Lee does not recommend Federal primers

jackwillis · February 20, 2008, 01:27 PM

according to Lee's literature and to the person that answered the phone, Federal primers should not be used in their equipment due to their instability. Anyone notice that this holds true in the real world?

DaveInPA · February 20, 2008, 01:32 PM

I think it's generally accepted that CCI and Winchester primers are more resiliant and resistant to crushing in their priming tools.

Wildalaska · February 20, 2008, 01:38 PM

Gee, I use Fed 210Ms all the time with an RCBS tool to great success.

How about Federal doesn't recommend Lee tools

Funny, have you ever noticed that 90% of the reloading tool problem threads here involve Lee?

WildyougetwhatyoupayforAlaska ™

Super Dave · February 20, 2008, 01:53 PM

Someone told me that Lee and CCI are owned by the same company. Don't know if it is true or not.
Dave.

DaveInPA · February 20, 2008, 01:53 PM

Ahh another gear snob. Refreshing.

Musketeer · February 20, 2008, 02:20 PM

Quote:

I think it's generally accepted that CCI and Winchester primers are more resiliant and resistant to crushing in their priming tools.

Bingo. Of course if you would like to have them gang fire in the primer feed feel free to do as you wish.

FYI Wild, I have had no problems with my LeePro 1000 and I have loaded thousands of 10mm and 45Colt with it. Everything is a trade off and selling a Kidney 13 years ago to get the Dillon or other higher end press was not an option. It is not as quick at changing calibers but for the price and needs I have of it the Lee Pro works fine. If anyone would liek to send me a Dillon free of charge though I would happily accept it.

Wildalaska · February 20, 2008, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Ahh another gear snob. Refreshing.

Funny I dont see threads about Redding dies being out of spec, problems with X, problems with Y....but we do see that with Lee, neh?....if being a gear snob means buying quality gear, my nose is in the air.

WilduppitylittlefruitcakeiamAlaska ™

Darren007 · February 20, 2008, 03:33 PM

I have used Lee equipment with no problems... dies, the anniversary press, the scale works just fine although I now use a digital, and I actually prefer their powder measure over Reddings, which I also own.

But Im not a Redding hater....I like their dies and have them for several calibers and think Ill probabaly just stick with theirs from now on. I use their chamfer deburr tool, powder trickler, and am the proud owner of a T-7 turret press. I would ike to get their 2400 case trimmer as well since i think the RCBS one I have kinda sucks...

ojibweindian · February 20, 2008, 03:53 PM

Some of the Lee stuff is pretty good, some is worthless.

For example, I really like the Classic Cast single stage press. Also like their Hand Press. The Challenger press, in my experience, sucks. Bad. Same thing with their powder scale.

Their shell holders are fine and their priming tools are pretty good. Also like their case trimming stuff (as long as I don't have to trim 100+ cases at once).

shooter_john · February 20, 2008, 04:05 PM

I've had nothing but excellent results with Lee products too. I actually find myself picking up more Lee stuff as I get more experienced, because of its simplicity and ease of use. I load mostly rifle cartridges, so X00 rounds and hour is not an issue for me.
As a matter of fact, I load for my Savage 110FP in 2506 with Lee dies, mainly because they came with the rifle when I purchased it. Is it mere coincidence that it is my most accurate/ precise rifle... probably, but it sure doesn't make those 'crap' Lee dies look very bad either!

Oldphart · February 20, 2008, 04:27 PM

I use Lee presses, dies, powder measure and Auto-prime. Any time I find a problem I can usually trace it back to the nut on the lever... ME!! Even when I broke the lever once... it wasn't the fault of the lever, I pulled it the wrong way and Lee replaced it right away.

I suppose if I were loading a couple of thousand rounds a week I'd spring for a Dillon and research some way to motorize it. But I only load a hundred or so a month and I'd guess that most of us fall into that category too, so the Lee works quite well enough for us. As far as the quality of the ammo produced; It goes "bang" and it hits the x-ring often enough to satisfy me. What else do I need?

Both Dillon and RCBS replace broken parts free of charge while Lee (and probably some others) charge a very minimal fee. When I consider the original cost of the equipment I see that Dillon and RCBS simply charge the fee before they have to ship the part. In effect, they're using your money for free!

Dillon makes a good product. So does Maserati. I have no need for either of them.

