disabling 1911 firing pin safety

burrhead · March 16, 2000, 02:40 PM

I think I already know the answer to this but just to be sure. Isn't true that to do away with the firing pin safety on a Colt 1911 all I have to do is remove the slide mounted block and spring and replace the actuating finger in the frame with a spacer? Anything else I'm forgetting. Thanks in advance.

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Coinneach · March 16, 2000, 03:29 PM

This may be a stupid question, but...

Why would you want to disable the FP safety? It's there for a reason, y'know.

Art Eatman · March 16, 2000, 04:31 PM

I've blocked a lot of grip safeties, but since I prefer to carry cocked-and-locked, no way would I block the "real" safety.

I'd really recommend strongly against this. After all, its presence doesn't hurt anything, and I don't see it as somehow being in the way...

, Art

burrhead · March 16, 2000, 05:01 PM

I guess I didn't make my self clear. I'm talking about the passive firing pin block in the slide, not the thumb safety. I want to disable it cause it serves no real function to my mind and could prove a liability if the mechanism became clogged with grit or the spring broke. All the other safeties designed by St. John have a use but not this "lawyer safety" installed by Colt.

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Coinneach · March 16, 2000, 05:54 PM

Burrhead, if you're worried about the reliability of the FP safety, why not just keep an eye on it and watch for signs of unusual stress?

As for getting crapped up... all the more reason to keep your gun clean. I field-strip, clean, and oil my Springfield every few days, and detail it after a range session. Of course, I'm picky about my guns.

Seriously, I'd advise you to leave all factory-installed safety systems intact.

Rosco Benson · March 16, 2000, 06:32 PM

burrhead,
You have forgotten nothing on your description of removing the Series 80 lawyer safety. So doing may cause some to grumble, but the piece is rendered no less safe than a Kimber, Springfield Armory, or the VAST majority of Colt 1911's ever built.

Rosco

George Stringer · March 16, 2000, 10:58 PM

Burrhead, Roscoe is right but keep in mind your own term "lawyer safety". If anything accidental ever happened with that gun the court will not see things your way. And in the Age of the Lawsuit you have to keep those things in mind. George

Grayfox · March 16, 2000, 11:56 PM

I vote leave it alone. It does solve the rare, but possible, dropped gun AD. More important, the factory put it there for whatever reason and to go messing around with it could lead to liability problems should you ever end up in court.
IMHO, there is no such thing as a useless saftey. While some may not be of much use, they are there for a reason. This is the same reason I never disable magazine safties either.
I also own an 80 series Colt, I simply ignore the FP saftey and it has never been a problem.

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Politically, Fashionably and Aerodynamically Incorrect!

James K · March 17, 2000, 01:05 AM

Just a note on some of the misunderstanding of that safety and what it does. Contrary to what some have written on this site, it does not prevent the firing pin from going forward if the gun drops on the hammer when the hammer is down.

It can prevent firing if the hammer is cocked and the thumb safety off, and the hammer is struck hard enough, by dropping or otherwise, to break the sear or sear notches.

But it mainly keeps the gun from firing if it is dropped on the muzzle, when the firing pin can come forward from inertia and fire a chambered cartridge.

In short, it is not useless and I see no reason to remove it. If you remove a safety and someone (a child, perhaps) is killed with that gun, you are in deep, even if the safety that you removed had nothing to do with the gun firing.

Jim

Trevor · March 17, 2000, 02:20 PM

If someone does not like the Colt Series 80 firing pin safety, he should buy a Springfield 1911 instead. Another possibility is the Series 70 (or earlier) Colt. There are a few other brands as well that do not use the Series 80 device. As others above have eloquently stated, disabling a factory installed safety is a legal risk not worth the trouble, especially when other suitable pistols readily exist.

KSLawman · March 18, 2000, 10:42 PM

I have to go along with most of the others. I don't like the Series '80 mechanism either. A friend of mine bought a stainless Colt Officer's 45 several years ago, and carried it for a week off duty before his department's annual qualification. When he tried to qualify with it, it wouldn't fire. Seems the lever that comes out of the frame to push the firing pin block out of the way was bent, and didn't touch the firing pin block.

On the other hand, my wife's favorite pistol, also a stainless Officer's 45 (I gave it to her before I ever bought her a ring) has that feature, and I've left it in, but every time I clean the pistol, while it's still unloaded, I drop a pencil with a good eraser down the barrel, point it upward, and press the trigger. If the pencil ever doesn't pop out, the pistol will be out of service until it's either repaired or the doggone thing is removed and turned into something useful.

