Kahr PM9 1st round fails to feed

fredeee · March 14, 2011, 06:33 AM

Wondering if anyone else has a similar problem. I have a Kahr PM9 that's less than a year old. Since day one, if you load the magazine to it's max and rack the slide, the 1st round jams in the magazine and never feeds into the chamber, essentially keeping the slide open and a round stuck.

According to their manual, Kahr insists that you're supposed to chamber the 1st round by locking the slide back, insert the magazine and then release the slide lock. When following their instruction, my problem happens 50% of the time, when I chamber the 1st round like all my other guns, it's 90% of the time. Problem with hollow points is worse. Removing the 1st round (-1 in the magazine) the problem generally goes away).

Any ideas? I contacted Kahr and they sent me a new slide spring and lectured me on the type of ammo I was using, insisting the ammo must be "US made" which all my ammo is (mostly Winchester White box stuff from Walmart and high-performance personal protection rounds that I typically don't shoot). I have a Kimber and a Sig and have never seen a problem like this. No improvement with the new slide spring BTW.

Thanks in advance for any advice.

Will Beararms · March 14, 2011, 07:41 AM

Send it back.

larryh1108 · March 14, 2011, 08:07 AM

You can try the Wolff +10% mag springs. I got them in mine and they have been 100% since then. You do need to use the slide release to feed the first round. They state it in the manual and it's true. Yes, most other guns you can rack the slide but the Kahr has such small tolerances that it does make a difference.

Will Beararms · March 14, 2011, 08:19 AM

I could never trust a handgun to defend hearth, home and family that had an American-only ammo stipulation or required that the slide had to be locked back and released home to chamber the first round.

I truly am not trying to start an argument here. I am trying to understand. Perhaps, this the trade off for such a good feeling, thin pistol. They look great, feel good and I have always like the triggers.

I say send it back to Kahr with a detailed letter telling them what is happening and what you expect and let them "work it over".

WVsig · March 14, 2011, 08:31 AM

What does the jam look like? What does the round look like in the mag. I have noticed that sometimes the first round, last round loaded, has a tendency to stick up a bit. This might be your issue which is causing the round to hit the ramp at an odd angle.

Using the slide lock it recommended because of the size of the pistol. Too often people ride the slide when racking by hand and Kahrs light weight and small slide with little mass does not always slam home. Using the slide release I have never had a feeding issue. It is a drawback to Kahrs but one I can live with. YMMV

Will Beararms · March 14, 2011, 08:45 AM

WV:

I do not want you to think I am bashing you or other Kahr owners. I will remain moot from now own when the name Kahr comes up. I am highly opinionated and have to be careful.

I do think they are a neat concept and again they are wonderful to shoot in 9mm ( I have no experience with the other calibers. )

Perhaps in time they will work through the first round requirement.

Sixer · March 14, 2011, 02:06 PM

You're not using the little pinky extensions on your magazines are you???

voyager4520 · March 14, 2011, 03:19 PM

Are you using the factory magazines? No aftermarket extensions?

threegun · March 14, 2011, 04:32 PM

Quote:

I could never trust a handgun to defend hearth, home and family that had an American-only ammo stipulation or required that the slide had to be locked back and released home to chamber the first round.

The ammo stipulation wouldn't effect me ever as all my defensive ammo is American made.

The fisrt round chamber issue is yet another "who cares" point. So you have to load from slide lock......big deal. If you shoot your gun empty your slide is locked already....so no issue. If you perform a tactical reload you don't have to chamber a round so its not an issue. It only becomes an issue if you carry chamber empty.

My PM9 has been 100 percent reliable so far.

DAdams · March 14, 2011, 09:34 PM

A CS Person at Kahr once told me the PM9 should run any standard 9mm.
I fiddled with various JHP rounds to no avail inititally. Mine had to go back to Kahr once, they replaced a number of parts and it has been fine since. PIA yes, great pocket 9mm? Yes.

I qualified about 5 different high quality manufacturers JHP and stocked up on them.

Will Beararms · March 14, 2011, 10:04 PM

I guess I am closed minded. It is a big deal to me if I pay $500.00 to $700.00 and I am not allowed to chamber the first round in any other manner than releasing a retracted slide on that first round. All right, I have said enough. Peace out.

