At what point - if any - do you leave the gun in the safe? - Page 3

Scout · February 24, 2011, 12:15 PM

I don't think it's a very good idea to announce that you're armed and the cops are coming, etc. If someone is in the house I think you should take a position, quietly and kill the intruder(s) when he presents himself.

Shootin Chef · February 24, 2011, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Think about it: go looking for an armed intruder that may hear your approach and pick an ambush spot?

That's why you learn and practice good room clearing technique for your home, and try to think about tactical movement when you set up your furniture.
Never leave your laser on, and never ever keep your flashlight on when moving through the house. Gun hand up on the crossed under wrist of the light holding hand with hands back to back. You can then toggle the light from the butt end on and off, click-check and click-off, then move all while keeps a stable platform to shoot from.

That's how I was taught anyway, and that's how SWAT and the sheriffs dept. does/did it.
Chef

gearhounds · February 24, 2011, 12:39 PM

Mods- forgive the language. Just copspeak for a bad guy.

OK, we could "what if" this forever, but what if the "intruder" is someone you know? Or an injured driver looking for aid? Or a dumb kid doing it on a dare? Most likely, none of the above. How are you going to identify your threat? Start shooting, or challenge when you see them? Reaction time measured in milliseconds may not be enough. My challenge will be made from the forbidding dark unknown, followed by silence. An intruder will expect the owner to be armed and/or dangerous regardless.

I know not everyone has the luxury of reasonably fast police response, and to rely solely on it is equally dangerous. Each scenario will be different. Dogs, security systems (when activated), camera's, etc can all help, but the most important factor should be to have a plan and practice it.

chef- I bet swat trained you to do all these things with a team, or at least with a partner. I also bet the training applied to breaching and taking a known or legitemately suspected hostile environment, not as a single resource. I agree, a light or laser should be only be used to gain a tactical advantage, not the other way around.

Glenn E. Meyer · February 24, 2011, 03:31 PM

You can trigger from your safe room and/or various other commonly used places in the house.

This is in response to the wave of posts on an intruder.

1. I'd challenge
2. I'd ID
3. NO ID - darn it, he is a demon and the Castle Doctrine protects me from shooting a mistaken idiot who entered the house.
4. Silently ambush them
5. Rack the shotgun repeatedly -

6. You are a coward and contributing to the fall of civilization if you don't shoot'em dead.

How about - you hear someone doing something to the door and you can start the whole showdown by a very loud alarm that calls the cops.

That way, maybe, you can avoid being a discussion and story.

That's my tac tip for the day, given the recent shoot'em up debates.

Shootin Chef · February 24, 2011, 03:44 PM

Quote:

chef- I bet swat trained you to do all these things with a team, or at least with a partner. I also bet the training applied to breaching and taking a known or legitemately suspected hostile environment, not as a single resource. I agree, a light or laser should be only be used to gain a tactical advantage, not the other way around.

I can't say Gear, my father was the SWAT officer (in his younger days) not me, so you may be correct. That's just how he instructed me to use a flashlight when doing a dark room clear.

gearhounds · February 24, 2011, 04:33 PM

No doubt, a good light is an invaluable tool. I never have less than 2 on me at any given time, and 3 when on duty, day or night.

Daugherty16 · February 25, 2011, 11:17 AM

A dog is your best early warning system, unless your yard and drive are wired with cameras and trip sensors. Most dogs will warn you long BEFORE the BG is actually in the house, giving you those necessary precious seconds or minutes to gather family, arm, barricade, and call. Not knocking alarms, but they only trip when the BG is already IN the house. Also, even a lap dog can make a lot of noise, and if you know your dog, there is a play bark, an annoyed bark for the squirrels, and a danger bark for intruders. Definitely different sounds. Big dogs may not be practical depending on where you live, but they add a serious physical threat to the would-be intruder.

