Modern shotguns

[bspillman]

How old can a shotgun be and still be considered modern. Looking at shooting heavy magnum loads and steel shot for waterfowl. I hope that makes sense.

[BigJimP]

It's not the age so much....as it is the chamber length and the choke...in general:

a. you don't want to shoot Steel in any choke tighter than a Modified.

b. chamber lengths have varied a lot over time / and shells are measured in terms of length - after they are fired.

So you have to be careful that you are not firing a 3" shell in a gun chambered in 2 3/4" ..... / but if a gun has a 3"chamber ..it is safe to fire shorter shells like 2 3/4" in the 3" chamber.
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[Creek Henry]

For doubles say 30 years honestly

For SA think more like 7 or 8 years. Gas and inertia systems have really improved a LOT in the past few years.

We live in a truely amazing time for gun tech

[Virginian]

For SA think more like 7 or 8 years. Gas and inertia systems have really improved a LOT in the past few years.

You are joking I hope. There is more and more plastic and more expensive choke tubes with fancy names, and eleventy dozen camouflage patterns. The basic gas system used in the 1100 has been tweaked all over the place, but I have yet to see anything more reliable than my '63 model. Go longer between cleanings? Yes, but that technology is 20 years old now too. More flexible? Yes but that technology is 25 years old now. Lighter? Yes, since aluminum receivers 30+ years ago. The Remington variable gas port technology may prove to be a sustainable long term real improvement. I am not saying they don't all pretty much work.
Inertia systems are basically unchanged. They do work. There isn't much to change. They have added two piece stocks and other gimmicks.
Most all of the super improvements are marketing hype. Got to give a man a reason to buy a new gun.
Long recoil, the Franchi 48 has been unchanged for 65+ years and it still works too.

[jmr40]

Non-toxic shot became mandatory nation wide for migratory birds in 1991. Steel shot was by far the most common and any shotgun made since the late 80's is designed to be used with steel.

Many guns made prior to then are safe to use with steel, but many are not. The barrel steel was not strong enough and too thin at the muzzle on many guns, especially older doubles. The gun won't blow up, but you risk splitting the barrel at the muzzle forcing steel through the softer, thinner barrel on older guns.

Other than the requirement for steel shot anything not made with damascus steel barrels should be safe for all modern shells. They stopped making those in the late 1800's or very early 1900's

Prior to steel most guns were made with 2 3/4" chambers and only a handful with the longer 3" chambers. With the introduction of steel 3" was used more than in the past. You'll find a lot of pre 1990 guns that are 2 3/4" only, but they will hold up just fine to heavy 2 3/4" loads. In fact they would work just fine with 3" if they had 3" chambers.

Yea, there have been minor improvements in shotgun in recent years, but nothing that is really a game changer. I like the inertia guns, but there isn't a thing wrong with the gas guns and the older Remington 1100 is still the one others are judged against.

[FITASC]

There are modern Damascus barrels being made and passing proof, but they will be on guns from Westley Richards and are very expensive.

Older Damascus barrels can be fired AFTER they have been inspected by a qualified smith. There are several groups of folks, most notably one known as Vintagers Order of Edwardian Gunners, which enjoy their guns with modern ammo made for the pressures of those older barrels

http://vintagers.org/

So even though many of their guns are easily over 100 years old, they are still enjoyable. (Up until last year I had a Swede Mauser with a 1907 date; I used modern loads in it and it performed flawlessly).

Condition, not age, determines the gun's viability.

[bspillman]

So my mossberg 500 made in 83 with a fixed modified choke should be ok for steel shot?

[FITASC]

No reason it wouldn't, but how it patterns with the steel will be up to you, your gun, your ammo, and a pattern board.

[bspillman]

Yea I know I have to pattern it. I was just worried that it may not be safe because of its age. Thanks.

[Virginian]

Just what can anyone, qualified gunsmith or not, tell by looking at a Damascus barrel? There is NO proven non destructive testing method to determine the "weld" integrity of the barrels. A guy at doublegun has done a lot of work looking at radiography that looks promising. The only way one can be totally safe is to start every session with some proof loads. I am down to one ear, I won't be shooting any.

[T. O'Heir]

"...proven non destructive testing method..." Fluoroscopic bore scope. By looking you can only tell that it's Damascus. You might be able to see the rust, if it's far enough along.
"...Looking at shooting heavy magnum loads and steel shot..." Isn't about old age. It's about the receiver being a magnum rated receiver and the barrel being rated for steel.