Northslope Nimrod · March 14, 2011, 10:07 PM

Common problem. I think it is more prevalent with the CW series. Do a google search and you will see.
A guy told my dad that he filed something on his magazine and it fixed it. Not sure what or how he filed it.
It appears some have the problem and some don't.

fredeee · March 15, 2011, 06:00 AM

Thanks for responses. Few more details:
1. I am using the two original factor magazines that came with the PM9.
2. One of them does have the pinky extension, but my problem occurs with the other factory extended magazine and it happened before I put on the pinky extension
3. It does seem that the jammed round is not "pointing up" properly when feeding. The round never leaves the magazine. Strange how it happens on both magazines so I'm hesitant to blame it on the magazine, unless I have two crap magazines.

As for the Kahr debate, I love the pistol. It's very small, relatively comfortable to shoot considering it's size and other than this issue, I've had no problems. Put over 700 rounds through it so far and it's a fine shooter and super comfortable to carry IWB. On the other hand, it's an expensive pistol and considering the cost and other options out there, I feel I may have made the wrong choice, especially in the face of quite a few new entries such as the Kimber Solo and the Sig 290.

I'll check to see how others have fixed it and get in touch with Kahr again, maybe they'll be willing to take the gun in and "work it over" as someone said. I'll report in on my experience with their customer service.

Thanks again!

threegun · March 15, 2011, 08:23 AM

Quote:

I guess I am closed minded. It is a big deal to me if I pay $500.00 to $700.00 and I am not allowed to chamber the first round in any other manner than releasing a retracted slide on that first round. All right, I have said enough. Peace out.

No not close minded just a personal choice. I have chosen to deal with this issue since it doesn't effect me and I love the size vs power. Accuracy is excellent and so far reliability has been perfect.

Money isn't a concern as it relates to a firearms limitations for me. If I can afford it and it offers me and advantage (in this case its a small powerful package that shoots straight) and I can live with the limitations then its mine.

For you the limitation is to much to bear.

HKFan9 · March 15, 2011, 08:41 AM

+20 on Threegun's post. Kahr makes an excellent pocket 9 in the PM series. Only beaten... fractionally... by the R9 with a higher sticker price.

You are experiencing a failure to feed because you blatantly had a failure to read the instruction manual first.

Plus once you break the gun in, mine was flawless since day one.. but they loosen up nice, and then you ARE able to feed from racking the slide.

However as Threegun said... its really a non issue UNLESS your too afraid to carry with a round in the chamber.... in which case this is not the firearms fault. To me... condition 3... or as I'd like to say... condition worthless..... is an unsafe practice in my eyes... and just shows that basically someone is not experienced enough with a firearm to feel safe with a DAO with a live round.

Personally if you dont have the experience to carry this way... I really do think its a lack of training, and a lack of understanding.... in which case I would recomend your not ready to carry a firearm. In a life and death situation where you are LEGALLY going to defend yourself using a firearm.... the person in already attacking.... do you REALLY think you will have time to draw.... rack a round into the chamber.. SAFELY, and then be able to defend your life... Remember... real life isn't a movie. Being that your a law abiding citizen... your only going to be reaching for that firearm.... after something has happened.... so your already late in nature..

As for the American Machoism as I like to call it.... I don't really care where a gun was made. It is pretty well debated that guns are usually made better in Europe anyways... and Americans went from being producers to consumers long ago. I bet the TV in your house isn't made in America... or the electronic devise your using to type on this forum isn't made in America either. I'd say a 50/50 chance your car is made in America... keep in mind a lot of American car companies are producing certain models over seas!

insolentshrew · March 15, 2011, 09:41 AM

In regards to Will Beararms being against any gun that you have to lock the slide back and use the slide release to chamber first round. If you take the time to read through most any firearms manual, they will either recommend this method or starting with the slide closed to slingshot the slide (for guns were it is an actual "slide stop" not a "slide release"). This is in there because with almost any ammo there is a chance that your first round won't feed where people baby the slide back forward to chamber the first round vs letting the recoil spring hammer it home.