I personally don't think that a Series '80 Colt with the firing pin block removed is any more dangerous than a Kimber, a Springfield, or a pre-Series '80 Colt, but I do realize that lawyers can and will jump on anything they can find to try to win a big settlement from you or your insurance carrier. No mechanical device is perfect, even our favorite handguns, and we must either learn to overcome their shortcomings or work around them in order to live with them.

Stay safe,

------------------
Roger Shambaugh
Ottawa, Kansas

"No man who's in the wrong can stand against
a man who knows he's right and keeps on
a-comin'." Capt. Bill McDonald, Texas Rangers

p1445 · March 19, 2000, 07:46 PM

The firing pin safty on a '80 series is sometimes removed to achieve a lighter triger pull. My IPSC gun, a p14-45 has had the firing pin safty removed to get a crisp 2lb triger pull. However, I wouldn't remove it on a carry gun.

p1445

RickB · March 20, 2000, 03:30 PM

I had a wait-and-see attitude about the S80 safety. Gritty, creepy trigger; beyond my level of patience to reassemble. Safety removed: great "factory" trigger, no more or less safe than my other 1911's. I wouldn't recommend that anyone take theirs out, but all you need is the shim and you're good to go.

HS · March 21, 2000, 09:27 AM

There are 2 levers in the frame to take out.
You can refer to my parts chart at http://www.angelfire.com/id/parachat/parts.jpg
Don't buy the A&B filler plate as it's undersized & too thin by about 5 tho', as I've just seen a friends one he bought to my house yesterday.

------------------
"The Gun from Down Under !"
http://www.para1911fanclub.w3.to/
E-mail [email protected]
Alternate E-mail
[email protected]

March 16, 2000, 02:40 PM	#1
burrhead Senior Member Join Date: July 6, 1999 Location: Chihuahuan desert, Texas Posts: 1,148	I think I already know the answer to this but just to be sure. Isn't true that to do away with the firing pin safety on a Colt 1911 all I have to do is remove the slide mounted block and spring and replace the actuating finger in the frame with a spacer? Anything else I'm forgetting. Thanks in advance. ------------------ Join the NRA.

March 16, 2000, 03:29 PM	#2
Coinneach Staff Alumnus Join Date: February 23, 1999 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 4,272	This may be a stupid question, but... Why would you want to disable the FP safety? It's there for a reason, y'know.

March 16, 2000, 04:31 PM	#3
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	I've blocked a lot of grip safeties, but since I prefer to carry cocked-and-locked, no way would I block the "real" safety. I'd really recommend strongly against this. After all, its presence doesn't hurt anything, and I don't see it as somehow being in the way... , Art

March 16, 2000, 05:01 PM	#4
burrhead Senior Member Join Date: July 6, 1999 Location: Chihuahuan desert, Texas Posts: 1,148	I guess I didn't make my self clear. I'm talking about the passive firing pin block in the slide, not the thumb safety. I want to disable it cause it serves no real function to my mind and could prove a liability if the mechanism became clogged with grit or the spring broke. All the other safeties designed by St. John have a use but not this "lawyer safety" installed by Colt. ------------------ Join the NRA.

March 16, 2000, 05:54 PM	#5
Coinneach Staff Alumnus Join Date: February 23, 1999 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 4,272	Burrhead, if you're worried about the reliability of the FP safety, why not just keep an eye on it and watch for signs of unusual stress? As for getting crapped up... all the more reason to keep your gun clean. I field-strip, clean, and oil my Springfield every few days, and detail it after a range session. Of course, I'm picky about my guns. Seriously, I'd advise you to leave all factory-installed safety systems intact.

March 16, 2000, 06:32 PM	#6
Rosco Benson Senior Member Join Date: October 20, 1998 Posts: 374	burrhead, You have forgotten nothing on your description of removing the Series 80 lawyer safety. So doing may cause some to grumble, but the piece is rendered no less safe than a Kimber, Springfield Armory, or the VAST majority of Colt 1911's ever built. Rosco

March 16, 2000, 10:58 PM	#7
George Stringer Staff Alumnus Join Date: October 12, 1998 Location: Earlington KY Posts: 2,299	Burrhead, Roscoe is right but keep in mind your own term "lawyer safety". If anything accidental ever happened with that gun the court will not see things your way. And in the Age of the Lawsuit you have to keep those things in mind. George

March 16, 2000, 11:56 PM	#8
Grayfox Senior Member Join Date: December 17, 1998 Posts: 1,885	I vote leave it alone. It does solve the rare, but possible, dropped gun AD. More important, the factory put it there for whatever reason and to go messing around with it could lead to liability problems should you ever end up in court. IMHO, there is no such thing as a useless saftey. While some may not be of much use, they are there for a reason. This is the same reason I never disable magazine safties either. I also own an 80 series Colt, I simply ignore the FP saftey and it has never been a problem. ------------------ Politically, Fashionably and Aerodynamically Incorrect!

