HOT! 147gr handloads

[wilkup]

I am wondering if anyone's got some spicy loads for the 147gr 9mm. I am wanting to use Speer Gold Dots JHPs for SD/HD and possibly will be looking into making my own hard cast, gas checked, flat nose bullets for HIGH penetration in the woods.

Anybody have some good recipes for this? I'm hoping to hit 1200+ fps, is this feasible using +p and +p+ ratings or will I have to go higher? I know Double Tap and Buffalo bore have some HOT! loads that are reaching up into the 1150+ range, but I'd like to get them a little warmer, if possible.

Thanks for your time and help. I look forward to hopefully getting some good recipe ideas from this thread and everyone willing to participate.

Just to cover all the bases and avoid being the scapegoat for some moron in our litigious society, I thought I'd post this for EVERYONE to read before proceeding:
THE INFORMATION IN THIS THREAD MAY NOT BE SAFE FOR YOUR OWN HANDGUN, PLEASE CHECK WITH YOUR MANUFACTURER BEFORE ATTEMPTING TO FIRE THESE ROUNDS THROUGH YOUR GUN!
YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY ACCIDENT CAUSED BY/FROM ATTEMPTING TO FIRE THESE ROUNDS THROUGH YOUR FIREARM!

[spacecoast]

Handgun or rifle? I think you're going to have a tough time making 1200 fps safely from a handgun. A carbine would probably get you there easily with the DT or BB rounds.

BB's +P+ is advertised at 1175, and says it tested at 1179 from a Hi-Power and 1165 from a Glock 19.

http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php...t_detail&p=120

[Daryl]

If you want loads that are above published data, I suggest that you experiment with YOUR firearm to see what it'll handle. You cannot dictate this, and any good handloader will know that every firearm is an individual.

A good handloader will also know how to work up to max load, and how to know when they get there. They'll know not to exceed that limit, no matter how badly they want "more" from their chosen cartridge.

Asking someone else for data beyond the cartridge's capabilities is a lot like asking someone how to get a Hyundai to rev to 7,000 RPM. You just aren't going to get there without putting a lot of strain on something.

You might want to look into something like a .357 Sig, .38 Super, or 9x25.

Daryl

[schnarrgj]

+1 for Daryl. Many years ago I figured out the getting the last few fps were not worth the danger, wear on equipment, danger, loss of accuracy, danger and additional expense. Did I mention the DANGER? If you are well aware of your capabilities,limitations and knowledge of reloading, work on it SAFELY and SLOWLY.

[Pappy John]

You might want to look into something like a .357 Sig, .38 Super, or 9x25.

I agree with this. There IS a reason these other cartridges were developed you know. You can only take any one round so far before things go bad in a hurry.

[briandg]

My thoughts? You're about to embark on a journey that will end in disaster. Instead of replacing a destroyed gun, replace it now before you blow it up and possibly hurt yourself, and replace it with something that gives you the velocity you want naturally.

People want the impossible. There are limits. You cannot put enough powder into the small capacity 9 mm case to drive the heavy 147 bullet into the speed range you want without driving pressures too high. There is no powder that can be used that will make this work.

If it was feasible, every maker would already be doing it.

And all the reloaders would still be trying to get an extra 100 fps.

[g.willikers]

The 147 grain, lead truncated cone design is a favorite load for the practical matches, so that the steel poppers go down fast.
The recommended load is rated at around 1,000 f/s.
Anything higher clearly shows signs of high pressure.
The 147 grain, like all heavy weight bullets are longer than normal, for the caliber, reducing case volume with the risk of dangerous pressures.
Be careful with this idea.

[l98ster]

Wilkup,

If you dont mind me asking, what are you going to be doing with loads that hot? If its for SD/HD, the buffalo bore will be more than enough. In fact, some might say they are an overkill.

I have been working up some 147gr loads recently for USPSA shooting. This is what I have found:

147gr JRN bullet, 3.2gr titegroup, OAL of 1.155 = 954fps (5" XD)
125gr JHP bullet, 3.6gr titegroup, OAL of 1.155 = 1028fps (5" XD)

Both of these loads shoot great from my XD tactical.

