Dillon 650 or Hornady LNL AP?

diowk · April 19, 2009, 11:12 PM

I cant decide whether the dillon is worth the extra coin. I will be using it for 45acp rounds and nothing else. All I need it for is to feed my 1911 because I cant afford to shoot the factory ammo all the time. All I want is something that is reliable and smooth. Please post your opinions on which press would be best for what I need it for. Thanks people.

Rembrandt · April 20, 2009, 05:49 AM

Go blue.....Dillon with case feeder is a little money but well worth it.

WESHOOT2 · April 20, 2009, 11:37 AM

XL650 with casefeeder, roller handle, and powder-check station.

The Hornady is a nice unit, but not quite the production unit like the 650,.
Still good, though, and cheaper.

I don't have the L-N-L (although I've helped some folks with theirs); I have the XL650.
And two LEEs and a Lyman and a Bonanza.

David Wile · April 20, 2009, 12:42 PM

Hey Diowk,

Forget any crap you get from folks like "Go Blue (or Red) and never look back." That isn't information. It isn't even educated opinion. It is just plain crap and not even worth the value of good manure. Find folks who have the Dillon 650 and the Hornady L&L AP and ask them to show you how the machine work. Don't just watch for five minutes - watch each machine for five hours or even more to see what really happens over time. See how dies are changed. Ask how much things cost. Chances are that some folks will invite you to load some of your own ammo on their machines. Take them up on it.

Do not listen to anyone tell you their machine is the best. Those folks are probably the ones who are locked in their world of theirs is best even if they never saw the other machines. Do your homework. Evaluate the machines in the most objective manner you are able to do so. Then buy your machine based on your own well informed and objective evaluation. I have had one of the two machines you asked about, but I won't even bother to say mine is better than the other, and I will not even state which one I have. I have used them both and do prefer the one I have, but that does not mean someone else would be wrong in choosing the machine I did not choose. I can give reasons why I chose the machine I have, but my reasons may not be worth the same value to you and your needs. Also, don't let anyone tell you the Hornady is not the production machine like the Dillon. That, too, is crap. Both of those machines were designed for production, and I would submit to you that both machines are capable of making ammo faster than most of the owners of the machines are capable of operating in a safe and consistant manner. I will gladly admit that both of those machines can load faster than I can operate the machines safely. That doesn't mean I can't load faster - it means that I can't load faster in a safe manner while insuring quality control. Then again, a lot of folks seem to be more interested in "production" than quality control. Me, I'll take quality control.

One more thing, don't buy the Hornady machine just because you get some free bullets. You will have the machine long years after the free bullets are gone, and it is far more important to buy the machine that you think is best for you over your lifetime rather than the lure of some free bullets for the short present time. If you do happen to choose the Hornady machine, then think of the free bullets as icing on the cake.

Good luck in your quest, and

Best wishes,
Dave Wile

hornady · April 20, 2009, 01:07 PM

+1 to wile. Good points. The only thing I will add. Do you really need an auto progressive press. Don’t fall into the trap you are not a reloader if you don’t have the latest or greatest press. I have used a single stage press for 40 years and am very happy with it. And there are a lot of guy on here that swear by the Lee presses. It all boils down to how much you are willing to pay and how fast you want to load. I am retired so I have more time. But I load 9 different caliber’s and always have ammo on hand.

pbratton · April 20, 2009, 02:19 PM

My 650 with the powder check at station 3 is the best thing ever.

JCS1 · April 20, 2009, 02:31 PM

Although I have been reloading for over 40 years also. My only problem is finding any one around here with either machine. The only progressive machine I can find is a Star and you have to manually index it.
I figure both of the machines will do what there companies say they will do. What I would like to see and hear about is what the users say about there machine and what improvement would make it a better machine. Cheaper and better improvements.

Shoney · April 20, 2009, 03:03 PM

QUESTION??????
How can a person who has experience on only one brand of machine, say their brand is better???