[FITASC]

Just what can anyone, qualified gunsmith or not, tell by looking at a Damascus barrel? There is NO proven non destructive testing method to determine the "weld" integrity of the barrels. A guy at doublegun has done a lot of work looking at radiography that looks promising. The only way one can be totally safe is to start every session with some proof loads. I am down to one ear, I won't be shooting any.

If you get Shooting Sportsman magazin, read the current issue, specifically the article by Chris Batha regarding barrel maker Peter Higgins and the Damascus barrels he is making from OLD WW Greener (previous mention of Westley Richards was in error), tubes.

He's been building barrels by hand for over 40 years and he builds some Damascus ones from those tubes that were originally made about 100 years or more ago. Greener has been accumulating them since the 60s. After he is done, they pass proof testing.

Again AGE is not the factor as much as condition. Someone taking a brand new gun and leaving it outside for a few seasons has a greater risk than shooting one of the new Greeners made from 100 year old tubes.

[44 AMP]

Again AGE is not the factor as much as condition.

New Damascus barrel guns, including "twist" and "stub twist" were available at least to 1909, when my Grandfather got his Ithaca, and I think were available from someone (with decreasing popularity) into the 1920s.

The age of a Damascus barrel does matter, but not the number of years. What matters is what the gun has been through, or could have been through in its life. A Damascus gun with an unknown history should ALWAYS be suspect.

Most know you risk blowing a Damascus barrel with a smokeless load, but many don't realize they can come apart with the blackpowder shells they were made for, as well, if the barrel welds have weakened.

My Grandfather had a stub twist gun. He was fond of it, and so was a neighbor, who after several years, talked him out of it. He bought his replacement in 1909, and since he was having the gun made to his order (chokes, bbl length, stock dimensions) he decided to go with the new "fluid steel" barrels. The stub twist gun unraveled several inches of the left barrel in the 1940s. (unknown if it was smokeless or BP ammo)

Its been a couple years since I last used my Grandfather's gun, but when I did, it performed flawlessly.

There will be NO steel fired through that gun in my lifetime, and my future heirs also know why. Its the best I can on that score.

I also will not put steel through my model 12. It was made in the 20s. Steel is the reason I bought an 870, in the mid 80s.

If you are in doubt about your Mossberg, why not ask Mossberg? They are still in business, last time I looked.

[Blindstitch]

bspillman,

If there are any problems with the barrel of your mossberg 500 A or C don't worry because there are tons of new barrels out there that will interchange in 15 seconds. The Mossberg 500 is a 50+ year old design with very little modifications since first built. You could essentially buy a barrel built today and have no worry.

[Creek Henry]

I am dead serious, Virg. We live an amazing time. If you want a new "63 1100 there are folks that buy these up, refurbish them and resell. Finding them is a few mouse clicks.

But, more to the point, we have more choices now than ever. Versmax, 300, SX2 and 3, inertia guns that did not exist when I was starting to hunt, long action recoilers, and more manufacturers than ever... And gunbroker to help us buy and sell anything we legally can. We also have more OEM mods and parts than ever PLUS more people refining guns than ever with better equipment.

All this is not free, but it is there and credit is easy to get nowadays too LOL.

I don't mean to be a buster, but I just rail against people that won't look around and see how great some things are in this new era. Gun and ammo technology is simply on a new level now.

I just wish quail hadn't virtually diappeared in my area in the past 25 years! Now that is a real problem. Getting any gun I want is not and I am thankful for that. As a kid, I couldn't even dream about the choices we have today.

[Virginian]

If the wild quail were still around you'd be hard pressed to fins a better gun than '60s Bernardelli SxS in 20 or 28 gauge. I'll take my 1100 LT if it's raining.

[RobinTN]

For me, screw in chokes mean "Modern".

[Virginian]

"...proven non destructive testing method..." Fluoroscopic bore scope. By looking you can only tell that it's Damascus. You might be able to see the rust, if it's far enough along.

Fluoroscopic testing bore testing cannot tell you anything about the weld integrity between ribbons of barrel material, and the potential issue with older barrels is corrosion that may have occurred in any microscopic voids due to black powder and/or corrosive primers. The only thing that "might" be able to see in there is radiography.