De-capping Live Primers

[Sevens]

Decapping live primers is the single most dangerous thing you can do while reloading.

That's absolutely obnoxious.
People get themselves in to trouble when they use superlatives. I can list a dozen things more dangerous than decapping live primers.

It's a fine caution, and good on you for forwarding some caution. But that's it... SOME caution. To even suggest that it's the most dangerous thing you can do while reloading is (in my best Mike Tyon voice) LUDICROUS and PREPOSTEROUS. (go ahead, try the Mike Tyson voice with those two words... you'll laugh!)

For the record, I do safely, slowly and with eye protection decap live primers in the very rare times I need to. Nice and easy gets it done.

Now to the OP, why don't you load up the rounds? The brass is primed and ready to go, why not make use of it? The 454 calls for small rifle primer if I remember correctly so they should be loaded up with small rifle primers. Now even if they are small pistol primers in there, they still should go off with no problem. I have heard of guys using small pistol in 454 with no ill effects.

This is bad advice. Nothing personal, so don't take it personally, but the .454 is designed around a small rifle primer because of the pressure of the round which is one of T-H-E highest pressure handgun rounds in existence. The rifle primer not only burns hotter for longer but it has a thicker, harder cup which is designed to contain the high pressures of a rifle round. This is not a 17,000 PSI .38 semi-wadcutter here. This is 50k PSI chambering.

Don't load the brass with someone else's primer in it. It's not at all likely that you'll have a problem, but IMO, it's a simple risk/reward equation. Primers go for 3 to 4 cents each, but if you have some unknown small pistol primer in there and the cup gets pierced and the gases flow, you might be scarred for life or damage a fine handgun. (or a crappy one!)

[billcarey]

I wouldn't count on it. Here's an experiment I tried a few weeks ago. On a range trip I found this .45acp round that someone had apparently found in the grass and left on the bench. There's no telling how long this cartridge had been exposed to the elements of the Texas Gulf Coast.

Might be right but brass laying outside with a bullet crimped in may not get wet or may dry out after getting wet. There is no water pressure compared to being submerged and even a lightly crimped bullet would stop most rainwater. Submerging empty primed brass in water several days and immediately depriming could make a difference. I don't know how waterproof they are...but I may soak a primer overnight and shoot it to see. In 20 yrs I've deprimed maybe 3 live pistol primers so it isn't high on my list of things to do though.

[Farmland]

It is like the golfer who plays during an approaching thunder storm. They have done it a thousands times and because they were not hit by lighting it is safe.

I still consider it poor information with so many new reloaders coming here for information. I don't mind the sarcasm tossed my way on this.

Here is what one manufacture of presses states. Read #5. Yeah we can just say their lawyers make them say it. However I believe it is there because they know the danger.

In any event I am not ready to recommend a procedure that is dangerous. That never means you have to follow my advice because I see golfers all the time playing during an approaching thunder storm.

http://www.dillonhelp.com/rl1050_man...and_safety.htm

I might add that decapping a live primers is not mention as one of the ways to deactivate a primer in any reloading book.

[snuffy]

Do what you feel is safe, don't do what you think may not be safe. Nobody here is trying to twist anybodies arm to make them do a very UNSAFE thing. We're just saying we do it all the time with no problems.

My post on this thread was just to show that NONE of the conditions needed to make a primer detonate were present when slowly pushing a live primer out of a shell. That is NOT to say it could never happen. But then little to no damage would result. One cardinal rule about handloading is the use of eye protection. Same goes for shooting. Most ranges will NOT let anyone shoot without eye protection.

Now one place where I would not try to remove a live primer; If when pulling down ammo with crimped in military primers! The crimp could give enough resistance to fire the primer. I read an article from a guy that worked at a pull-down place where they were re-claiming military ammo. They hired a bunch of women to do the work, which included de-priming the crimped primers. He stressed repeatedly to do it s-l-o-w-l-y. One gal just didn't understand the slow part, she had one go off. After a change of laundry, she got it right. The work proceeded with no more POPPPPS.

[jamaica]

I have deprimed live primers as have many of you. I have also had them go in sideways, get smashed terribly getting them low enough to come out of the shellholder, and upside down. I have decapped all these things. I have never had a primer detonate in the press. I guess if I live long enough it may happen some day. I have only been loading for 50 years.

Actually, I don't often have need to deprime live primers, but it does happen at times.

I say, use caution, use your safery glasses, go slow.