To the OP, if it hasn't been mentioned - I would disassembled your mags, check to make sure your springs look ok & clean your mags while you are at it. You might also want to inspect the top of the chamber of the barrel to see if there are any burrs or rough spots that the round could be catching on.

To be honest, I am surprised kahr sent you a new recoil spring vs new mags. If the issue is ONLY happening on the first round, and only when the mag is completely full - that would indicate a mag issue, correct? I suppose it's possible if the spring is too weak, the first round in the mag having a little more tension on it, this could cause the problem.

Anyways, keep us up to date.

threegun · March 15, 2011, 12:08 PM

Quote:

As for the Kahr debate, I love the pistol. It's very small, relatively comfortable to shoot considering it's size and other than this issue, I've had no problems. Put over 700 rounds through it so far and it's a fine shooter and super comfortable to carry IWB. On the other hand, it's an expensive pistol and considering the cost and other options out there, I feel I may have made the wrong choice, especially in the face of quite a few new entries such as the Kimber Solo and the Sig 290.

Its a wonderful firearm. If you love it send it in for service. You seem to have a half lemon LOL. Most folks including myself are reporting great reliability. So yours is probably an anomaly.

HKFan9 · March 15, 2011, 02:09 PM

The Kimber SOLO is nice.... we got one in our shop... it was sold 3 hours after it was put in the case...

HOWEVER! Two days later it came back to us with reports of FTF, FTE, mags falling out of the gun.

So I PERSONALLY packed it up... and sent it to Kimber... still waiting to see how Kimber takes care of it.

Now don't get me wrong, I like Kimber, I did like the SOLO, but I would be warry right now since it is a new production. I can personally say however the SOLO is larger and heavier than the Kahr PM-9, and cost about the same.

chris in va · March 15, 2011, 02:31 PM

Ah yes, the Kahr magazine issue.

The rounds in the magazine have to be pointing up when you insert it. In other words, it has to be flush with the feed lips, and all the way back. Try that, and use the slide release, give it 2-300 rounds of break-in time and get back to us.

RUT · March 15, 2011, 03:07 PM

>>especially in the face of quite a few new entries such as the Kimber Solo and the Sig 290.<<

And why should they necessarily be any better?

HKFan9 · March 15, 2011, 04:55 PM

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=444596

You can read Dukes new post on his SOLO, he likes it... but even sites that just like the PM-9, it needs to be chambered from the slide release when loading the first round.

nogo · March 15, 2011, 08:25 PM

My guess is that you are not retracting slide all the way back before releasing it. The result is that case rim is not coming up under the extractor as it should. My Kahr pmp did this until I figured it out. My suffestion is to avoid condition 3 carry with this pistol.

dreamweaver · March 15, 2011, 08:41 PM

Quote:

UNLESS your too afraid to carry with a round in the chamber.

a round in the chamber would obviously solve the problem. my PM9 was a
jam-o-matic out of the box. very picky about what ammo it ate.
Kahr recommended i break it in with 500 rounds of round nose fmj.
once broken it, it was 100% reliable with all ammo, except flat nose fmj.
i prefer to carry without one chambered, and sling shot the slide with any issues.
just my 2c

NWCP · March 15, 2011, 08:53 PM

How many rounds have you put through your PM9? Mine has had no issues since I purchased it, but Kahr has a recommended break in period. The pistol has some tight tolerances. Work with Kahr until you get it right. It's still one of the best subcompact 9s on the market. As for personal defense ammo mine seems to like 124 grain Golden Saber. I've run Blazer Brass and WWB through it at the range without issues. It does like to be well lubricated. When I'm carrying it I take it down, clean and lube it every few weeks even if it hasn't been fired. Does the problem occur with the extended mag, the flush mag, or both? I have heard of some owners having issues with the extended mags yet mine has functioned fine and I like having all my fingers gripping the gun when firing. I always carry with one in the chamber. The little pistol is not the easiest to 'slingshot' a round into IMHO.