DaveInPA · February 20, 2008, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Dillon makes a good product. So does Maserati. I have no need for either of them.

Bingo!

45Marlin carbine · February 20, 2008, 04:50 PM

I have 2 RCBS presses and Lee and RCBS dies and some other Lee equipment never a problem.

jackwillis · February 20, 2008, 05:11 PM

I didn't mean to start a brand war. I was primarily interested in the Federal primer issue. But on the other hand I am a Chevy man.

Sevens · February 20, 2008, 06:22 PM

In the real world, on my multi-colored bench with products from Lee, RCBS, Lyman, Hornady and others, I use the Lee press mounted Safety Prime. This is a priming system where you place a vertical punch in to your ram's shell holder holder and on the ram's up-stroke, it actuates a smaller ram that presses the primers in to place. You can change this smaller ram-- small or large depending on primer size. You can feel as the primer seats.

I've been using this tool for priming for twenty years and I've never had a primer discharge at my bench. EVER. I've used thousands of Winchester, CCI and Federal primers. I haven't had the occasion to use Remington, Wolf or any others, but I would happily try them if I got a good price on them.

I'm not sure why a Federal primer is more apt to explode in Lee's priming tools more than a Federal primer would explode in anyone else's tools, but one thing is for sure--the flat tray with the primers on them is designed so even if you Bubba'd the lever so extremely that you blew a primer, you wouldn't be detonating all the rest, like the vertical tube-fed systems. The tube feed priming systems are dangerous enough that they've come up with strips of primers to try and avoid the tube-bomb they created when they designed that system.

Also, for the record, CCI primers were for a very long time owned by Blount Industries, the same company that owns RCBS, Speer, Weaver, and other shooting/handloading products. These days, I have no idea who owns Blount products or if they are still owned by the same company. But I do know that Lee Precision doesn't own or hold interest in any company that makes primers.

Hawg · February 20, 2008, 07:51 PM

Federal primers will explode in anybody's tools under the right conditions. reason being Federal primers are softer than anyone elses. Lots of SASS shooters use them because their springs are too light to set off any primers other than Federal and yes some of them have their share of primer explosions with equipment other than Lee.

BigJimP · February 20, 2008, 07:55 PM

Federal primers are just softer - so you have to use a lot of caution if you're going to use them. If you get any resistance when you seat a primer - back off.

It has very little to do with the type of press you are using / but I would suggest you look at using CCI, Winchester or Remington primers instead of Federal - why take a chance ?

theoldgringo · February 20, 2008, 09:33 PM

Hawg hit the nail on the head. Difference is, Lee had the balls (and business sense) to warn their customers of potential danger and at the same time protecting itself from potential lawsuits. I have dies from Lee, Hornady, RCBS and Redding at my bench and, given there are differences from brand to brand regarding how they function, there's no way I can pick a completed bullet from one run and compare it to one from a different run (of a different cal.) and say this is a Redding bullet, or this is a Lee bullet. In fact I don't see the brand of dies used making much difference at all. I see the difference in reloading for precision shooting being in selection of the correct components, precise weighing of powder and brass prep. Since I have no experience with Lee other than dies I can't say any more except that anyone who claims he's (she's) only used the best, is admitting to gross naivete'.

bluetopper · February 20, 2008, 09:37 PM

Federal primers and my Lee deluxe turret press get along just fine, thank you.

jackwillis · February 20, 2008, 10:19 PM

well at this point, given that I started this thread, I want to thank y'all for your input. I bought 1000 cci small rifle primers (.204) after work today. I will keep my Federal primers and use them down the road when I have a lot more experience reloading. Again, I can't say enough about the wealth of knowledge and experience available to reloading babies like myself on this forum. Long live the internet!

Big Caliber · February 20, 2008, 10:55 PM

What about Federal primers in the handheld Lee Auto Prime? I've always used WLR's w/ no problems. I was about to crack open a block of 210m's I thought I was lucky to get, but now everything is on hold. I need immediate encouragement or discouragement, whichever you can offer.

Edward429451 · February 20, 2008, 11:09 PM

I have a Lee chamfer tool, and used to use the trimmer(s), that's it for Lee though. It's true, you hear about all sorts of problems with Lee stuff, and not about RCBS or Dillon etc. I'm sure you Lee guys can get Lee stuff to work if ya keep at it but if ya spend the extra buck you prolly save some headachs, lol.