Ok, what is going to happen if one goes off?

Some hot gasses will go upward out of the mouth of the case. Keep your body parts away from that area.

The primer cup and maybe the anvil will be ejected down the groove in the press ram. These fast moving projectiles could fly about the area and give you grief. What I do is place a wadded up rag over that groove as I slowly push out the primer to catch these flying parts if it should happen to go off.

Make sure you have other primers and powder capped over or out of the area. You wouldn't want to ignite anything else if one popped.

The last bad effect may have something to do with your shorts if one pops.

You will have to decide for yourself now that you have had all this input from the forum members.

Its a great hobby.

[Bud Helms]

I've read this thread with some interest. It is interesting how a practice become belief and then accepted dogma and seems to need defending. And I have to say I chuckled at the "piling on" in this thread.

In this thread no one has disputed that primers are ignition devices that function, as intended, from impact and as such should be handled with care and respect. So I am kind of amazed at what I read as a cavalier attitude about their treatment on the bench.

Decapping an unexpended primer may not be the unsafest act one can perform at the reloading bench and I have done it for the simple reason that I was lazy. Out of 60 live decaps, I had one pop on me. I thought I pulled the lever the same on all of them. I don't know why one did and the other 59 didn't, but that told me how safe it can be ... or not. Of course, it caused no harm other than having to pull some denim out of my rear end. I've crushed 'em and loaded 'em into the pocket sideways ... everyway you can screw it up, I've done it. But none of it was because I thought it was okay and without the possibility of danger. And I would never say it is okay to do it.

Which leads me to the truly astounding thing I read in this thread ... that some of you actually reuse decapped, unexpended primers. Since their physical configuration is key to their operation, to reuse one is to invite failure to ignite. Why would you do that? I don't know if the successful reuse of decapped primers is a tribute to the robust nature of their construction or whether we are hearing an account of pure luck, but I do believe it is not a sensible thing to do. The geometry of the component parts of the primer and their assembly, is vital to their operation.

Decapping an unexpended primer can deform the anvil and increase the pressure between the anvil head and the primer mixture. Have you cracked or crushed the mixture tablet? You just don't know. As far as I know that would be the failure mode. Why risk it?

I have no other reply argument for those that decap and reuse except that to assert that "it is okay because I have done it many times with no problem" is anecdotal evidence and is not the kind of evidence on which you should draw inferential conclusions. It may be that you have gotten away with it so far. I don't know. I assert that it is a poor practice for quality handloaded ammo, if for no other reason.

Oh, yeah, one more thing. I have 13 rounds of .30-30 Ackley Improved handloads with decapped and reused primers that misfired on a hog hunt right here on the desk before me, as I type this. I fired everyone of them one after another. I dug them out of a drawer to look at them as I read this thread. The firing pin dent is clear as can be. Seven others loaded at the same time fired fine. They had new primers. Everything about these twenty cartridges is exactly the same except for the decapped and reused vs new primers. Later, I took them to the range and tried again. NONE of them will fire. I had decapped some live primers and decided to use them because they looked fine. They weren't fine.

BTW, I don't consider reloading with decapped primers dangerous to the reloader or shooter, but I won't do it again. I also realize that everyone that claimed decapping live primers could be done safely did not advocate their reuse.

[snuffy]

BTW, I don't consider reloading with decapped primers dangerous to the reloader or shooter, but I won't do it again. I also realize that everyone that claimed decapping live primers could be done safely did not advocate their reuse.

Bud, I've re-seated ALL the primers I've had to decap, EXCEPT the ones that were crushed. All of them fired, I mark the shell that gets the re-used primers, so I don't rely on them in a match or for hunting. You are 100% correct that the primer will NOT be the same after being seated, then decapped. The pellet may well be cracked and the anvil over stressed. The sensitivity certainly is changed.

Most of my de-capping live primers came after I bought that awful vibra-prime primer tube filler. I had a bunch of upside down primers in a batch of 40's loaded on my dillon 650. After a stint with the kinetic bullet puller, I decapped them then loaded them right-side-up. They all had a tiny dent in the center of the cup, BUT they all fired while shooting practice for IDPA.

[Bud Helms]

With that kind of experience, I guess I don't blame you.

Just be sure and let us know the first time one duds on ya, okay?

[Cult .44]

Other than setting them off, is there a safe way to deactivate live primers and dispose of them? Soak them in water or something?