Using titegroup, I would have to say that it is going to be EXTREMELY unsafe, if not impossible to get that 147gr bullet up to 1200fps. With the 9mm case volume being so small, and the pressures getting really high, I would NOT attempt this type of velocity.

The velocity is not the unsafe part. Its the pressures you are going to need to get to that velocity. I think you are out of the range of what a 9mm can safely do.

.357Sig and .38 Super might be a better load for you.

[Xfire68]

Just as everyone else has stated, you journey will end badly if you try to push beyond your equipments intended uses.

A extra 100-200fps is not going to turn your 9 mm pistol into some sort of super beast killing 9 mm! If you want more penetration for critters in the woods then get a .357 Mag or a .357 Sig. Or while your at it go for a much bigger caliber just so you don't run into the same issues again real soon and get a 500 S&W!

[Lashlarue]

The 147 gr.jhp was the bullet of choice for the FBI, till they got results from actual shootings. The subsonic 147 gr. bullet was not expanding and over penetrating. It was replaced with the 124grain hi-shock jhp which expands to .6-.63 and does not over penetrate.

[Sheikyourbootie]

Sounds like you are needing a .357

[zxcvbob]

CAUTION: The following post includes loading data beyond currently published maximums for this cartridge. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The Firing Line, nor the staff of TFL assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information.

I use 135 grain LRN bullets (Magnus #505). Off the top of my head, I think the load data is 4.5 grains of Bullseye and 1.15" OAL (I will check my notes tonight.) It's a good heavy bullet that leaves a lot more room for powder than 147's; you can get impressive energy levels with it. I need to work up a good load using AA#7 or WSF powder.

[wilkup]

Well it appears it can't be done, at least safely, and that is good enough for me.

I didn't know and was just curious. I have a .357 Sig and a .40S&W, so I could just step it up to a larger cartridge, but wanted to know if there was anyone loading the 9mm up like I asked.

Thanks for your help =) and probably saving my gun too.

[jeffreybehr]

"Well it appears it can't be done, at least safely, and that is good enough for me."

Wilkup, don't you have any reloading manuals that list velocities and pressures?

When I started reloading for my Glock 32 357SIG, I was amazed in the differences among maximum loads from different sources. For instance, with the 147 and 800-X, Lyman lists 8.0g. for 1225FPS and 39.0K-PSI while Hodgdon lists 12-1/2% higher powder charge (9.0 grains) for 10.8% higher velocity (1317FPS) and 3% LOWER pressure (38.0K-PSI).

If you reload for your 357, my tabulation of maximum loads from maybe a dozen sources may prove handy--it includes 10 loads with a 147 flying at least 1250FPS. E-mail me at jeffreybehr(at)cox(dot)net and I'll e-mail it.

[458winshooter]

Vihtavouri has some loads listed that are close to what you are looking for but they are +P loadings.3N37 can get up to 1152 fps from a 4" barrel and N350 can reach 1144 fps both are listed at 36,300 psi.I think 35,000 psi is max standard pressure for the 9mm.
V-N105 is listed in Lee's modern Reloading as driving a 147 XTP at 1125 fps and that should be a standard pressure load although no pressure is listed.The other two loads were using 147 XTP's as well.
If this is not hot enough I would definetly look at the 357 sig or a 10mm if you are looking for more power.

[jmorris]

is this feasible using +p and +p+ ratings or will I have to go higher?

You won't have to go higher than +P+, because all that means is that the load is over +P, all the way to Kaboom. Working up 9mm major loads for USPSA I had 147's running around 1175 fps using small rifle primers and a powder you can no longer get. If you already have a 357sig you would be waisting time messing with the 9. When I was a kid I would max out my 357 loads, now that I am smarter I down load my 44.

[azredhawk44]

wilkup... if you want to do it, first find out if your gun can handle +p+ according to the manufacturer.