March 14, 2011, 06:33 AM	#1
fredeee Member Join Date: July 4, 2010 Posts: 54	Kahr PM9 1st round fails to feed Wondering if anyone else has a similar problem. I have a Kahr PM9 that's less than a year old. Since day one, if you load the magazine to it's max and rack the slide, the 1st round jams in the magazine and never feeds into the chamber, essentially keeping the slide open and a round stuck. According to their manual, Kahr insists that you're supposed to chamber the 1st round by locking the slide back, insert the magazine and then release the slide lock. When following their instruction, my problem happens 50% of the time, when I chamber the 1st round like all my other guns, it's 90% of the time. Problem with hollow points is worse. Removing the 1st round (-1 in the magazine) the problem generally goes away). Any ideas? I contacted Kahr and they sent me a new slide spring and lectured me on the type of ammo I was using, insisting the ammo must be "US made" which all my ammo is (mostly Winchester White box stuff from Walmart and high-performance personal protection rounds that I typically don't shoot). I have a Kimber and a Sig and have never seen a problem like this. No improvement with the new slide spring BTW. Thanks in advance for any advice.

March 14, 2011, 07:41 AM	#2
Will Beararms Senior Member Join Date: October 12, 1999 Location: North Texas Posts: 2,834	Send it back. __________________ "Without a rifle you are nothing, worthless, you are waiting for death, any minute, any second." -- Aron Bielski

March 14, 2011, 08:07 AM	#3
larryh1108 Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2008 Location: NC Posts: 813	You can try the Wolff +10% mag springs. I got them in mine and they have been 100% since then. You do need to use the slide release to feed the first round. They state it in the manual and it's true. Yes, most other guns you can rack the slide but the Kahr has such small tolerances that it does make a difference. __________________ Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

March 14, 2011, 08:19 AM	#4
Will Beararms Senior Member Join Date: October 12, 1999 Location: North Texas Posts: 2,834	I could never trust a handgun to defend hearth, home and family that had an American-only ammo stipulation or required that the slide had to be locked back and released home to chamber the first round. I truly am not trying to start an argument here. I am trying to understand. Perhaps, this the trade off for such a good feeling, thin pistol. They look great, feel good and I have always like the triggers. I say send it back to Kahr with a detailed letter telling them what is happening and what you expect and let them "work it over". __________________ "Without a rifle you are nothing, worthless, you are waiting for death, any minute, any second." -- Aron Bielski

March 14, 2011, 08:31 AM	#5
WVsig Senior Member Join Date: June 30, 2010 Location: NC Posts: 5,309	What does the jam look like? What does the round look like in the mag. I have noticed that sometimes the first round, last round loaded, has a tendency to stick up a bit. This might be your issue which is causing the round to hit the ramp at an odd angle. Using the slide lock it recommended because of the size of the pistol. Too often people ride the slide when racking by hand and Kahrs light weight and small slide with little mass does not always slam home. Using the slide release I have never had a feeding issue. It is a drawback to Kahrs but one I can live with. YMMV __________________ -The right to be left alone is the most comprehensive of rights, and the right most valued by free people.-Louis Brandeis -Its a tool box... I don't care you put the tools in for the job that's all... -Sam from Ronin -It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. -Aristotle

March 14, 2011, 08:45 AM	#6
Will Beararms Senior Member Join Date: October 12, 1999 Location: North Texas Posts: 2,834	WV: I do not want you to think I am bashing you or other Kahr owners. I will remain moot from now own when the name Kahr comes up. I am highly opinionated and have to be careful. I do think they are a neat concept and again they are wonderful to shoot in 9mm ( I have no experience with the other calibers. ) Perhaps in time they will work through the first round requirement. __________________ "Without a rifle you are nothing, worthless, you are waiting for death, any minute, any second." -- Aron Bielski

March 14, 2011, 02:06 PM	#7
Sixer Senior Member Join Date: April 16, 2008 Location: Missouri Posts: 1,891	You're not using the little pinky extensions on your magazines are you??? __________________ Hopp Custom Leather <------ click for HOLSTER awesomeness!! -There is no theory of evolution... Just a list of creatures Chuck Norris has allowed to live.