Gun right beside the head is generally considered very bad juju. Too easy to grab before you actually wake up and shake out the cobwebs, grab it while in a nightmare/dream, etc. Really, the two steps to cross your room could save lives you care about, and won't seriously impact your self defense unless the BG is already in your room. In which case, the two steps don't matter, as your options may be limited to a furious physical attack on the BG.

My situation: because everyone sleeps on the 2nd floor but kids are down the hall, my plan is wife on cell ready to call 911, me hugging open doorway, listening, assessing, and covering stairs, will gather kids if situation assessment allows, and then the barricade-in-the-bedroom is in play. Otherwise, no one will come up the stairs. 13-rd .45 auto, with 12 round spare mag + 500 lumen torch, should present a barrier to climbing the stairs until the cops can arrive.

Would prefer 12ga but safe is in my office, between BR and kids rooms. Besides, the pistol holds a lot of rounds. Unless i remember to unblock the mag, shottie only holds 3.

trustygun25 · February 25, 2011, 11:45 AM

I always reach for the night stand, i would rather have it and not need it then need it and not have it.

cnimrod · February 25, 2011, 06:17 PM

and not need it but maybe a better question is how do you carry it as you are searching your house? Having been through this experience once - I'm the only one home - what the heck was that noise? I still had the well publicized case of the father shooting his daughter who hid in a closet and jumped out to scare him in my mind.
Now i have a dog, much easier to let him go first

Shootin Chef · February 25, 2011, 08:38 PM

I was seeing a girl a few months ago who decided to pop over for a visit without letting me know. I was at my computer in a spare bedroom when I heard the back door open (I had left it unlocked), my dog going nuts (as he always does with other people), and I came around the corner and ended up almost poking her in the nose with my shotgun.
Always up, always ready to at least challenge with the barrel, if not fire.

I'm not interested in shooting anyone, I honestly had not even racked a shell into the chamber, and it wasn't really her fault since I had let her just walk in before (although I knew she was coming then).

I'm going to react the same way every time. Grab my HD weapon, and go on the offensive to make sure I hold the center area of my house, which is designed like the hub of a wheel.

February 24, 2011, 12:15 PM	#51
Scout Senior Member Join Date: August 9, 2009 Location: Central Florida Posts: 510	I don't think it's a very good idea to announce that you're armed and the cops are coming, etc. If someone is in the house I think you should take a position, quietly and kill the intruder(s) when he presents himself. __________________ God bless the U.S. Cavalry

February 24, 2011, 03:31 PM	#54
Glenn E. Meyer Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2000 Posts: 20,064	Get a very loud alarm that ... You can trigger from your safe room and/or various other commonly used places in the house. This is in response to the wave of posts on an intruder. 1. I'd challenge 2. I'd ID 3. NO ID - darn it, he is a demon and the Castle Doctrine protects me from shooting a mistaken idiot who entered the house. 4. Silently ambush them 5. Rack the shotgun repeatedly - 6. You are a coward and contributing to the fall of civilization if you don't shoot'em dead. How about - you hear someone doing something to the door and you can start the whole showdown by a very loud alarm that calls the cops. That way, maybe, you can avoid being a discussion and story. That's my tac tip for the day, given the recent shoot'em up debates. __________________ NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc. - Aux Armes, Citoyens

