Blackhawk or Bisley?

O6nop · August 18, 2007, 07:12 PM

I just got a hold of a Ruger revolver in 45 LC, but I'm a little confused about what style I have.
The frame says "New Model Blackhawk" & ".45 Caliber".
The barrel is about 5-1.2 " long and is all blued. The cylinder says "Ruger" and "Bisley"

Any info I can find on it says Bisley barrels are 7-1/2" long. Is this standard or are the cylinders interchangeable and maybe they aren't matching...? From the serial # on the frame I discovered it was built in '97.

I would appreciate any clarification on this including what type of loads it can handle.

Jim March · August 18, 2007, 07:41 PM

Hmmm...it's almost a dead certainty this is a "large frame" gun, in which case it can cope with various "45LC+P" loads. Check the specs on some examples at:

http://www.buffalobore.com/ammunitio...ult.htm#45colt

Compare these loads to those for more normal 45LC guns:

http://www.buffalobore.com/ammunition/default.htm#low45

How to tell for sure?

Well "Bisley" really means it's a "Blackhawk" (or SuperBlackHawk) that's got the Bisley hammer, trigger and grip frame setup. Otherwise the guns are the same. And they can be retrofitted in either direction, or even partially converted - you'll sometimes see a Blackhawk that wears a Bisley hammer but normal non-Bisley grip frame.

I'm also assuming you have a "two screw" gun, meaning a "New Model" action made post-1972. Fast way to check: if the loading gate opens with the hammer fully down, it's a New. Old Models loaded on the half cock like a Colt.

Now just one more "gotcha" possible. Ruger recently made a run of "50th Anniversary 357 Blackhawk Flattop" guns that are built on a mid-size frame not compatible with monster loads. It's barely possible somebody converted one to 45LC and THEN "Bisleyized" it. Million to one but...look at the rear of the topstrap where the rear sight is. All guns post-'72 EXCEPT the anniversary models have "risers" either side of the rear sight, cast into the primary frame. Anniversaries don't. If it's not a flattop, and it's New Model, you can throw monsters downrange

.

Now. Go to Ruger's site under revolvers, Single Action:

http://www.ruger-firearms.com/Firear...ingle%20Action

They still make Bisleys, but only with adjustable sights - the fixed sight "Bisvaqs" are discontinued but they did ship. At present Bisleys are cataloged in blue, 22/44/45 calibers but others have been done in the past and distributor special runs of other combinations turn up all the time, including alternate barrel lengths. Compare them to the Blackhawks and your gun and you'll sort out what you have. It could be a discontinued combo, a distributor limited run or a homebrew.

O6nop · August 18, 2007, 08:07 PM

JM,
Thanks for the info...judging by the hammer and trigger styles, it's definitely a Bisley. I'm sure the handle conforms to the Bisley model, too. Not sure. I'm still confused about the barrel length, the Ruger website shows only a 7-1/2" barrel available.

Quote:

I'm also assuming you have a "two screw" gun, meaning a "New Model" action made post-1972. Fast way to check: if the loading gate opens with the hammer fully down, it's a New. Old Models loaded on the half cock like a Colt.

As I stated in the original post, it is a "New Model", and was built in '97.

The gate opens with the hammer down and there is no 'half-cocked' position. I guess I'm ready to shoot!

Jim March · August 18, 2007, 08:12 PM

Ruger has recently shrunk their product line some. It's very likely your gun was either a normal catalog option at the time, or maybe one of a small run made for one of the distributors.

*Might* still be a homebrew

.

Rimrod · August 19, 2007, 05:08 PM

The only book I have that mentions them says the Bisley only came in 7.5". It is possible that the barrel was replaced with a shorter one by a previous owner, I know I would have if I'd had it. It might have been cut shorter also but that would be obvious by the owners manual warning on the side of the barrel.

Jim March · August 19, 2007, 07:04 PM

Quote:

The only book I have that mentions them says the Bisley only came in 7.5".

That book is dead wrong.

It's correct as far as regular catalog items go, but distributors like Accusport and Lipseys would order special runs of all sorts of combinations: 357 Bisley stainless with a 5.5" barrel was VERY popular. 4.68" Bisleys in various calibers shipped too.

These special runs were often 500 to 1,000 at a time, often 1,000 each blue and stainless. Some were VERY odd: 40S&W Vaqueros, 45LC/45ACP convertible Vaqueros, etc. One recent example: New Vaqs in all-blue with white micarta grips.

The Ruger catalog is NOT the whole story.

