Dies specific for 327 Federal

chiefr · August 13, 2011, 04:35 PM

I have a chance to pick up an SP101 for a very reasonable price. One of the first things I noticed was I could not find anyone who made dies for the 327. There is now plenty of reloading data for this one on the net.

I appears most reloaders are getting by with 32H&R dies. I was wondering if any of the 32 H&R dies would full length size the new 327.

Also and of interest is new brass is not available and backordered at most places. IE Midway

WIL TERRY · August 13, 2011, 06:03 PM

SHUCKS.....a 32ACP or 32S&WLONG FL sizing die will also FL size 327 brass for goodness sakes.

Sevens · August 13, 2011, 06:18 PM

Not only do you not need ".327 specific" dies, you might not be able to use such dies for .32 H&R or .32 Long if you ever felt the need.

.32 H&R dies are what everyone is using to load the .327 Federal.

I really don't know of any company that makes .327 Federal "only" dies.

FrankenMauser · August 13, 2011, 06:37 PM

RCBS is now labeling their dies as ".32 S&W Long, .32 H&R, .327 Federal". Off the top of my head, I believe the exact product number is 21412 (I have a ridiculous memory for completely useless numbers, especially if there's a pattern). No other major companies have labeled their dies specifically for the .327, yet (that I am aware of).

Quote:

.32 H&R dies are what everyone is using to load the .327 Federal.

I've read a few, scattered reports of Redding .32 H&R dies not being suitable for the .327. I'm sure they're from production runs prior to the .327's release, but don't know (not enough details).

Quote:

SHUCKS.....a 32ACP or 32S&WLONG FL sizing die will also FL size 327 brass for goodness sakes.

Not all .32 S&W Long dies have enough internal clearance to accept the length of a .327 Federal case. Most .327 shooters are successfully using Lee and RCBS dies, from what I have gathered. (I use RCBS dies.)

HOWEVER... .32 Auto dies are not appropriate for sizing .327 cases. There is a small difference in cartridge dimensions. Using .32 Auto or .32 S&W dies to size .327 cases will over-work the brass, and cause premature failure. It'll work, temporarily; but it will cost you more in the long run.

And, of course, you still have the issue of internal clearance. .32 Auto and .32 S&W sizing dies are not designed to accept cases even as long as .32 S&W Long. So, .327 brass is a no-go.

FrankenMauser · August 13, 2011, 06:42 PM

I was right.

RCBS #21412: RCBS Carbide 3-Die Set 32 S&W Long, 32 H&R Magnum, 327 Federal

Sevens · August 13, 2011, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Using .32 Auto or .32 S&W dies to size .327 cases will over-work the brass, and cause premature failure. It'll work, temporarily; but it will cost you more in the long run.

Well...
And I say this knowing how much you just LOVE Lee dies

...
The Lee Carbide .32 Auto die set includes the same sizing die that they give you in the .32 H&R set. Same part number, stamped in to the body of the die.

The flare and seat/crimp die are different parts, but the size die is exactly the same. And the length of the .32 Auto is small... the .327 Federal is comparably quite long.

chiefr · August 13, 2011, 07:45 PM

Thanks Frank, You answered my question in a very professional manner.
The whole point of my question was relative to the length of the 327 case and the sizing depth of 32SWL and 32HR die. Yes I know you can use the 32SWL & 32HR Mag to bell and seat. However, I desire to purchase a die long enough to resize the entire case.
I do reload 32auto and a flashlight view definately illustrates my 32 auto dies will not fully size the 327 which is much longer. They are older RCBS
I will order the RCBS 21412

Colorado Redneck · August 13, 2011, 10:52 PM

I have a set of Redding dies bought for the 327 Fed Mag. Have not had brass yet to load, but have done some 32 H&R Mag loads.

So tell me it ain't so! Can't use these dies for 327 Federal? Dang! I spose I oughta contact Redding to get it from the horses mouth.

243winxb · August 14, 2011, 10:09 AM

Peope are using the Lee dies to load 327 Federal on the Midwayusa site.

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct...tnumber=307299
Lee Interchangeable dies

Frequently, dies from one caliber may be used to load other calibers. Due to the locations of crimping shoulders, the operation may only work for dies of the shorter caliber to the longer. You may notice a label depicting the shorter die in your set for the longer version of the cartridge, we do this to reduce costs.

Even though some dies are interchangable, in many cases, different shellholders are necessary. You can see a complete list of shellholders under "Case Preparation" then "Shellholders and Calibers".

45 Colt - 454 Casull *
44 Special - 44 Magnum
38 Special - 357 Magnum
30-30 Winchester - 30 Remington
357 Magnum - 357 Maximum
38 Super - 9mm Largo
44 Russian - 44 Special
40 Smith & Wesson - 10mm - 41 Action Express
32 Smith & Wesson - 32 S&W Long - 32 H&R Magnum **

*The 45 Colt expander die will also work for the 454 Casull by backing the die out approximately two turns to compensate for the difference in case length.