I own both an LNL AP and a 550, and have loaded extensively on a buddies 650, and he has loaded extensively on my LNL. When people were discussing the runout (concentricity) potential of the progressives, my buddy and I embarked on our own testing.

We used the same set of dies for each rifle cartridge, and loaded 50 of each on the three machines. The LNL had noticably and measurably better concentricity. We also did a few on our single stage presses, but none were as good as the LNL. Several others have also reported the same.

After several years of my buddy harassing me about "blue is better", he told me with a sheepish grin that he had sold his 650 and purchased the LNL.

Nuf said! Unless you want me to list several other reasons why the LNL is better.

dlb435 · April 20, 2009, 03:13 PM

How much ammo are you going to be loading? If it's not more than 200-500 rounds a week, you may do just as well with a Dillon 550B without the case feeder. If you're going to be reloading a lot of ammo the Dillon 650 w/ case feeder is a good choice, but so is the Hornady. I do less than 200 rounds a week (on average) and I'm happy with my old Dillon 450. A single stage press was just too slow with 200 rounds to do, but I felt the cost of the 650 was a bit high to do only 200 rounds at a time.
I think that matching the press you want to your needs is the key thing here. If I only needed 20 rounds at a time, I'd still have only the single stage press.

David Wile · April 20, 2009, 05:09 PM

Hey folks,

I would also go so far as to suggest that most reloaders would not need the shell feeder on either the Dillon or the Hornady machines. With either machine, you can really load a lot of ammo very quickly. I don't think the shell feeder is as much of an asset to overall production throughput considering the cost of the feeder, and there is also the gosh awful noise the feeders make. I can see where it may be beneficial to some folks requirements, but I doubt if most of us would benefit as much by its addition.

Best wishes,
Dave Wile

Ninth and Plum · April 23, 2009, 01:51 AM

I have never used a LNL but I will say that I am very happy with the way my 650 works. I have not had to change out to a different caliber yet so I don't know how long that will take or how nice or much of a headache it will be. I have loaded a few thousand 9mm rounds on it though and not had to do any adjustments after the initial settings. I also did alot of research before buying and for me the 650 seemed the way to go.

Waldog · April 23, 2009, 08:19 AM

David Wile's post is good advice!!

Like Shoney, I have loaded on both. I bought the LNL. It's a great press! Nothing wrong with the 650 though. I just liked the ergonomics and operation of the LNL better.

Alleykat · April 23, 2009, 10:20 AM

I was just about to seriously contemplate ol' Dave's hyperverbose advice when I ran across that ridiculous post about not getting the case feeder. Anybody suggesting not using the case feeder has never loaded on a Dillon 650 and doesn't know jack about either press, in my HUMBLE opinion! Whichever press you get (they're both good), GET THE CASEFEEDER!!!

If you're not going to get a casefeeder, get a 550!!

sophijo · April 23, 2009, 05:45 PM

You moved away from Montana, and now you want us to trust your judgement??!!

David Wile · April 23, 2009, 08:36 PM

Hey Alleycat,

You are one cruel son-of-a-gun. I'm not sure what "hyperverbose" means, but I suspect it does not bode well of me. I'm going to have to think for a while to see if I can come up with something to throw back at you. Just give me a little while.

In the meantime, let me comment on your blasting me about not getting a case feeder for a progressive. I thought I was pretty lazy, but you may have me beat. Anyone who cannot put his own cases in a progressive machine is probably lazy enough to get someone else to chew his food for him. (Hey, that's not too bad for an insult, is it?).

I really am just kidding you about our different takes on the case feeder. A friend of mine has had a Dillon 650 for a long time, and a few years ago he got the case feeder for it. You are wrong about my never having loaded on a 650 and not knowing jack about either press. I have loaded quite a bit on his press before the case feeder and even a bit after he got the case feeder, and I also have owned the Hornady L&L AP since they first came on the market about 15 years ago.