March 14, 2011, 03:19 PM	#8
voyager4520 Senior Member Join Date: April 1, 2009 Location: SE Colorado Posts: 840	Are you using the factory magazines? No aftermarket extensions? __________________ Glock 23,27 Last edited by voyager4520; March 14, 2011 at 03:45 PM.

March 14, 2011, 09:34 PM	#10
DAdams Senior Member Join Date: May 14, 2007 Location: East TN Posts: 521	A CS Person at Kahr once told me the PM9 should run any standard 9mm. I fiddled with various JHP rounds to no avail inititally. Mine had to go back to Kahr once, they replaced a number of parts and it has been fine since. PIA yes, great pocket 9mm? Yes. I qualified about 5 different high quality manufacturers JHP and stocked up on them.

March 14, 2011, 10:04 PM	#11
Will Beararms Senior Member Join Date: October 12, 1999 Location: North Texas Posts: 2,834	I guess I am closed minded. It is a big deal to me if I pay $500.00 to $700.00 and I am not allowed to chamber the first round in any other manner than releasing a retracted slide on that first round. All right, I have said enough. Peace out. __________________ "Without a rifle you are nothing, worthless, you are waiting for death, any minute, any second." -- Aron Bielski

March 14, 2011, 10:07 PM	#12
Northslope Nimrod Senior Member Join Date: November 23, 2004 Posts: 465	Common problem. I think it is more prevalent with the CW series. Do a google search and you will see. A guy told my dad that he filed something on his magazine and it fixed it. Not sure what or how he filed it. It appears some have the problem and some don't.

March 15, 2011, 06:00 AM	#13
fredeee Member Join Date: July 4, 2010 Posts: 54	More details Thanks for responses. Few more details: 1. I am using the two original factor magazines that came with the PM9. 2. One of them does have the pinky extension, but my problem occurs with the other factory extended magazine and it happened before I put on the pinky extension 3. It does seem that the jammed round is not "pointing up" properly when feeding. The round never leaves the magazine. Strange how it happens on both magazines so I'm hesitant to blame it on the magazine, unless I have two crap magazines. As for the Kahr debate, I love the pistol. It's very small, relatively comfortable to shoot considering it's size and other than this issue, I've had no problems. Put over 700 rounds through it so far and it's a fine shooter and super comfortable to carry IWB. On the other hand, it's an expensive pistol and considering the cost and other options out there, I feel I may have made the wrong choice, especially in the face of quite a few new entries such as the Kimber Solo and the Sig 290. I'll check to see how others have fixed it and get in touch with Kahr again, maybe they'll be willing to take the gun in and "work it over" as someone said. I'll report in on my experience with their customer service. Thanks again!

March 15, 2011, 08:41 AM	#15
HKFan9 Senior Member Join Date: May 3, 2008 Posts: 3,057	+20 on Threegun's post. Kahr makes an excellent pocket 9 in the PM series. Only beaten... fractionally... by the R9 with a higher sticker price. You are experiencing a failure to feed because you blatantly had a failure to read the instruction manual first. Plus once you break the gun in, mine was flawless since day one.. but they loosen up nice, and then you ARE able to feed from racking the slide. However as Threegun said... its really a non issue UNLESS your too afraid to carry with a round in the chamber.... in which case this is not the firearms fault. To me... condition 3... or as I'd like to say... condition worthless..... is an unsafe practice in my eyes... and just shows that basically someone is not experienced enough with a firearm to feel safe with a DAO with a live round. Personally if you dont have the experience to carry this way... I really do think its a lack of training, and a lack of understanding.... in which case I would recomend your not ready to carry a firearm. In a life and death situation where you are LEGALLY going to defend yourself using a firearm.... the person in already attacking.... do you REALLY think you will have time to draw.... rack a round into the chamber.. SAFELY, and then be able to defend your life... Remember... real life isn't a movie. Being that your a law abiding citizen... your only going to be reaching for that firearm.... after something has happened.... so your already late in nature.. As for the American Machoism as I like to call it.... I don't really care where a gun was made. It is pretty well debated that guns are usually made better in Europe anyways... and Americans went from being producers to consumers long ago. I bet the TV in your house isn't made in America... or the electronic devise your using to type on this forum isn't made in America either. I'd say a 50/50 chance your car is made in America... keep in mind a lot of American car companies are producing certain models over seas! Last edited by HKFan9; March 15, 2011 at 08:47 AM.