**Our dies allow the use of .308 bullets in the 32 H&R Magnum. The other bullet diameter commonly used is .311 and that is the expander that comes with the set. To use .308 bullets, it is necessary to purchase an additional expander and turn it down to .308. This can be done using a drill press and emery cloth or if you buy the additional expander from the factory, we will do it for $10.00.

FrankenMauser · August 14, 2011, 02:33 PM

Quote:

The Lee Carbide .32 Auto die set includes the same sizing die that they give you in the .32 H&R set. Same part number, stamped in to the body of the die.

That's interesting, since .32 Auto has more in common with .32 S&W, than .32 S&W Long.

My Lee .32 S&W dies are packed away right now. I can't recall, for sure, if they have a sizing die marked '.32 S&W', '.32 Auto', or, '.32 S&W Long'. I do recall that all three dies were marked for different cartridges, though - .32 S&W, .32 Auto (ACP?), and .32 S&W Long.
(I stopped sizing .32 S&W and .32 Auto with the Lee die, and just run them through the RCBS .32 S&W Long (.327) sizer. I only occasionally use the expander and seating dies from that set, when the longer dies won't work.)

...But that does mean that having a .32 S&W or .32 Auto die set means absolutely nothing for .327 usage. You may still have a sizing die that will work (particularly with Lee, where they mix-and-match in ridiculous ways

). And, that's all that really matters: Having a sizing die that will work.

Sevens · August 14, 2011, 07:09 PM

Quote:

However, I desire to purchase a die long enough to resize the entire case.

All well and good, as long as we remember that it's simply about access in to the top of the die -- and nothing about the tooling inside.

A carbide sizing die isn't a huge full-length part inside the body of the die that must match the length of the case. It's merely a carbide ring that the cartridge case is pushed-through to re-size.

What you need is the ability to run the case up inside the die for it's full length. And since I only happen to own Lee dies in .32 caliber, that's the only brand I can comment on -- they will absolutely do a fine job in loading .327 Federal Mag ammunition.

I know.
I've made thousands of it.

Quote:

And, that's all that really matters: Having a sizing die that will work.

Not so -- you must also have a flare die and seating die that has the ability to work with shorter cartridges. For example... I am getting a lot of use out of my Lee Carbide .460 S&W Mag set these days. And though I know I can re-size .45 Colt with it, I have a hunch or suspicion that it simply may not be "short" enough to flare or seat/crimp in .45 Colt with it. The .460 is l-o-n-g as all holy hell and the .45 Colt won't get up all the way to the top of the die where the flaring and crimping "magic" happens.

With a sizing die, all the magic happens at the bottom (mouth) of the die. With flaring and crimping, it happens at the top.

FrankenMauser · August 15, 2011, 01:57 AM

Quote:

Not so -- you must also have a flare die and seating die that has the ability to work with shorter cartridges. For example... I am getting a lot of use out of my Lee Carbide .460 S&W Mag set these days. And though I know I can re-size .45 Colt with it, I have a hunch or suspicion that it simply may not be "short" enough to flare or seat/crimp in .45 Colt with it. The .460 is l-o-n-g as all holy hell and the .45 Colt won't get up all the way to the top of the die where the flaring and crimping "magic" happens.

With a sizing die, all the magic happens at the bottom (mouth) of the die. With flaring and crimping, it happens at the top.

But, you can still use the short expander and seater dies (.32 S&W, .32 Auto) for the longer cases (.32 S&W Long, .32 H&R, .327). ...Just back the dies out of the press a bit.

As you said, though: My .32 Long/H&R/.327 dies are too long to expand, seat, or crimp, when I'm working with .32 S&W or .32 Auto. The magic happens at the top, and the stubby little cases don't reach that far.

To complicate things, you can sometimes work around these issues, though...
I currently have a very old RCBS ".38 Wadcutter" seating die set up in my Dillon 550, for .380 Auto. With RCBS's newer, generic ".38/9mm RN" seating stem, it reaches far enough to work for the stubby .380.

Why must there be so many exceptions in reloading discussions?

Sevens · August 15, 2011, 07:58 AM

There *are* lots of exceptions in these discussions... but the discussion is still valid.

A good example... you simply can't full length size bottle neck rifle brass without case lube. Can't do it! Destined for complete FAILURE if you try. It's not about your leverage or strength, it's about the case rim's ability to hang on when a tool steel shell holder forcibly rips it from a steel reloading die that won't let go. And you'll find out early if you aren't skilled at case lubing or if you have crappy case lube or if you don't properly use your particular brand of case lube.

It's a law in handloading -- can't be done. If you do it, you got LUCKY and the next one will end your session.

Except, of course, for the RCBS X-die!

I don't have one. I prefer to stick to the "tried and true." I'm not saying it's a gimmick, I just feel comfortable going with what has worked for maybe a hundred years. It's not that much trouble for me to do it with the method everyone knows and succeeds with.

But yeah... exceptions. But we learn a bit from these discussions.