BlkHawk73 · August 20, 2007, 09:02 AM

For cataloged Bisley's there were blued models with either 6 1/2" or 7 1/2" bbls. The prior were in .22lr and .32 mag while the later were in .357, .41 mag, .44 mag and .45 Colt. A Bisley Hunter in .44 mag with a 7 1/2" bbl was made in stainless as well. Non-cataloged Bisleys were Hunters in .45 Colt (Lipsey's) and .41 mag (Davidson's) and the popular 5 1/2" stainless models in .357 mag, .44 mag, .41 mag, .45 Colt and .45 Colt/.45 ACP convertable. these were all for Acusport. Lastly a very limited run (28 I believe) of stainless .22lr Bisleys on the Single Six frame were made in stainless with 4 5/8" bbls as "The Shootists" edition. These were made in rememberance of Tom Ruger.
Various models of Bisley vaqueros have been made as well along with a stainless fixed sighted .22lr one on the Sinlge six sized frame.

Quote:

The frame says "New Model Blackhawk" & ".45 Caliber".
The barrel is about 5-1.2 " long and is all blued. The cylinder says "Ruger" and "Bisley"

Any info I can find on it says Bisley barrels are 7-1/2" long. Is this standard or are the cylinders interchangeable and maybe they aren't matching...? From the serial # on the frame I discovered it was built in '97.

There were no OM Bisleys and all the frames will say "Blackhawk", "Super Blackhawk" or "Single Six". Your's is simply one that's had parts chnaged on it. Ruger single actions are basically all the same cylinder frame but with different gripframes, cylinders and bbls. For a while on a couple forums one person was trying to sell off a 4 5/8" blued Bisley as factory. It wasn't the case as no such model was produced. Also had a completely incorrect box as well.

If you'rs ha the Bisley cylinder, gripframe, triger and hammer, it's most liekly someone simply had the bbl changed. A call to the records dept at Ruger will confirm how it shipped.

Quote:

It's correct as far as regular catalog items go, but distributors like Accusport and Lipseys would order special runs of all sorts of combinations: 357 Bisley stainless with a 5.5" barrel was VERY popular. 4.68" Bisleys in various calibers shipped too.

These special runs were often 500 to 1,000 at a time, often 1,000 each blue and stainless. Some were VERY odd: 40S&W Vaqueros, 45LC/45ACP convertible Vaqueros, etc. One recent example: New Vaqs in all-blue with white micarta grips.

I've never heard not seen any factory 4 5/8" Bisleys. Bisley Vaqueros in that bbl length were a standard cataloged item but no adjustable sight modles for that length bbl except for the aforemention "Shootist" model. If I'm mistaken, please correct me and indicate the particular models.
Also should note that the exapmles given weren't Bisley configured models. A run of the .40 S&W Vaqueros was also made for a Sheriff's dept in CA I believe. The oddest I recall was a convertable Vaquero in, I believe, 38-40/10mm. Made for Davidson's I believe. Many runs were less than 500, some only had a couple hundred produced due to production availability and such.

Rimrod · August 20, 2007, 12:42 PM

Jim, it wasn't a Ruger catalog, just a used gun price guide which doesn't include special distributor or custom runs. That wasn't the point, I was trying to say they could have been altered after point of sale.

Chris McDermott · August 20, 2007, 04:10 PM

Since your cylinder is roll-marked "Bisley" (and I assume is unfluted) I would guess your gun to be one of the distributor special models, probably Accusport as they seemed to prefer having the 5.5" barrel on their models.
I have a 41 magnum 4 5/8" barreled Bisley, but I got it by having a standard Blackhawk modified with the Bisley trigger, hammer and grip frame. I also have a set of 41 Magnum Bisleys, one with a fluted cylinder and one with the unfluted roll-marked cylinder. Both are factory original and both have the 7.5" barrels.

BlkHawk73 · August 20, 2007, 05:38 PM

Quote:

I would guess your gun to be one of the distributor special models, probably Accusport as they seemed to prefer having the 5.5" barrel on their models.

The Acusport models are stainless, this one is blued.

Jim March · August 20, 2007, 07:04 PM

Quote:

I've never heard not seen any factory 4 5/8" Bisleys.

My bad, you're right, 4.68" "Bisleys" were actually Bisqueros.

JoeHatley · August 21, 2007, 09:39 AM

Quote:

I've never heard not seen any factory 4 5/8" Bisleys.

I'm pretty sure that statement is correct. That's why I built my own Bis-Hawk .45 convertable.

Fun gun...

Joe

August 18, 2007, 07:12 PM	#1
O6nop Senior Member Join Date: October 16, 2005 Location: Austin,TX Posts: 291	Blackhawk or Bisley? I just got a hold of a Ruger revolver in 45 LC, but I'm a little confused about what style I have. The frame says "New Model Blackhawk" & ".45 Caliber". The barrel is about 5-1.2 " long and is all blued. The cylinder says "Ruger" and "Bisley" Any info I can find on it says Bisley barrels are 7-1/2" long. Is this standard or are the cylinders interchangeable and maybe they aren't matching...? From the serial # on the frame I discovered it was built in '97. I would appreciate any clarification on this including what type of loads it can handle.