March 17, 2000, 01:05 AM	#9
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Just a note on some of the misunderstanding of that safety and what it does. Contrary to what some have written on this site, it does not prevent the firing pin from going forward if the gun drops on the hammer when the hammer is down. It can prevent firing if the hammer is cocked and the thumb safety off, and the hammer is struck hard enough, by dropping or otherwise, to break the sear or sear notches. But it mainly keeps the gun from firing if it is dropped on the muzzle, when the firing pin can come forward from inertia and fire a chambered cartridge. In short, it is not useless and I see no reason to remove it. If you remove a safety and someone (a child, perhaps) is killed with that gun, you are in deep, even if the safety that you removed had nothing to do with the gun firing. Jim

March 17, 2000, 02:20 PM	#10
Trevor Senior Member Join Date: February 6, 1999 Posts: 384	If someone does not like the Colt Series 80 firing pin safety, he should buy a Springfield 1911 instead. Another possibility is the Series 70 (or earlier) Colt. There are a few other brands as well that do not use the Series 80 device. As others above have eloquently stated, disabling a factory installed safety is a legal risk not worth the trouble, especially when other suitable pistols readily exist.

March 18, 2000, 10:42 PM	#11
KSLawman Member Join Date: June 13, 1999 Posts: 31	I have to go along with most of the others. I don't like the Series '80 mechanism either. A friend of mine bought a stainless Colt Officer's 45 several years ago, and carried it for a week off duty before his department's annual qualification. When he tried to qualify with it, it wouldn't fire. Seems the lever that comes out of the frame to push the firing pin block out of the way was bent, and didn't touch the firing pin block. On the other hand, my wife's favorite pistol, also a stainless Officer's 45 (I gave it to her before I ever bought her a ring) has that feature, and I've left it in, but every time I clean the pistol, while it's still unloaded, I drop a pencil with a good eraser down the barrel, point it upward, and press the trigger. If the pencil ever doesn't pop out, the pistol will be out of service until it's either repaired or the doggone thing is removed and turned into something useful. I personally don't think that a Series '80 Colt with the firing pin block removed is any more dangerous than a Kimber, a Springfield, or a pre-Series '80 Colt, but I do realize that lawyers can and will jump on anything they can find to try to win a big settlement from you or your insurance carrier. No mechanical device is perfect, even our favorite handguns, and we must either learn to overcome their shortcomings or work around them in order to live with them. Stay safe, ------------------ Roger Shambaugh Ottawa, Kansas "No man who's in the wrong can stand against a man who knows he's right and keeps on a-comin'." Capt. Bill McDonald, Texas Rangers

March 19, 2000, 07:46 PM	#12
p1445 Member Join Date: September 13, 1999 Location: ga Posts: 34	The firing pin safty on a '80 series is sometimes removed to achieve a lighter triger pull. My IPSC gun, a p14-45 has had the firing pin safty removed to get a crisp 2lb triger pull. However, I wouldn't remove it on a carry gun. p1445

March 20, 2000, 03:30 PM	#13
RickB Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2000 Location: Boise, ID Posts: 8,518	I had a wait-and-see attitude about the S80 safety. Gritty, creepy trigger; beyond my level of patience to reassemble. Safety removed: great "factory" trigger, no more or less safe than my other 1911's. I wouldn't recommend that anyone take theirs out, but all you need is the shim and you're good to go.

March 21, 2000, 09:27 AM	#14
HS Senior Member Join Date: October 11, 1998 Location: Brisbane.....Australia Posts: 1,258	There are 2 levers in the frame to take out. You can refer to my parts chart at http://www.angelfire.com/id/parachat/parts.jpg Don't buy the A&B filler plate as it's undersized & too thin by about 5 tho', as I've just seen a friends one he bought to my house yesterday. ------------------ "The Gun from Down Under !" http://www.para1911fanclub.w3.to/ E-mail [email protected] Alternate E-mail [email protected]