August 13, 2011, 04:35 PM	#1
chiefr Senior Member Join Date: January 27, 2010 Location: AR Posts: 1,401	Dies specific for 327 Federal I have a chance to pick up an SP101 for a very reasonable price. One of the first things I noticed was I could not find anyone who made dies for the 327. There is now plenty of reloading data for this one on the net. I appears most reloaders are getting by with 32H&R dies. I was wondering if any of the 32 H&R dies would full length size the new 327. Also and of interest is new brass is not available and backordered at most places. IE Midway

August 13, 2011, 06:18 PM	#3
Sevens Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 11,756	Not only do you not need ".327 specific" dies, you might not be able to use such dies for .32 H&R or .32 Long if you ever felt the need. .32 H&R dies are what everyone is using to load the .327 Federal. I really don't know of any company that makes .327 Federal "only" dies. __________________ *Attention Brass rats and other reloaders:* I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.

August 13, 2011, 06:42 PM	#5
FrankenMauser Senior Member Join Date: August 25, 2008 Location: In the valley above the plain Posts: 13,424	I was right. RCBS #21412: RCBS Carbide 3-Die Set 32 S&W Long, 32 H&R Magnum, 327 Federal __________________ Don't even try it. It's even worse than the internet would lead you to believe.

August 13, 2011, 10:52 PM	#8
Colorado Redneck Senior Member Join Date: January 6, 2008 Location: Northeast Colorado Posts: 1,993	Redding 32 H&R Dies won't work for 327 Fed?? I have a set of Redding dies bought for the 327 Fed Mag. Have not had brass yet to load, but have done some 32 H&R Mag loads. So tell me it ain't so! Can't use these dies for 327 Federal? Dang! I spose I oughta contact Redding to get it from the horses mouth.

August 14, 2011, 10:09 AM	#9
243winxb Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2011 Location: USA Posts: 1,730	Lee Interchangeable dies Peope are using the Lee dies to load 327 Federal on the Midwayusa site. http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct...tnumber=307299 Lee Interchangeable dies Frequently, dies from one caliber may be used to load other calibers. Due to the locations of crimping shoulders, the operation may only work for dies of the shorter caliber to the longer. You may notice a label depicting the shorter die in your set for the longer version of the cartridge, we do this to reduce costs. Even though some dies are interchangable, in many cases, different shellholders are necessary. You can see a complete list of shellholders under "Case Preparation" then "Shellholders and Calibers". 45 Colt - 454 Casull * 44 Special - 44 Magnum 38 Special - 357 Magnum 30-30 Winchester - 30 Remington 357 Magnum - 357 Maximum 38 Super - 9mm Largo 44 Russian - 44 Special 40 Smith & Wesson - 10mm - 41 Action Express 32 Smith & Wesson - 32 S&W Long - 32 H&R Magnum ** The 45 Colt expander die will also work for the 454 Casull by backing the die out approximately two turns to compensate for the difference in case length. Our dies allow the use of .308 bullets in the 32 H&R Magnum. The other bullet diameter commonly used is .311 and that is the expander that comes with the set. To use .308 bullets, it is necessary to purchase an additional expander and turn it down to .308. This can be done using a drill press and emery cloth or if you buy the additional expander from the factory, we will do it for $10.00. Last edited by 243winxb; August 14, 2011 at 10:16 AM.*

August 13, 2011, 06:03 PM	#2
WIL TERRY Senior Member Join Date: July 6, 2000 Location: BLACK HILLS Posts: 1,322	SHUCKS.....a 32ACP or 32S&WLONG FL sizing die will also FL size 327 brass for goodness sakes.

August 13, 2011, 07:45 PM	#7
chiefr Senior Member Join Date: January 27, 2010 Location: AR Posts: 1,401	Thanks Frank, You answered my question in a very professional manner. The whole point of my question was relative to the length of the 327 case and the sizing depth of 32SWL and 32HR die. Yes I know you can use the 32SWL & 32HR Mag to bell and seat. However, I desire to purchase a die long enough to resize the entire case. I do reload 32auto and a flashlight view definately illustrates my 32 auto dies will not fully size the 327 which is much longer. They are older RCBS I will order the RCBS 21412

August 15, 2011, 07:58 AM	#13
Sevens Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 11,756	There are lots of exceptions in these discussions... but the discussion is still valid. A good example... you simply can't full length size bottle neck rifle brass without case lube. Can't do it! Destined for complete FAILURE if you try. It's not about your leverage or strength, it's about the case rim's ability to hang on when a tool steel shell holder forcibly rips it from a steel reloading die that won't let go. And you'll find out early if you aren't skilled at case lubing or if you have crappy case lube or if you don't properly use your particular brand of case lube. It's a law in handloading -- can't be done. If you do it, you got LUCKY and the next one will end your session. *Except, of course, for the RCBS X-die! I don't have one. I prefer to stick to the "tried and true." I'm not saying it's a gimmick, I just feel comfortable going with what has worked for maybe a hundred years. It's not that much trouble for me to do it with the method everyone knows and succeeds with. But yeah... exceptions. But we learn a bit from these discussions. __________________ Attention Brass rats and other reloaders:* I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.