45acp in 45 long colt shells

alltoys · February 26, 2013, 12:26 PM

hello, new to the forum and relatively new to reloading.
Have a question about using 45acp 185 gr bullet in a 45 long colt shell.
i know that the 45acp does not have a canilure where as the 45 long colts do. would it work with out a roll crimp and just use a tapered crimp?
I am using the 45long colt die set. I should be able to set the die for a slight taper crimp correct?
I f anyone has done this i would appreciate the load data that was used and any info that would help.

reason for wanting to do this.. an abundence of 45acp 185 gr bullets and a bunch of 45long colt shells.
I entend to shoot these loads if possible in a Tauraus 45colt judge revolver.
Thanks
Bill

**Unclenick** · February 26, 2013, 12:37 PM

Welcome to the forum.

The general reason for roll crimping in a revolver is that it has a recoil effect, called bullet pull, that a self-loader doesn't have. This occurs when the recoil pushes the cylinder back against the case rim, which, in turn, tends to pull the case off the bullet, which tries to stay in place by inertia. I call it "pantsing" the bullet. The result is the bullet then is sticking further out of the case. If it gets far enough out, it protrudes from the cylinder, jamming rotation of the cylinder. It is to prevent this that revolver loads are usually roll crimped. The heavier the bullet, the worse the problem is. The lighter the gun the worse the problem is because a light gun recoils harder.

Having said that, if you are using a very light target load, like 3.5 to 4.0 grains of bullseye, you may get away with a taper crimp. The idea is just to not have enough recoil to cause the "pantsing" problem.

Also note that if you are using swaged bullets or cast bullets that are not too hard, you can often force a roll crimp to bite into the lead a little, and that can be good enough. You just have to try it with your load levels and see.

CS86 · February 26, 2013, 01:27 PM

Quote:

The general reason for roll crimping in a revolver is that it has a recoil effect, called bullet pull, that a self-loader doesn't have. This occurs when the recoil pushes the cylinder back against the case rim, which, in turn, tends to pull the case off the bullet, which tries to stay in place by inertia. I call it "pantsing" the bullet.

Will a taper crimp prevent this or is it recommended to roll crimp on all cylinder guns?

Edit: I guess u pretty much answered that question with the lighter loads.

Magnum Wheel Man · February 26, 2013, 02:09 PM

one thing too ( as I have tried using some of my bulk 45 acp bullets ) you're gun will likely not shoot to point of aim, without a heavier 45 Colt bullet

ostrick · February 26, 2013, 10:33 PM

45 acp is .451 & 45 colt is .452 normally, I would think you could trade the
45 acp for 45 colt. .451 are almost impossible to find right now.
That's if you are using jacketed bullets.

**Unclenick** · February 27, 2013, 04:35 PM

Ostrick,

That's not actually correct. It used to be .45 Auto was .451" groove diameter and .45 Colt was .454". Sometime after WWII (I've heard as late as 1960) this was changed and they are now both .451", except that .45 Colt chamber throats are often still cut so the old larger diameter bullets can be chambered in them (in case someone has an old mold they are using). Sizing a lead bullet down .003" or .004" is not hard for a forcing cone to do, though it's hard to argue that this doesn't limit .45 Colt accuracy potential.

.451" is the standard bullet diameter for jacketed bullets for a .451" groove diameter bore and .452" is the standard diameter for lead bullets for that same .451" groove diameter bore. The idea is that the softer lead bullets will seal the bore more easily with a little extra metal, making up for small alignment errors, and that doesn't deform them enough to introduce accuracy problems. That size arrangement works pretty well in self-loaders, but in revolvers you usually try to size the bullet for the chamber throats to get best accuracy.

Sirgunsalot · February 27, 2013, 09:26 PM

This is just my 2cents because I have used acp bullets in 45 lc without any problems. My Ruger Redhawk likes the 250gr bullets better than the lighter ones. I have the Lee Factory Crimp Die for 45acp and all I do is reset it for the 45lc length. Use a heavy taper crimp to make sure it holds the bullet well. It is something you can try but I am sticking with 45 lc bullets just because of the weight and it's easier to use them.

shootniron · February 27, 2013, 10:34 PM

I use the my 230gr rn cast bullets in 45colt and light 454 loads with no problem.

alltoys · March 4, 2013, 10:03 AM

Thanks to all who reply to this thread.
Bill

rclark · March 4, 2013, 10:16 AM

You can also seat the ACP bullets just a bit deeper in the case to light crimp just over the start of the ogive. I have shot 200g bullets in .45 Colt only a few times. I way prefer the 250g RNFP or the 255g SWC for .45 Colt.