I'm not saying that no one should buy a case feeder. I am saying that folks should check them out first hand before they jump into buying one. I don't like them for a couple of reasons. They are really quite noisy to me, but my friend doesn't seem to mind it. It also was pretty expensive to me, and I did not think it seemed to improve his throughput all that much. That's my opinion, but quite frankly, my friend's opinion is just the opposite of mine.

I have heard of some folks getting bullet feeders also, and I just cannot imagine that. I don't find a need for a case feeder or a bullet feeder for me, but I can understand that some folks have different ideas than I and make different decisions. My only caveat is that folks actually try them before spending the money for them. Then if you like them, by all means go for it.

Best wishes,
Dave Wile

magstang1 · April 23, 2009, 08:48 PM

I load pistols on my lnl ap, and I have no desire for a case feeder. My mental process is: Insert new case, seat the primer. Pull the handle until the shellplate advances (click) set the bullet on the appropriate case, run the ram to the top. Repeat. With a smooth touch on the ram I can't see how the case feeder would speed the operation that much. My right hand is on the handle. my left hand either has an empty case in it, or a bullet. Steady operation, no fumbling.

View Poll Results: dillon 650 or hornady lnl ap?
Dillon 650	12	30.77%
Hornady LNL AP	27	69.23%
Voters: 39. You may not vote on this poll

April 19, 2009, 11:12 PM	#1
diowk Member Join Date: April 19, 2009 Posts: 31	Dillon 650 or Hornady LNL AP? I cant decide whether the dillon is worth the extra coin. I will be using it for 45acp rounds and nothing else. All I need it for is to feed my 1911 because I cant afford to shoot the factory ammo all the time. All I want is something that is reliable and smooth. Please post your opinions on which press would be best for what I need it for. Thanks people.

April 20, 2009, 11:37 AM	#3
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	not guessing XL650 with casefeeder, roller handle, and powder-check station. The Hornady is a nice unit, but not quite the production unit like the 650,. Still good, though, and cheaper. I don't have the L-N-L (although I've helped some folks with theirs); I have the XL650. And two LEEs and a Lyman and a Bonanza. __________________ . "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"

April 20, 2009, 12:42 PM	#4
David Wile Senior Member Join Date: June 14, 2001 Location: Mechanicsburg, PA Posts: 585	Hey Diowk, Forget any crap you get from folks like "Go Blue (or Red) and never look back." That isn't information. It isn't even educated opinion. It is just plain crap and not even worth the value of good manure. Find folks who have the Dillon 650 and the Hornady L&L AP and ask them to show you how the machine work. Don't just watch for five minutes - watch each machine for five hours or even more to see what really happens over time. See how dies are changed. Ask how much things cost. Chances are that some folks will invite you to load some of your own ammo on their machines. Take them up on it. Do not listen to anyone tell you their machine is the best. Those folks are probably the ones who are locked in their world of theirs is best even if they never saw the other machines. Do your homework. Evaluate the machines in the most objective manner you are able to do so. Then buy your machine based on your own well informed and objective evaluation. I have had one of the two machines you asked about, but I won't even bother to say mine is better than the other, and I will not even state which one I have. I have used them both and do prefer the one I have, but that does not mean someone else would be wrong in choosing the machine I did not choose. I can give reasons why I chose the machine I have, but my reasons may not be worth the same value to you and your needs. Also, don't let anyone tell you the Hornady is not the production machine like the Dillon. That, too, is crap. Both of those machines were designed for production, and I would submit to you that both machines are capable of making ammo faster than most of the owners of the machines are capable of operating in a safe and consistant manner. I will gladly admit that both of those machines can load faster than I can operate the machines safely. That doesn't mean I can't load faster - it means that I can't load faster in a safe manner while insuring quality control. Then again, a lot of folks seem to be more interested in "production" than quality control. Me, I'll take quality control. One more thing, don't buy the Hornady machine just because you get some free bullets. You will have the machine long years after the free bullets are gone, and it is far more important to buy the machine that you think is best for you over your lifetime rather than the lure of some free bullets for the short present time. If you do happen to choose the Hornady machine, then think of the free bullets as icing on the cake. Good luck in your quest, and Best wishes, Dave Wile Last edited by David Wile; April 20, 2009 at 12:57 PM.