[LHB1]

Quote: "Other than setting them off, is there a safe way to deactivate live primers and dispose of them? Soak them in water or something? "

Thirty or forty years ago, I could soak primers in oil for a week or so and kill the primer compound but that no longer seems to work. I tried soaking some a couple of years ago and it didn't faze them. They still popped. Perhaps the mfrs are covering them with a protective coating of some kind that protects the primer compound. The only safe disposal method that I know is to pop them. If you don't want to fire them in your gun, put one on a piece of metal or concrete and pop it with a hammer. BE SURE TO WEAR SAFETY GLASSES AND EAR PROTECTION WHEN POPPING PRIMERS.

[SL1]

Some responded that it was dangerous to use them because the .454 uses small rifle primers and has full pressure loads that run around 50,000 psi. True for FULL-POWER loads. But, I don't think anybody actually shoots only full power loads in a .454 Casull.

For plinking loads, ANY primer would be safe in a .454 handgun with a power charge that produces .45 Colt pressures.

So, anybody have any objections to that advice?

SL1

[wncchester]

"Now one place where I would not try to remove a live primer; If when pulling down ammo with crimped in military primers! The crimp could give enough resistance to fire the primer."

Snuffy, you done it again. Reminds me of a time, long ago...

1965 actually. I borrowed a Lee Loader and pulled some corroded GI AP bullets so I could use about 200 free 30-06 cartridges with good cases for my DCM '03-A3. The age of the case headstamps told me the primers were corrosive so I choose to decap them in spite of the crimped primers - and in the Lee Loader!

Did have the good sense to wear a leather glove on my left hand while holding the decapper rod, hammering it with my right hand's hammer...all while sitting cross-legged on the living room floor! Actually, as I remember it, only about 85% of the primers went off. The first ten or twenty did make me jump a bit, but it soon became "normal" and didn't even bother my wife!

The loaded rounds shot as well as I could hold. That was when I was young and poor, rather than like now, being old and poor.

[Sport45]

Originally Posted by IllinoisCoyoteHunter

Quote:

YOU DID WHAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That, my friend, is the single most dangerous thing you can do when relaoding!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Maybe you can recommend a better die for this???

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

S-A-R-C-A-S-M. I know it can be hard to sense sarcasm when reading posts...

[snuffy]

Quote:
Originally Posted by IllinoisCoyoteHunter
Quote:
Quote:
I pushed the primer out in a Lee universal decapping die
YOU DID WHAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That, my friend, is the single most dangerous thing you can do when relaoding!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Maybe you can recommend a better die for this???

You failed to see he was being sarcastic. Notice Mr. green at the end?

The lee decapping die is BETTER than a FL die, because it's open above the shell to make room for all the bigger cases that MAY be decapped. That allows more room for the pressure to dissipate.

[Sport45]

I noticed the sarcasm, hence the smiley at the end of my post. (and I was sure to put "Mr Green" back into his when I quoted)

It was Sevens that seemed to have taken the post seriously.

[Sevens]

I wouldn't say I took it seriously... at least, in a bad or upset kind of way.
Just that the use of superlatives annoy me and (IMO), assault the credibility of the post.

It's my line of thought that if you say that decapping a live primer is the most dangerous thing you can do at the load bench... you completely dismiss all the problems you can create with things like:
--the wrong powder charge
--the wrong powder type
--powder one of type getting poured back in to the wrong can
--screwing up case neck tension which can lead to bullet setback
--trying to seat further a primer in an already loaded round
...and any number of other screw-ups that can ruin a day at the range and a firearm or eyeballs or fingers, etc.

[Gbro]

1965 actually. I borrowed a Lee Loader and pulled some corroded GI AP bullets so I could use about 200 free 30-06 cartridges with good cases for my DCM '03-A3. The age of the case headstamps told me the primers were corrosive so I choose to decap them in spite of the crimped primers - and in the Lee Loader!

Some of the younger folks here might not get the picture of what you were using back then.

