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Old September 28, 2011, 01:27 PM   #1
dachshund
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45 Colt factory duplication load in AA#5

I am looking for a factory duplication load in 45 Colt, which would be 860 fps with a 255 gr lead bullet. I will be using AA#5. The data in the Accurate Arms tables (9.4 to 10.4 grs.) differs quite a bit from Speer data (10.6 to 11.6 grs.) and various loads I've seen cited by several individuals in various forums only add to the confusion. I'm not looking for hot loads or cowboy action loads, just factory load duplication. Any info would be appreciated...
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Old September 28, 2011, 05:12 PM   #2
TATER
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I'm just making it to 850fps with 10.5 AA#5 and 250 grain Sutters @ .452.
It is very accurate and shoots to POA at 25 yards.

I much prefer using Unique when loading single stage, But not on the Dillon.
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Old September 28, 2011, 08:54 PM   #3
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Thanks for the info. I've been using 8 grs. of Unique for 30+ years, but I'm looking for something that meters better, Unique makes loading slow and tedious, so I decided to go with WW231 or AA#5 to make things a little easier in my old age...
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Old September 29, 2011, 04:32 AM   #4
Mike / Tx
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The newer Lyman manual I have list almost identical charge weights as your Accurate data for a 255gr #452424 with an OAL of 1.575". Test firearm listed as a Ruger Blackhawk 7.5" barrel. Start load is 9.3grs for 737fps. Top end load & velocity is listed as 10.4grs for 845fps.
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Old September 29, 2011, 08:32 AM   #5
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Thank you, very helpful info. I wonder why the data in the Speer Manuals (12 &14) shows loads that are so much heavier. Maybe I need to look at the latest issue and see if any thing has changed...
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Old September 29, 2011, 06:14 PM   #6
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Accurate Arms factory data is almost worthless. I have followed AA data, gotten low velocities and poor performance, or alternatively, pierced and blown primers in rifle calibers. Their data for the 44 Spl and AA#5 was galactically off. By a couple of parsecs at least. I always feel trepidation on the first shot across the screens with AA powder because you really don’t know if this lot is a hot lot, or a slow lot, or if the data in their manuals has any relationship with reality.

Flip a coin.

I consider a 250 or 255 L with 8.5 grains Unique a factory equivalent load. That is my velocity standard, the standard by which I compare new powders. This load should give just at 850 fps in most revolvers.

I spent a lot of time and effort developing a good load in the 45 LC with my lots of AA#5. I decided that a 250 L with 10.5 grains was a safe and acceptable load. I would not go any higher.

If you notice, the last set of data, a change of primers really does give a change of velocity. Be aware of what you are using.



Code:
5 1/2" USFA Rodeo 			
					
250 LRN (.452") 8.5 grs Unique  thrown, R-P cases, CCI300 primers	
12-May-02	T = 80°F				
					
Ave Vel =855	 	 	 	
Std Dev =16	 	 		
ES  =	59.91	 	 		
High  =	885.4		 		
Low  =	825.5		 		
Number Shots	12				
					
250 LRN  (.452") 9.5 grains AA#5 thrown, R-P cases, CCI300 primers	
12-May-02	T = 80°F	Taper Crimp			
					
Ave Vel =728.4	 	
Std Dev =26.66		
ES  =118.7		
High  =	786.6		
Low  =	667.8		
Number Shots= 32		
					
					
250 LRN  (.452") 9.5 grains AA#5 thrown, Mixed cases, WLP 	
14-Oct-08	T = 81°F				
					
Ave Vel =793	 			
Std Dev =25	 			
ES  =	68.5	 			
High  =	839.8				
Low  =	771.3				
Number Shots	6				
					
					
250 LRN  (.452") 10.0 grains AA#5 thrown, Mixed cases, Wolf Primers	
	14-Oct-08	T = 81°F			
					
Ave Vel =816.3				
Std Dev =32.83				
ES  =	126.1				
High  =	890				
Low  =	763.4				
Number Shots	21				
			
					
250 LRN  (.452")  10.5 grains AA#5 thrown, R-P cases, CCI300 primers
12-May-02	T = 80°F	Taper Crimp			
					
Ave Vel =792	 		 	
Std Dev =29	 			
ES  =	97.52	 			 
High  =	843.4				 
Low  =	745.8				
Number Shots	30				
	Excellent Accuracy 			
					
					
250 LRN  (.452")  11.0 grains AA#5 thrown, various cases, CCI300 primers
18-May-02	T = 60°F	Roll Crimp			
					
Ave Vel =853	 		 	
Std Dev =20	 			
ES  =	87.85	 			 
High  =	890.9				 
Low  =	803				 
Number Shots	24				
	Excellent Accuracy, little powder residue		
					
250 LRN  (.452")  11.5 grains AA#5 thrown, various cases, CCI300 primers
18-May-02	T = 60°F	Roll Crimp			
Ave Vel =885	 		 	
Std Dev =23	 			
ES  =	75.57	 			 
High  =	921.2				 
Low  =	845.6				 
Number Shots	25				
					
Excellent accuracy, little powder residue			

240 JHP Sierra (.4515") 11.0 grs AA#5 R-P cases, CCI300 primers	
11-Sep-05	T = 88 °F				
					
Ave Vel =736				
Std Dev =36				
ES  =	145.1				
High  =	791.4				
Low  =	646.3				
N =	14				
					






Code:
250 LRN (.454") Valiant 8.5 grs Unique thrown lot 5471, 4/3/06, R-P cases, WLP primers