I've had slight problems here n there but it was always operator induced.

Oh, to be fair, Lee's molds are ok if'n you baby them. I use quite a few of their moulds.

TexasSeaRay · February 20, 2008, 11:09 PM

Quote:

Funny I dont see threads about Redding dies being out of spec, problems with X, problems with Y....but we do see that with Lee, neh?....if being a gear snob means buying quality gear, my nose is in the air.

Funny thing about folks who think they're better than everyone else and brag about walking around with their nose in the air.

Birds tend to poop in those same noses. The poop runs down into the sinus cavities, and what then comes out of the mouth for a long time afterwards is just crap.

I've got a Lee Pro1000 that used to load almost a thousand rounds a week for me during the IPSC and law enforcement combat shooting competition days. I've had exactly one minor problem with it. A phone call to Lee and they overnighted me the part I needed, no charge. Press continues to operate like a well-oiled sewing machine ever since.

Also have a Lee Challenger that has loaded many, many a target round. Surprisingly, it uses Lee dies and powder from a Lee powder measure--and, gasp, even a Lee hand priming tool that I've had for twenty years and haven't broken yet.

Somehow with all this junk, I manage to load decent enough rounds to give me acceptable groups.

I've shot against a lot of Dillon snobs over the years that have "holier than thou" attitudes about their reloading equipment. I always enjoyed telling them at the end of the match, "Too bad your shooting isn't anywhere near the quality of your reloading equipment, huh?"

Maybe I'll unbox my old 550B and bolt it back on the bench so I can be a real shooter and knowledgeable reloader, too.

I know real shooters who load on Dillon, RCBS, Hornady, Lee, Forster. . . you name it. Most have more colors represented on their loading bench than there are colors in the rainbow. When we're at a range shooting, or at the clubhouse or at dinner, we talk about our loading data, results, experiences--good and bad--what works, what doesn't.

Some of us can afford to buy damn near anything in this world we want, and some of us can hardly afford to pay attention. We don't look down, or up, at our fellow shooters based on their choice of brand or brand preference.

We impress each other with our shooting, knowledge and experience.

But there's also a reason why there are a lot of questions about Lee equipment.

Lee equipment is a great entry point, pricewise, into the hobby of reloading. That means you have a lot of brand new people who have more questions than experience. Lack of experience can break anything, made by anybody. Call up the techs at RCBS or Dillon and ask them about "bonehead" mistakes made by their customers over the years.

Real shooters don't give a damn about colors, only the groups they produce with those colors.

Jeff

Wildalaska · February 21, 2008, 12:19 AM

Bruised ego?

WilddontbotherwhyclutterupthethreadAlaska TM

Walipala · February 21, 2008, 12:22 AM

Well Jack, Lee's Modern Reloading book spends several pages discussing this. It's not that Federals are less stable. According to him, some primers are just more destructive than others---and he explains briefly why. Federals aren't any more likely to go off than any other primers, but will cause more damage if they do (again, according to him).

He also says primers should never be stacked in a tube, but that's getting into something else.

February 20, 2008, 01:27 PM	#1
jackwillis Junior Member Join Date: January 23, 2008 Location: Los Osos, Ca. Posts: 12	Lee does not recommend Federal primers according to Lee's literature and to the person that answered the phone, Federal primers should not be used in their equipment due to their instability. Anyone notice that this holds true in the real world?

February 20, 2008, 04:05 PM	#10
shooter_john Senior Member Join Date: December 11, 2002 Location: ALABAMA Posts: 1,472	I've had nothing but excellent results with Lee products too. I actually find myself picking up more Lee stuff as I get more experienced, because of its simplicity and ease of use. I load mostly rifle cartridges, so X00 rounds and hour is not an issue for me. As a matter of fact, I load for my Savage 110FP in 2506 with Lee dies, mainly because they came with the rifle when I purchased it. Is it mere coincidence that it is my most accurate/ precise rifle... probably, but it sure doesn't make those 'crap' Lee dies look very bad either! __________________ TROTAC.com