April 20, 2009, 02:31 PM	#7
JCS1 Member Join Date: February 20, 2009 Location: Bloomington, In. Posts: 37	That pretty well sums it up. Although I have been reloading for over 40 years also. My only problem is finding any one around here with either machine. The only progressive machine I can find is a Star and you have to manually index it. I figure both of the machines will do what there companies say they will do. What I would like to see and hear about is what the users say about there machine and what improvement would make it a better machine. Cheaper and better improvements. __________________ John NRA Endowment Member Reloading 40+ years *I miss my wife but my aim is getting better.*

April 20, 2009, 05:49 AM	#2
Rembrandt Senior Member Join Date: August 10, 2002 Posts: 2,108	Go blue.....Dillon with case feeder is a little money but well worth it.

April 20, 2009, 01:07 PM	#5
hornady Senior Member Join Date: April 6, 2009 Location: SWPA Posts: 428	+1 to wile. Good points. The only thing I will add. Do you really need an auto progressive press. Don’t fall into the trap you are not a reloader if you don’t have the latest or greatest press. I have used a single stage press for 40 years and am very happy with it. And there are a lot of guy on here that swear by the Lee presses. It all boils down to how much you are willing to pay and how fast you want to load. I am retired so I have more time. But I load 9 different caliber’s and always have ammo on hand.

April 20, 2009, 02:19 PM	#6
pbratton Senior Member Join Date: August 29, 2007 Location: Sugar Land, Texas Posts: 171	My 650 with the powder check at station 3 is the best thing ever.

April 20, 2009, 03:03 PM	#8
Shoney Senior Member Join Date: February 21, 2002 Location: Transplanted from Montana Posts: 2,311	QUESTION?????? How can a person who has experience on only one brand of machine, say their brand is better??? I own both an LNL AP and a 550, and have loaded extensively on a buddies 650, and he has loaded extensively on my LNL. When people were discussing the runout (concentricity) potential of the progressives, my buddy and I embarked on our own testing. We used the same set of dies for each rifle cartridge, and loaded 50 of each on the three machines. The LNL had noticably and measurably better concentricity. We also did a few on our single stage presses, but none were as good as the LNL. Several others have also reported the same. After several years of my buddy harassing me about "blue is better", he told me with a sheepish grin that he had sold his 650 and purchased the LNL. Nuf said! Unless you want me to list several other reasons why the LNL is better. __________________ I pledge allegiance to the Flag - - -, and to the Republic for which it stands….Our Forefathers were brilliant for giving us a Republic, not a democracy! Do you know the difference??? and WHY?http://www.wallbuilders.com/LIBissue...les.asp?id=111

April 20, 2009, 03:13 PM	#9
dlb435 Senior Member Join Date: January 26, 2009 Posts: 654	How much ammo are you going to be loading? If it's not more than 200-500 rounds a week, you may do just as well with a Dillon 550B without the case feeder. If you're going to be reloading a lot of ammo the Dillon 650 w/ case feeder is a good choice, but so is the Hornady. I do less than 200 rounds a week (on average) and I'm happy with my old Dillon 450. A single stage press was just too slow with 200 rounds to do, but I felt the cost of the 650 was a bit high to do only 200 rounds at a time. I think that matching the press you want to your needs is the key thing here. If I only needed 20 rounds at a time, I'd still have only the single stage press.