February 26, 2013, 12:26 PM	#1
alltoys Junior Member Join Date: February 25, 2013 Posts: 2	45acp in 45 long colt shells hello, new to the forum and relatively new to reloading. Have a question about using 45acp 185 gr bullet in a 45 long colt shell. i know that the 45acp does not have a canilure where as the 45 long colts do. would it work with out a roll crimp and just use a tapered crimp? I am using the 45long colt die set. I should be able to set the die for a slight taper crimp correct? I f anyone has done this i would appreciate the load data that was used and any info that would help. reason for wanting to do this.. an abundence of 45acp 185 gr bullets and a bunch of 45long colt shells. I entend to shoot these loads if possible in a Tauraus 45colt judge revolver. Thanks Bill

February 26, 2013, 12:37 PM	#2
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,061	Welcome to the forum. The general reason for roll crimping in a revolver is that it has a recoil effect, called bullet pull, that a self-loader doesn't have. This occurs when the recoil pushes the cylinder back against the case rim, which, in turn, tends to pull the case off the bullet, which tries to stay in place by inertia. I call it "pantsing" the bullet. The result is the bullet then is sticking further out of the case. If it gets far enough out, it protrudes from the cylinder, jamming rotation of the cylinder. It is to prevent this that revolver loads are usually roll crimped. The heavier the bullet, the worse the problem is. The lighter the gun the worse the problem is because a light gun recoils harder. Having said that, if you are using a very light target load, like 3.5 to 4.0 grains of bullseye, you may get away with a taper crimp. The idea is just to not have enough recoil to cause the "pantsing" problem. Also note that if you are using swaged bullets or cast bullets that are not too hard, you can often force a roll crimp to bite into the lead a little, and that can be good enough. You just have to try it with your load levels and see. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

February 26, 2013, 02:09 PM	#4
Magnum Wheel Man Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2006 Location: Southern Minnesota Posts: 9,333	one thing too ( as I have tried using some of my bulk 45 acp bullets ) you're gun will likely not shoot to point of aim, without a heavier 45 Colt bullet __________________ In life you either make dust or eat dust...

February 26, 2013, 10:33 PM	#5
ostrick Junior Member Join Date: January 31, 2012 Posts: 8	45 acp is .451 & 45 colt is .452 normally, I would think you could trade the 45 acp for 45 colt. .451 are almost impossible to find right now. That's if you are using jacketed bullets. Last edited by ostrick; February 26, 2013 at 11:05 PM.

February 27, 2013, 04:35 PM	#6
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,061	Ostrick, That's not actually correct. It used to be .45 Auto was .451" groove diameter and .45 Colt was .454". Sometime after WWII (I've heard as late as 1960) this was changed and they are now both .451", except that .45 Colt chamber throats are often still cut so the old larger diameter bullets can be chambered in them (in case someone has an old mold they are using). Sizing a lead bullet down .003" or .004" is not hard for a forcing cone to do, though it's hard to argue that this doesn't limit .45 Colt accuracy potential. .451" is the standard bullet diameter for jacketed bullets for a .451" groove diameter bore and .452" is the standard diameter for lead bullets for that same .451" groove diameter bore. The idea is that the softer lead bullets will seal the bore more easily with a little extra metal, making up for small alignment errors, and that doesn't deform them enough to introduce accuracy problems. That size arrangement works pretty well in self-loaders, but in revolvers you usually try to size the bullet for the chamber throats to get best accuracy. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

February 27, 2013, 09:26 PM	#7
Sirgunsalot Junior Member Join Date: January 11, 2009 Posts: 3	45acp bullets in 45 lc brass This is just my 2cents because I have used acp bullets in 45 lc without any problems. My Ruger Redhawk likes the 250gr bullets better than the lighter ones. I have the Lee Factory Crimp Die for 45acp and all I do is reset it for the 45lc length. Use a heavy taper crimp to make sure it holds the bullet well. It is something you can try but I am sticking with 45 lc bullets just because of the weight and it's easier to use them.

February 27, 2013, 10:34 PM	#8
shootniron Senior Member Join Date: April 16, 2011 Location: Georgia Posts: 1,599	I use the my 230gr rn cast bullets in 45colt and light 454 loads with no problem.

March 4, 2013, 10:03 AM	#9
alltoys Junior Member Join Date: February 25, 2013 Posts: 2	45 acp in long colt shells Thanks to all who reply to this thread. Bill

March 4, 2013, 10:16 AM	#10
rclark Senior Member Join Date: February 12, 2009 Location: Butte, MT Posts: 2,620	You can also seat the ACP bullets just a bit deeper in the case to light crimp just over the start of the ogive. I have shot 200g bullets in .45 Colt only a few times. I way prefer the 250g RNFP or the 255g SWC for .45 Colt. __________________ A clinger and deplorable, MAGA, and life NRA member. When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns. Single Action .45 Colt (Sometimes colloquially referred to by its alias as the .45 'Long' Colt or .45LC). Don't leave home without it. That said, the .44Spec is right up their too... but the .45 Colt is still the king.