Then, do a couple things:

First, you get some cheat points by buying a new, longer barrel. Get one that is an inch longer than your current one. Find someone that produces barrels for your model of firearm and they sell barrels that are threaded for suppressors. Then, ask them for an unthreaded one that is an inch longer than a standard barrel.

Next, increase the strength of your recoil spring.

Finally, you'll want to work with the slower burning powders for 9mm. AA#7 or AA#9 might be good places to start. You'll want to seat the bullets as long as possible. This will help prevent overpressure situations. Be careful not to go so long that the bullet gets trapped in the rifling though, and ejecting a live round ends up ripping the bullet from the cartridge and spilling powder all over your gun.

Frankly though, you'd spend a lot of money on a new barrel, new springs, and load development.

Just better to get a wide meplat cartridge in the first place. .44 special, .44 magnum, .41 magnum, 10mm, .45 colt, .45acp.

[TATER]

This came up on another board the other day.
in the VihtaVuori manual that they list a load for
147 xtp with VihtaVuori 3N38 powder In a 4" barrel, making 1200fps.
That’s awful FAST...and I would think it would beat your gun to death.

[Brian Pfleuger]

You definately want the 357sig for those kinds of numbers.


CAUTION: The following post includes loading data beyond currently published maximums for this cartridge. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The Firing Line, nor the staff of TFL assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information.



Sticking with SAAMI pressure specs, you should be able to reach 1300fps with a 5" barrel using Power Pistol, max load being around 7.4gr.

From that same 5" inch barrel using CIP pressure standards, you can hit 1350+ fps using the 147gr XTP and Power Pistol with max load being about 7.7gr.

[WESHOOT2]

E-mail direct for gun-breaking 147g data; include specifics on gun brand/type/model, components on hand, experience level for both shooting and reloading, tooling to be used, and any other info you might think pertinent.

[email protected]

[Clark]

I have overloaded .223, .243, 25acp, 25/35, 257 Roberts AI, 32acp, 32sw,
32S&WLong, 32-20, 7.62x25mm, 30-30, 7.62x39mm 7.62x54R, 8x57mm, .380,
9x19mm, 9x23mm, 357 Sig, 38 sp, 357 mag, 38sw, 40sw, 10mm, 10.4mm,
45acp, 45Colt, 452/70, .410, and 45/70.

But some of those are a one day deal.
I have spent zillions of hours overloading 9mm.

The 147 gr will make major with the book load for 3N37 and will not make major with the book load for Power Pistol.

If you knew what I know, that would be an example of how inconsistent book loads are.

Power Pistol is how the 147 gr will get the most velocity.

If the bullet seats into compressed powder, the bullet may squish, and that can cause a pressure spike.
The loaded ammo needs to be resized or the powder needs to be pre-compressed in the case.

I like a pin gauge held in a bullet puller collet die to pre compress powder in a 9mm case.

In any case, the cartridge must be able to drop into and fall out of the chamber without getting stuck. That is the test for squished bullets.

[wilkup]

Alright, the last 2 posts are leading me to believe otherwise with the 147gr 9mm. The reason I'm interested in a higher velocity is for penetration with a cast round and better expansion with the deep penetration a hollow point could offer me for SD/HD use.

So, enlighten me. What bullets would I have to use to get these levels of performance and would I have to alter my guns too much in order to handle it? I've got a aluminum and polymer framed handguns to work with here, but don't want to replace everything because if it's too expensive I'm just going to use my .357S&W to do the job instead.

[WESHOOT2]

Just pick any quality 124/125g JHP, and drive it (heavily) with 3N37.

[RidgwayCO]

This is the only source I know of that might have what you want. If you choose to try this, please work up your loads slowly and carefully. Here you go...

http://www.lapua.com/fileadmin/user_...deEdition8.pdf

[Jim243]

Wilkup

Good thinking about the 357 mag. If you want a 9mm at 357 speed, get a 357 Sig (9mm bullet in a 40 S&W case) it will give you 1,350 fps with a 125 grain 9mm.

Jim