February 25, 2011, 11:17 AM	#57
Daugherty16 Senior Member Join Date: July 10, 2008 Location: Live Free or Die state Posts: 259	Man's Best Friend A dog is your best early warning system, unless your yard and drive are wired with cameras and trip sensors. Most dogs will warn you long BEFORE the BG is actually in the house, giving you those necessary precious seconds or minutes to gather family, arm, barricade, and call. Not knocking alarms, but they only trip when the BG is already IN the house. Also, even a lap dog can make a lot of noise, and if you know your dog, there is a play bark, an annoyed bark for the squirrels, and a danger bark for intruders. Definitely different sounds. Big dogs may not be practical depending on where you live, but they add a serious physical threat to the would-be intruder. Gun right beside the head is generally considered very bad juju. Too easy to grab before you actually wake up and shake out the cobwebs, grab it while in a nightmare/dream, etc. Really, the two steps to cross your room could save lives you care about, and won't seriously impact your self defense unless the BG is already in your room. In which case, the two steps don't matter, as your options may be limited to a furious physical attack on the BG. My situation: because everyone sleeps on the 2nd floor but kids are down the hall, my plan is wife on cell ready to call 911, me hugging open doorway, listening, assessing, and covering stairs, will gather kids if situation assessment allows, and then the barricade-in-the-bedroom is in play. Otherwise, no one will come up the stairs. 13-rd .45 auto, with 12 round spare mag + 500 lumen torch, should present a barrier to climbing the stairs until the cops can arrive. Would prefer 12ga but safe is in my office, between BR and kids rooms. Besides, the pistol holds a lot of rounds. Unless i remember to unblock the mag, shottie only holds 3. __________________ "To my mind it is wholly irresponsible to go into the world incapable of preventing violence, injury, crime, and death. How feeble is the mindset to accept defenselessness... How pathetic." - - Ted Nugent "Cogito, Ergo Armitum Sum" - (I Think, Therefore I Am Armed)- - anon.

February 25, 2011, 11:45 AM	#58
trustygun25 Member Join Date: February 7, 2011 Location: Newnan, GA Posts: 76	I always reach for the night stand, i would rather have it and not need it then need it and not have it. __________________ Si vis pacem, para bellum-"If you wish for peace, prepare for war"

February 25, 2011, 06:17 PM	#59
cnimrod Senior Member Join Date: September 24, 2009 Location: NJ/NY Posts: 152	yes better to have it... and not need it but maybe a better question is how do you carry it as you are searching your house? Having been through this experience once - I'm the only one home - what the heck was that noise? I still had the well publicized case of the father shooting his daughter who hid in a closet and jumped out to scare him in my mind. Now i have a dog, much easier to let him go first

February 24, 2011, 12:39 PM	#53
gearhounds Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 2011 Location: M'burg WV Posts: 332	Mods- forgive the language. Just copspeak for a bad guy. OK, we could "what if" this forever, but what if the "intruder" is someone you know? Or an injured driver looking for aid? Or a dumb kid doing it on a dare? Most likely, none of the above. How are you going to identify your threat? Start shooting, or challenge when you see them? Reaction time measured in milliseconds may not be enough. My challenge will be made from the forbidding dark unknown, followed by silence. An intruder will expect the owner to be armed and/or dangerous regardless. I know not everyone has the luxury of reasonably fast police response, and to rely solely on it is equally dangerous. Each scenario will be different. Dogs, security systems (when activated), camera's, etc can all help, but the most important factor should be to have a plan and practice it. chef- I bet swat trained you to do all these things with a team, or at least with a partner. I also bet the training applied to breaching and taking a known or legitemately suspected hostile environment, not as a single resource. I agree, a light or laser should be only be used to gain a tactical advantage, not the other way around.

February 24, 2011, 04:33 PM	#56
gearhounds Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 2011 Location: M'burg WV Posts: 332	No doubt, a good light is an invaluable tool. I never have less than 2 on me at any given time, and 3 when on duty, day or night.

February 25, 2011, 08:38 PM	#60
Shootin Chef Senior Member Join Date: January 30, 2011 Location: Columbia, SC Posts: 121	I was seeing a girl a few months ago who decided to pop over for a visit without letting me know. I was at my computer in a spare bedroom when I heard the back door open (I had left it unlocked), my dog going nuts (as he always does with other people), and I came around the corner and ended up almost poking her in the nose with my shotgun. Always up, always ready to at least challenge with the barrel, if not fire. I'm not interested in shooting anyone, I honestly had not even racked a shell into the chamber, and it wasn't really her fault since I had let her just walk in before (although I knew she was coming then). I'm going to react the same way every time. Grab my HD weapon, and go on the offensive to make sure I hold the center area of my house, which is designed like the hub of a wheel.