I used those hand loading kits when I 1st started reloading and had a primer pop on me in the priming step. (to hard a swat with the plastic hammer)
Of course there was no trembling and wondering why one was still alive after the primer popped, Because it was not unlike the good old roll caps we would shoot a dozen years earlier. And those were some good caps, I would dare to say they were better than Doc Maynards from 100 years earlier

[Dannyl]

Hi,

This topic keeps coming up, and has been dealt with each time.
There will always be a few who consider this a very dangerous activity, but the reality is that many of us have done it ( and do it on occassion) without any ill effects.
I have decapped rifle primers with my Hornady FL sizing die and 0.357 Mag(FEDERAL) primers with an ordinary lee sizing die. ( all told, I must have removed at least 100 of each, no problems whatsoever)

All you want to do is wear safety glasses (but we all do that anyhow, don't we?) and run the lever gently, avoding impact, which is what would maybe set off a primer.

As for de-activating primers, a TFL member reported at length a serious experiment that he did leaving ammo soaking with WD40 and other solvents, the rounds fired OK, so I would not necessarily trust that.

Brgds,

Danny

[Shoney]

Well!! I've tried, honestly tried not to post on this thread.

I just can't read and not have the sickening urge to trot out my old poem. So for the longtimers here, who know whats coming - - - SORRY!

Removing Live Primers!

Got live primers? Take this to heart,
It’s not hard, it’s not an art;

Or got 'em backwards? Take this to heart,
Every ‘loaders done this little brain phart;

How to remove? you might ask
Always safety first, on this little task;

Goggles and ear plugs; guard your senses;
Put up a board for good defenses;

Recycle those primer, any ol’ way;
For fowling shots, or just for play;

No primers to toss, no brass to pitch;
Jus' decap the hole on’at son-of-a-b-b-b-b-b---gun!
Shoney

[BigJimP]

It does seem to me - the idea of decapping live primers is a marginal safety issue at best ( so I don't do it ) ........ but let's keep in mind / in terms of the cost of components these days ( and prices are up ):

a primer costs about $ 0.04 cents

a powder charge is less than $ 0.01 - to maybe $ 0.02 ( depending on caliber)

a bullet costs $ 0.09 - $ 0.20 cents

So I will suggest reclaiming and reusing the bullets is easy and a decent savings ..... maybe dumping the powder into a little cup ( if you absolutely know what it is, is ok ) even though there is no money in it ..... --- but for $ 0.04 cents each / why take on a dangerous procedure like decapping a live primer ( when some of you guys spend $ 4 - $5 on a latte every day ) ..... why is this 4 Cents worth the risk ??

[c.j.sikes]

some 40 years ago, when i was a lot younger and not informed, i was given several humdre primed milt. brass. i decape about 50, all around my reloader on the bench. i got a hard to size case and given thought to it i put a double layer of canvas around the whole loader and forced the case, bang, all 50 at once . i was not hurt buy scared the heck out of me. good lesson. dont do it. now i still take a lot of precaution when i decap live primers. safty glasses and shield. , but you do what you want, rember ypu only get one set of eyes. cjs

[Smogdude]

I've only decapped a mangled M193 centurion round that got hung up by the bolt in my AR15 due to a weak mag spring. I donned eye protection but the primer didn't go off.. and this was during the crazy (at least for me) shortage of rifle primers earlier in the year... so I reloaded the primer I pressed out of a live round and it functioned just fine in my reload. I guess you could call that frugle to the extreme.

[Jim243]

Geee that expression about getting 2 people together and you will have five opinions is true.

Cali - use your common sense, if you feel you do not want to try it then don't. You failed to say how many cases you have the are already primed.

If it's 10 or less I would dump them out and buy some more, yes I know cases are expensive but cheaper than medical bills or new underware. (LOL)

If your new to reloading, them dump them. You will gain confidence after you have reloaded for a while, but just starting out you should not be concerned about excersizing caution. Safe if better, as they say "safety is no accident".

Having said that and having reloaded for over five years, I have no problem decaping live primers. Have done about 20 over that period of time without even one going off. Just use care and go slow. The exception would be if I knew it was a mil spec (Nato) case with the primer crimped in, there is no way you will get the primer out without setting it off. Just dump those.

But I am unaware of the military using 454 in any weapon, but then again I was supprised to find a Nato marking on a 38 spl case. So you never know.

As I see it you have a number of options:

1. Just use the cases with the primers that are already are in it. I have 250 cases that I purchased pre-primed and have no problem with them.

2. Decap one at a time carefully on a single stage press (wear safety gear)

3. Toss them away.

4. Call the person you purchased the gun and supplies from and ask what he loaded in the cases as primers.

Use your own judgement.

Stay safe
Jim

[CrustyFN]

I haven't had to do very many but I have also pushed out live primers. I don't see the big deal. I also reused them.