25-Mar-07 T = 80 °F accurate 
Ave Vel = 891 
Std Dev = 17 
ES 61.31 
High 921.1 
Low 859.8 
Number Shots 27 

250 LSWC (.452") 10.5 grs AA#5 lot 12599 mixed cases WLP (nickel) 

23-Sep-07 T = 82 °F 

Ave Vel = 875.1 
Std Dev = 19.36 
ES = 62.64 
High = 905.7 
Low = 843 
N = 12 


250 LSWC (.452") 10.5 grs AA#5 lot 12599 mixed cases Wolf NCLP 

23-Sep-07 T = 82 °F 

Ave Vel = 826.2 
Std Dev = 20.14 
ES = 63.38 
High = 862.1 
Low = 798.7 
N = 12
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Old September 29, 2011, 07:00 PM   #7
ligonierbill
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My "field" load is a 250 gr RNFP hard cast over 10.5 gr AA #5. Out of a 6 1/2" Blackhawk, I get 980 fps. Sounds a little high, I know, but I have run .22 target rounds over the chrono, and it is accurate. Nice round to shoot.
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Old September 29, 2011, 09:00 PM   #8
dachshund
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Thanks, I really appreciate your input. I'm not not sure my decision to change from 8.0 grs. Unique to AA#5 was a good one. It looks like AA powders vary significantly from lot to lot. I'm looking to simplify things, not complicate them. Maybe WW231-HP38 would have been a better choice.

I sent an email to Accurate Arms, posing my question to them about three days ago, and have received no reply. That does not please me. I would rather do business with someone who is more concerned with my satisfaction with their products. I would stay with Unique except for the fact that it is a real nuisance to meter...

Again, thanks to all for the valuable info...
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Old September 30, 2011, 01:26 AM   #9
Pathfinder45
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45 Colt powders

I've only shot up one pound of AA-5.....all of it in 45 Colt. All with 250 and 255 grain bullets. I used 11.0 grains and did not get a chance to use a chronograph. My over-all impression was that it was a good powder but there are others I like better. Like, well, Unique. It still deserves its reputation as the standard for 45 Colt. My favorite powders for this application are Titegroup, Unique, HS-7, and AA-9. If I could have only one powder for the 45 I would choose HS-7 without hesitation. Alas, it is discontinued! No worries I still have plenty. For some reason people give me powder so I end up trying a lot of them. Plus, I'm a sucker for those occassional lucky deals at the gun shows that keep happening to me. I've burned up a fair amount of HP-38/W231 and Red Dot....They are both real good.....But if I'm paying full price I prefer Titegroup for that class. And of course, if you haven't tried it yet..... pack as much fffG black powder as will fit snugly under a 250 or 255 grain lead bullet. You'll be impressed by the experience.
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Old September 30, 2011, 08:31 AM   #10
dachshund
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I tried 40 grs of Triple 7 fffg per their data. Shot well, lots of smoke - FUN ,until I got to the cleanup, then I remembered why I don't shoot my cap and ball revolvers more often.
But, I digress. I've used 8 grs of Unique for 30 some years. It has always shot well in more guns than I can remember. The only problem I've had is trying to get it to meter consistantly. I've used various measures and it's always the same, so I decided to make things easier and try some AA#5. A couple of my shooting buddies are high on AA powders. It's just an experiment, if it is too big a pain, I'll go back to good old Unique...
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Old September 30, 2011, 10:25 AM   #11
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Don't forget about Universal in the .45 Colt. I shot quite a bit of Unique and liked it fairly well. But I like the Universal even more. It meters better and burns cleaner with the same amount of powder.

Actually, my favorite .45 Colt powder of all is VV N-330, but it's more expensive.
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Old September 30, 2011, 10:38 AM   #12
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Bullseye measures a lot better than Unique and can be used in the same applications. It's also bulkier than AA#5. (checking my load books) Looks like about 5.5 to 6 grains of Bullseye ought to do it.

WSF measures just like 231 and works well in .45 Colt hot loads; use Herco load data (about 9 grains) because there is no WSF data published for revolver cartridges. I've never tried loading it down below 1000 fps, so I don't know how well it would work there.
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Old September 30, 2011, 12:37 PM   #13
Pathfinder45
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AA-5

I believe you'll find AA-5 to be entirely satisfactory. I didn't find any faults with it. I wanted also to thank Slamfire for taking the trouble to post the results of his tests. It looks like WLP may be the better primer though the number of rounds tested is not enough to arrive at conclusions with certainty.
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Old September 30, 2011, 03:59 PM   #14
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I use Bullseye for 45 acp and 38 spl midrange loads, but I'd like to fill that big 45 Colt case up a little more.
And yes, Slamfire did a great job with his data, better than Accurate Arms. By the way, they still haven't replied to my email...
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Old October 5, 2011, 05:33 AM   #15
dachshund
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I finally received info from AA, it only adds to the confusion. Their "new" data was generated using a 7 3/4" unvented test barrel and WLP primers, which has changed their data significantly. They are saying with a 255 gr SWC and staying under 14,000 Psi a starting load is 8.2 grs of AA#5 with a velocity of 818, with a max load being 9.6 grs with a velocity of 936. This about a full grain less than their previous data, and over 2 grs less than Speer data! I am more inclined to believe "Slamfires" data as it is very close to Lyman data and data reported from other sources. I am more or less reconciled to the 10.5 grs. of AA#5 as a good starting load.
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