the way they ground the bottom of the barrel flat to clear the cylinder pin when closed, it weakens that part of the forcing cone. Previous owner may have fired +p or hot handloads and cracked it. If cracked, then if finally eroded through and opened up the crack. New barrel time.

August 27, 2016, 12:22 AM	#6
gbran Senior Member Join Date: May 18, 2004 Location: Middle California Posts: 364	You're a lucky feller.

August 27, 2016, 09:12 AM	#7
Hdonly Senior Member Join Date: January 5, 2013 Posts: 340	Found a new 5" barrel for a little over 30 bucks. Present barrel is a 6". From all I have read, it should fit without having to change anything else.

August 27, 2016, 09:43 AM	#9
Hdonly Senior Member Join Date: January 5, 2013 Posts: 340	Haha. JB the magic glue. JB, some bailing wire and duct tape. If you can't fix it with that, it can't be fixed!

August 27, 2016, 11:58 AM	#10
jaguarxk120 Senior Member Join Date: February 28, 2008 Location: Michigan Posts: 2,619	You can get a new M&P 5 inch barrel from Numrich for $35.

August 27, 2016, 06:46 PM	#14
Hdonly Senior Member Join Date: January 5, 2013 Posts: 340	No, that's an older picture. I haven't got the new barrel yet. My gun has only had .38 special fire in it for the last 25 years. Can't say what may have been through it before that. I just checked. Mine is not drilled all the way through. .357 will not chamber all the way.

August 27, 2016, 09:02 PM	#15
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Up to about 1903, the .38 Colt DA had no shoulder in the chamber. They were stated as being chambered for the .38 Long Colt, but in fact were drilled straight through and would accept both the .38 Special and the later .357 Magnum. They would usually take standard .38 Special OK, but .357's would often destroy them. About 1903, Colt caught on and cut shoulders in the chambers to allow use of .38 Special (but not .357), but never changed the markings (though they did change the advertising). Jim

August 28, 2016, 04:23 PM	#16
ThomasT Senior Member Join Date: January 22, 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 2,753	Here is more information on the 38 long colt and it says that the cylinders were bored straight through. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.38_Long_Colt

August 29, 2016, 09:11 PM	#17
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	The change to the chambers and barrel was not exactly held secret by Colt, but it was not given a lot of publicity either. A few military users knew, but most were pleasantly surprised to find that the new revolvers (with the revised chambers) shot much better and both accuracy and range scores improved dramatically. I don't have the serial number of the changes handy, but a glance in the chamber(s) will easily reveal the new form. Jim

September 5, 2016, 07:58 AM	#20
old bear Senior Member Join Date: November 3, 2009 Location: Not close enough to the beach Posts: 1,477	O/P sure looks like a cracked forcing cone. If so it's NO longer safe to shoot. Sorry, model 10's are great all around, use, revolvers.

September 5, 2016, 09:02 AM	#21
Hdonly Senior Member Join Date: January 5, 2013 Posts: 340	old bear, I guess you didn't read my last post just before yours?