April 20, 2009, 05:09 PM	#10
David Wile Senior Member Join Date: June 14, 2001 Location: Mechanicsburg, PA Posts: 585	Hey folks, I would also go so far as to suggest that most reloaders would not need the shell feeder on either the Dillon or the Hornady machines. With either machine, you can really load a lot of ammo very quickly. I don't think the shell feeder is as much of an asset to overall production throughput considering the cost of the feeder, and there is also the gosh awful noise the feeders make. I can see where it may be beneficial to some folks requirements, but I doubt if most of us would benefit as much by its addition. Best wishes, Dave Wile

April 23, 2009, 01:51 AM	#11
Ninth and Plum Member Join Date: July 14, 2008 Posts: 25	I have never used a LNL but I will say that I am very happy with the way my 650 works. I have not had to change out to a different caliber yet so I don't know how long that will take or how nice or much of a headache it will be. I have loaded a few thousand 9mm rounds on it though and not had to do any adjustments after the initial settings. I also did alot of research before buying and for me the 650 seemed the way to go.

April 23, 2009, 08:19 AM	#12
Waldog Senior Member Join Date: March 28, 2007 Location: SOCAL Posts: 359	David Wile's post is good advice!! Like Shoney, I have loaded on both. I bought the LNL. It's a great press! Nothing wrong with the 650 though. I just liked the ergonomics and operation of the LNL better. __________________ I am the Christian Conservative that CNN warned you about!! “Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance and the gospel of envy.” Winston Churchill

April 23, 2009, 10:20 AM	#13
Alleykat Junior member Join Date: July 26, 2007 Posts: 3,668	I was just about to seriously contemplate ol' Dave's hyperverbose advice when I ran across that ridiculous post about not getting the case feeder. Anybody suggesting not using the case feeder has never loaded on a Dillon 650 and doesn't know jack about either press, in my HUMBLE opinion! Whichever press you get (they're both good), GET THE CASEFEEDER!!! If you're not going to get a casefeeder, get a 550!!

April 23, 2009, 05:45 PM	#14
sophijo Senior Member Join Date: June 28, 2004 Posts: 666	Shoney You moved away from Montana, and now you want us to trust your judgement??!!

April 23, 2009, 08:36 PM	#15
David Wile Senior Member Join Date: June 14, 2001 Location: Mechanicsburg, PA Posts: 585	Hey Alleycat, You are one cruel son-of-a-gun. I'm not sure what "hyperverbose" means, but I suspect it does not bode well of me. I'm going to have to think for a while to see if I can come up with something to throw back at you. Just give me a little while. In the meantime, let me comment on your blasting me about not getting a case feeder for a progressive. I thought I was pretty lazy, but you may have me beat. Anyone who cannot put his own cases in a progressive machine is probably lazy enough to get someone else to chew his food for him. (Hey, that's not too bad for an insult, is it?). I really am just kidding you about our different takes on the case feeder. A friend of mine has had a Dillon 650 for a long time, and a few years ago he got the case feeder for it. You are wrong about my never having loaded on a 650 and not knowing jack about either press. I have loaded quite a bit on his press before the case feeder and even a bit after he got the case feeder, and I also have owned the Hornady L&L AP since they first came on the market about 15 years ago. I'm not saying that no one should buy a case feeder. I am saying that folks should check them out first hand before they jump into buying one. I don't like them for a couple of reasons. They are really quite noisy to me, but my friend doesn't seem to mind it. It also was pretty expensive to me, and I did not think it seemed to improve his throughput all that much. That's my opinion, but quite frankly, my friend's opinion is just the opposite of mine. I have heard of some folks getting bullet feeders also, and I just cannot imagine that. I don't find a need for a case feeder or a bullet feeder for me, but I can understand that some folks have different ideas than I and make different decisions. My only caveat is that folks actually try them before spending the money for them. Then if you like them, by all means go for it. Best wishes, Dave Wile

April 23, 2009, 08:48 PM	#16
magstang1 Member Join Date: January 3, 2008 Posts: 40	I load pistols on my lnl ap, and I have no desire for a case feeder. My mental process is: Insert new case, seat the primer. Pull the handle until the shellplate advances (click) set the bullet on the appropriate case, run the ram to the top. Repeat. With a smooth touch on the ram I can't see how the case feeder would speed the operation that much. My right hand is on the handle. my left hand either has an empty case in it, or a bullet. Steady operation, no fumbling.