February 20, 2008, 04:27 PM	#11
Oldphart Senior Member Join Date: May 19, 2004 Posts: 375	I use Lee presses, dies, powder measure and Auto-prime. Any time I find a problem I can usually trace it back to the nut on the lever... ME!! Even when I broke the lever once... it wasn't the fault of the lever, I pulled it the wrong way and Lee replaced it right away. I suppose if I were loading a couple of thousand rounds a week I'd spring for a Dillon and research some way to motorize it. But I only load a hundred or so a month and I'd guess that most of us fall into that category too, so the Lee works quite well enough for us. As far as the quality of the ammo produced; It goes "bang" and it hits the x-ring often enough to satisfy me. What else do I need? Both Dillon and RCBS replace broken parts free of charge while Lee (and probably some others) charge a very minimal fee. When I consider the original cost of the equipment I see that Dillon and RCBS simply charge the fee before they have to ship the part. In effect, they're using your money for free! Dillon makes a good product. So does Maserati. I have no need for either of them. __________________ There are no dangerous weapons, only dangerous people, and the most dangerous person of all is the one with nothing left to lose.

February 20, 2008, 06:22 PM	#15
Sevens Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 11,756	In the real world, on my multi-colored bench with products from Lee, RCBS, Lyman, Hornady and others, I use the Lee press mounted Safety Prime. This is a priming system where you place a vertical punch in to your ram's shell holder holder and on the ram's up-stroke, it actuates a smaller ram that presses the primers in to place. You can change this smaller ram-- small or large depending on primer size. You can feel as the primer seats. I've been using this tool for priming for twenty years and I've never had a primer discharge at my bench. EVER. I've used thousands of Winchester, CCI and Federal primers. I haven't had the occasion to use Remington, Wolf or any others, but I would happily try them if I got a good price on them. I'm not sure why a Federal primer is more apt to explode in Lee's priming tools more than a Federal primer would explode in anyone else's tools, but one thing is for sure--the flat tray with the primers on them is designed so even if you Bubba'd the lever so extremely that you blew a primer, you wouldn't be detonating all the rest, like the vertical tube-fed systems. The tube feed priming systems are dangerous enough that they've come up with strips of primers to try and avoid the tube-bomb they created when they designed that system. Also, for the record, CCI primers were for a very long time owned by Blount Industries, the same company that owns RCBS, Speer, Weaver, and other shooting/handloading products. These days, I have no idea who owns Blount products or if they are still owned by the same company. But I do know that Lee Precision doesn't own or hold interest in any company that makes primers. __________________ *Attention Brass rats and other reloaders:* I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.

February 20, 2008, 09:33 PM	#18
theoldgringo Member Join Date: January 3, 2008 Location: Central Plains Posts: 40	Federal primers will explode in anybody's tools under the right conditions. Hawg hit the nail on the head. Difference is, Lee had the balls (and business sense) to warn their customers of potential danger and at the same time protecting itself from potential lawsuits. I have dies from Lee, Hornady, RCBS and Redding at my bench and, given there are differences from brand to brand regarding how they function, there's no way I can pick a completed bullet from one run and compare it to one from a different run (of a different cal.) and say this is a Redding bullet, or this is a Lee bullet. In fact I don't see the brand of dies used making much difference at all. I see the difference in reloading for precision shooting being in selection of the correct components, precise weighing of powder and brass prep. Since I have no experience with Lee other than dies I can't say any more except that anyone who claims he's (she's) only used the best, is admitting to gross naivete'. Last edited by theoldgringo; February 20, 2008 at 11:06 PM.

February 20, 2008, 01:32 PM	#2
DaveInPA Senior Member Join Date: January 20, 2008 Location: Berks County, PA Posts: 1,106	I think it's generally accepted that CCI and Winchester primers are more resiliant and resistant to crushing in their priming tools.

February 20, 2008, 01:38 PM	#3
Wildalaska Junior member Join Date: November 25, 2002 Location: In my own little weird world in Anchorage, Alaska Posts: 14,172	Gee, I use Fed 210Ms all the time with an RCBS tool to great success. How about Federal doesn't recommend Lee tools Funny, have you ever noticed that 90% of the reloading tool problem threads here involve Lee? WildyougetwhatyoupayforAlaska ™

February 20, 2008, 01:53 PM	#4
Super Dave Member Join Date: December 26, 2007 Location: Mid-Michigan Posts: 33	Someone told me that Lee and CCI are owned by the same company. Don't know if it is true or not. Dave.