August 18, 2007, 07:41 PM	#2
Jim March Senior Member Join Date: February 14, 1999 Location: Pittsburg, CA, USA Posts: 7,417	Hmmm...it's almost a dead certainty this is a "large frame" gun, in which case it can cope with various "45LC+P" loads. Check the specs on some examples at: http://www.buffalobore.com/ammunitio...ult.htm#45colt Compare these loads to those for more normal 45LC guns: http://www.buffalobore.com/ammunition/default.htm#low45 How to tell for sure? Well "Bisley" really means it's a "Blackhawk" (or SuperBlackHawk) that's got the Bisley hammer, trigger and grip frame setup. Otherwise the guns are the same. And they can be retrofitted in either direction, or even partially converted - you'll sometimes see a Blackhawk that wears a Bisley hammer but normal non-Bisley grip frame. I'm also assuming you have a "two screw" gun, meaning a "New Model" action made post-1972. Fast way to check: if the loading gate opens with the hammer fully down, it's a New. Old Models loaded on the half cock like a Colt. Now just one more "gotcha" possible. Ruger recently made a run of "50th Anniversary 357 Blackhawk Flattop" guns that are built on a mid-size frame not compatible with monster loads. It's barely possible somebody converted one to 45LC and THEN "Bisleyized" it. Million to one but...look at the rear of the topstrap where the rear sight is. All guns post-'72 EXCEPT the anniversary models have "risers" either side of the rear sight, cast into the primary frame. Anniversaries don't. If it's not a flattop, and it's New Model, you can throw monsters downrange . Now. Go to Ruger's site under revolvers, Single Action: http://www.ruger-firearms.com/Firear...ingle%20Action They still make Bisleys, but only with adjustable sights - the fixed sight "Bisvaqs" are discontinued but they did ship. At present Bisleys are cataloged in blue, 22/44/45 calibers but others have been done in the past and distributor special runs of other combinations turn up all the time, including alternate barrel lengths. Compare them to the Blackhawks and your gun and you'll sort out what you have. It could be a discontinued combo, a distributor limited run or a homebrew. __________________ Jim March

August 19, 2007, 05:08 PM	#5
Rimrod Senior Member Join Date: October 19, 2005 Location: Behind enemy lines Posts: 1,309	The only book I have that mentions them says the Bisley only came in 7.5". It is possible that the barrel was replaced with a shorter one by a previous owner, I know I would have if I'd had it. It might have been cut shorter also but that would be obvious by the owners manual warning on the side of the barrel. __________________ "... he held his gun as almost every man skilled in such matters preferred to hold one when in action, with a half bent elbow that brought the gun slightly in front of his body at about, or slightly above, the level of the waist." - Wyatt Earp from Wyatt Earp Frontier Marshall by Stuart N. Lake

August 20, 2007, 12:42 PM	#8
Rimrod Senior Member Join Date: October 19, 2005 Location: Behind enemy lines Posts: 1,309	Jim, it wasn't a Ruger catalog, just a used gun price guide which doesn't include special distributor or custom runs. That wasn't the point, I was trying to say they could have been altered after point of sale. __________________ "... he held his gun as almost every man skilled in such matters preferred to hold one when in action, with a half bent elbow that brought the gun slightly in front of his body at about, or slightly above, the level of the waist." - Wyatt Earp from Wyatt Earp Frontier Marshall by Stuart N. Lake

August 18, 2007, 08:12 PM	#4
Jim March Senior Member Join Date: February 14, 1999 Location: Pittsburg, CA, USA Posts: 7,417	Ruger has recently shrunk their product line some. It's very likely your gun was either a normal catalog option at the time, or maybe one of a small run made for one of the distributors. Might still be a homebrew . __________________ Jim March

August 20, 2007, 04:10 PM	#9
Chris McDermott Senior Member Join Date: March 30, 2000 Posts: 245	Since your cylinder is roll-marked "Bisley" (and I assume is unfluted) I would guess your gun to be one of the distributor special models, probably Accusport as they seemed to prefer having the 5.5" barrel on their models. I have a 41 magnum 4 5/8" barreled Bisley, but I got it by having a standard Blackhawk modified with the Bisley trigger, hammer and grip frame. I also have a set of 41 Magnum Bisleys, one with a fluted cylinder and one with the unfluted roll-marked cylinder. Both are factory original and both have the 7.5" barrels.