March 15, 2011, 09:41 AM	#16
insolentshrew Senior Member Join Date: July 16, 2010 Posts: 270	In regards to Will Beararms being against any gun that you have to lock the slide back and use the slide release to chamber first round. If you take the time to read through most any firearms manual, they will either recommend this method or starting with the slide closed to slingshot the slide (for guns were it is an actual "slide stop" not a "slide release"). This is in there because with almost any ammo there is a chance that your first round won't feed where people baby the slide back forward to chamber the first round vs letting the recoil spring hammer it home. To the OP, if it hasn't been mentioned - I would disassembled your mags, check to make sure your springs look ok & clean your mags while you are at it. You might also want to inspect the top of the chamber of the barrel to see if there are any burrs or rough spots that the round could be catching on. To be honest, I am surprised kahr sent you a new recoil spring vs new mags. If the issue is ONLY happening on the first round, and only when the mag is completely full - that would indicate a mag issue, correct? I suppose it's possible if the spring is too weak, the first round in the mag having a little more tension on it, this could cause the problem. Anyways, keep us up to date.

March 15, 2011, 02:09 PM	#18
HKFan9 Senior Member Join Date: May 3, 2008 Posts: 3,057	The Kimber SOLO is nice.... we got one in our shop... it was sold 3 hours after it was put in the case... HOWEVER! Two days later it came back to us with reports of FTF, FTE, mags falling out of the gun. So I PERSONALLY packed it up... and sent it to Kimber... still waiting to see how Kimber takes care of it. Now don't get me wrong, I like Kimber, I did like the SOLO, but I would be warry right now since it is a new production. I can personally say however the SOLO is larger and heavier than the Kahr PM-9, and cost about the same.

March 15, 2011, 02:31 PM	#19
chris in va Senior Member Join Date: December 26, 2004 Location: Louisville KY Posts: 13,806	Ah yes, the Kahr magazine issue. The rounds in the magazine have to be pointing up when you insert it. In other words, it has to be flush with the feed lips, and all the way back. Try that, and use the slide release, give it 2-300 rounds of break-in time and get back to us.

March 15, 2011, 03:07 PM	#20
RUT Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2004 Location: NH, USA Posts: 812	>>especially in the face of quite a few new entries such as the Kimber Solo and the Sig 290.<< And why should they necessarily be any better? __________________ Liberals don't care what you do... as long as it's mandated.

March 15, 2011, 04:55 PM	#21
HKFan9 Senior Member Join Date: May 3, 2008 Posts: 3,057	http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=444596 You can read Dukes new post on his SOLO, he likes it... but even sites that just like the PM-9, it needs to be chambered from the slide release when loading the first round.

March 15, 2011, 08:25 PM	#22
nogo Senior Member Join Date: September 7, 2009 Location: central texas Posts: 215	My guess is that you are not retracting slide all the way back before releasing it. The result is that case rim is not coming up under the extractor as it should. My Kahr pmp did this until I figured it out. My suffestion is to avoid condition 3 carry with this pistol.

March 15, 2011, 08:53 PM	#24
NWCP Senior Member Join Date: December 24, 2006 Posts: 1,903	How many rounds have you put through your PM9? Mine has had no issues since I purchased it, but Kahr has a recommended break in period. The pistol has some tight tolerances. Work with Kahr until you get it right. It's still one of the best subcompact 9s on the market. As for personal defense ammo mine seems to like 124 grain Golden Saber. I've run Blazer Brass and WWB through it at the range without issues. It does like to be well lubricated. When I'm carrying it I take it down, clean and lube it every few weeks even if it hasn't been fired. Does the problem occur with the extended mag, the flush mag, or both? I have heard of some owners having issues with the extended mags yet mine has functioned fine and I like having all my fingers gripping the gun when firing. I always carry with one in the chamber. The little pistol is not the easiest to 'slingshot' a round into IMHO. Last edited by NWCP; March 15, 2011 at 08:58 PM.

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