February 20, 2008, 03:33 PM	#8
Darren007 Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 2007 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,053	I have used Lee equipment with no problems... dies, the anniversary press, the scale works just fine although I now use a digital, and I actually prefer their powder measure over Reddings, which I also own. But Im not a Redding hater....I like their dies and have them for several calibers and think Ill probabaly just stick with theirs from now on. I use their chamfer deburr tool, powder trickler, and am the proud owner of a T-7 turret press. I would ike to get their 2400 case trimmer as well since i think the RCBS one I have kinda sucks...

February 20, 2008, 03:53 PM	#9
ojibweindian Senior Member Join Date: April 20, 2000 Location: Huntsville, Alabama Posts: 1,198	Some of the Lee stuff is pretty good, some is worthless. For example, I really like the Classic Cast single stage press. Also like their Hand Press. The Challenger press, in my experience, sucks. Bad. Same thing with their powder scale. Their shell holders are fine and their priming tools are pretty good. Also like their case trimming stuff (as long as I don't have to trim 100+ cases at once).

February 20, 2008, 04:50 PM	#13
45Marlin carbine Junior member Join Date: January 26, 2007 Location: South-Western North Carolina Posts: 1,124	I have 2 RCBS presses and Lee and RCBS dies and some other Lee equipment never a problem.

February 20, 2008, 05:11 PM	#14
jackwillis Junior Member Join Date: January 23, 2008 Location: Los Osos, Ca. Posts: 12	I didn't mean to start a brand war. I was primarily interested in the Federal primer issue. But on the other hand I am a Chevy man.

February 20, 2008, 07:51 PM	#16
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,190	Federal primers will explode in anybody's tools under the right conditions. reason being Federal primers are softer than anyone elses. Lots of SASS shooters use them because their springs are too light to set off any primers other than Federal and yes some of them have their share of primer explosions with equipment other than Lee.

February 20, 2008, 07:55 PM	#17
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	Federal primers are just softer - so you have to use a lot of caution if you're going to use them. If you get any resistance when you seat a primer - back off. It has very little to do with the type of press you are using / but I would suggest you look at using CCI, Winchester or Remington primers instead of Federal - why take a chance ?

February 20, 2008, 09:37 PM	#19
bluetopper Senior Member Join Date: December 16, 2005 Location: Northeast TX Posts: 1,197	Federal primers and my Lee deluxe turret press get along just fine, thank you.

February 20, 2008, 10:19 PM	#20
jackwillis Junior Member Join Date: January 23, 2008 Location: Los Osos, Ca. Posts: 12	well at this point, given that I started this thread, I want to thank y'all for your input. I bought 1000 cci small rifle primers (.204) after work today. I will keep my Federal primers and use them down the road when I have a lot more experience reloading. Again, I can't say enough about the wealth of knowledge and experience available to reloading babies like myself on this forum. Long live the internet!

February 20, 2008, 10:55 PM	#21
Big Caliber Senior Member Join Date: October 10, 2006 Location: S. CA Posts: 421	What about Federal primers in the handheld Lee Auto Prime? I've always used WLR's w/ no problems. I was about to crack open a block of 210m's I thought I was lucky to get, but now everything is on hold. I need immediate encouragement or discouragement, whichever you can offer.

February 20, 2008, 11:09 PM	#22
Edward429451 Junior member Join Date: November 12, 2000 Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado Posts: 9,494	I have a Lee chamfer tool, and used to use the trimmer(s), that's it for Lee though. It's true, you hear about all sorts of problems with Lee stuff, and not about RCBS or Dillon etc. I'm sure you Lee guys can get Lee stuff to work if ya keep at it but if ya spend the extra buck you prolly save some headachs, lol. I've had slight problems here n there but it was always operator induced. Oh, to be fair, Lee's molds are ok if'n you baby them. I use quite a few of their moulds.

February 21, 2008, 12:19 AM	#24
Wildalaska Junior member Join Date: November 25, 2002 Location: In my own little weird world in Anchorage, Alaska Posts: 14,172	Bruised ego? WilddontbotherwhyclutterupthethreadAlaska TM

February 21, 2008, 12:22 AM	#25
Walipala Member Join Date: September 24, 2007 Posts: 49	Well Jack, Lee's Modern Reloading book spends several pages discussing this. It's not that Federals are less stable. According to him, some primers are just more destructive than others---and he explains briefly why. Federals aren't any more likely to go off than any other primers, but will cause more damage if they do (again, according to him). He also says primers should never be stacked in a tube, but that's getting into something else.