still having problems with my mosin

mp25ds4 · March 8, 2009, 04:24 PM

Hello again, im still having problems chambering and un chambering cartridges in my 91/30. I tried the method with the drill and chamber brush but it didnt work so I dont think cosmoline is the problem, its almost like the chamber is to small for the shell.

here is a picture of the scratched casing

http://i705.photobucket.com/albums/w...8/IMG_3475.jpg

any advice?

jhenry · March 8, 2009, 04:56 PM

Without the rifle in front of me I hesitate to suggest anything else at this point other than to take it to a gunsmith and have him look the chamber over with a scope. I doubt the chamber was made that way because it would appear from the photo that the portion forward of the problem area is larger than the problem area. I am having problems seeing how a chamber reamer could do that during production. My guess is something happened well after production to booger the chamber.

OK, after some thought I will suggest just one thing. Get a section of brazing rod, not a skinny whippy piece either. File a chisel point on one end and poke around in the chamber. If it feels like there is some sort of built up area, then get at the edge of it and tap the rod with a hammer to see if you can pop it loose. The brazing rod if much softer than the steel so you will not scratch the chamber or gouge it. Don't go nuts with it. If this fails, get the gun to the smith.

Tom2 · March 8, 2009, 05:07 PM

IN any case, take out the bolt and look in the chamber. Doe the walls of the chamber look smooth and shiny? Or dull or pitted? With thousands and thousands of surplus used MNs coming in the country, it would suprise me if there were no duds in the mix of old communist made hardware. I mean, in WW2 the Russian factories were cranking them out in unbelievable quantities on a daily basis. My 1943 rifle looks like it was shaped with a file on the receiver. Like almost handmade. Suprisingly, this rough looking mega mass produced rifle shoots excellent groups. Might be the rebuild barrel. I guess the sticky cases is why they left the bayonets on them all the time! Little more effective than using it as a club, I guess.

mp25ds4 · March 8, 2009, 07:26 PM

ok thanks guys

Joe Botz · March 8, 2009, 10:40 PM

Get a Finnish M-39! Outstanding Rifle!

jsmaye · March 9, 2009, 07:41 AM

Quote:

Get a Finnish M-39! Outstanding Rifle!

There you go again...

Tom2 · March 9, 2009, 08:31 AM

Finns are nice if in good shape. Some of the imports lately have been rusty beater looking things, too. And priced way beyond what a Russian costs. If you could afford a Finn in real nice condition, they are the best MN's but that does not mean that you cannot get an ugly Russian to shoot well, assuming the bore is nice.

mp25ds4 · March 9, 2009, 06:12 PM

yea i saw some nice m39 at a gunshow for like 150$

Tom2 · March 9, 2009, 07:38 PM

The cheapest I have seen out of the lot of recent import Finns lately were a hundred dollars more than that, for starters, and they were not exactly in pristine condition like some of the earlier imports. I was not quite ready to drop 250+ on a beater Finn.

mp25ds4 · March 9, 2009, 08:03 PM

ok well i guess im just gona have to take it to my gunsmith, I got another mosin that survived through 2 wars (Vietnam, ww2 stalingrad?) thats got some pretty bad pitting and i need to get that one checked too.

James K · March 9, 2009, 09:21 PM

I can't be sure but that case appears to show signs of stretching, an indicator of way excessive headspace. I strongly suggest you have a gunsmith check it out before firing it again.

Jim

mp25ds4 · March 10, 2009, 06:42 AM

well it makes that scrape as soon as you shove the round into the chamber,
its almost like the chamber is too small

TEDDY · March 11, 2009, 09:13 PM

may be a broken shell in there.
mosins have the bayonet on because the gun was zeroed with it on.zero changes if taken off.

303 · April 12, 2009, 03:46 AM

Maybe it's just me, but I can't see any scratches on that case. It might help to have more detail about both the rifle and the ammunition. I have had some 7.62x54 ammo that was oversized and/or misshapen at the neck and bound in the neck area going in... Also, if it's an Izhevesk from about 1941-42, those typically look like rats were used to chew the metalwork. I've got one that makes a rasping noise like a file against metal when I work the bolt. Any metal part of one of those might have less than perfect dimensions and finish.

It might also be interesting to know if your rifle's headspace passes a GO gauge. It would be very unusual in an "old" rifle, but it could have less than minimum headspace.

Also, the Soviet manual for the Mosin Nagant instructed Soviet soldiers to wipe their ammo with an oily rag when filling their ammo pouches. It's amazing what a small amount of oil will do to help extraction of steel cases. Of course all of the conventional wisdom is that you just never, never, never fire oiled cartridge cases, so don't take my word for this. Read Terrence Lapin's translation. Also, that kind of extraction problem usually relates to lacquered steel cases, and your photo appears to show a copper washed case.

So... I dunno... but my first inclination would be to try some different ammo.

surg_res · April 18, 2009, 09:53 AM

Broken M.N.

Throw it away and buy another. $90 guns shouldn't cause so much stress.

claymore1500 · April 18, 2009, 12:25 PM

Quote:

still having problems with my mosin

I am just guessing, I have two mosin's, I don't have the problem that you are having, but if I were to apply some speculation to your problem I might think that due to years of using "steel cased ammo" there just might be a hairline ridge around the chamber mouth that would contact the case just about exactly where your pics show the scratches.

Also, using the chamber brush method that you have tried, would not take the ridge down because the bristles are running in line with the ridge.

I would suggest some VERY fine sand paper on a dowel rod, and just sand around the chamber mouth enough to smooth the ridge, Just a thought.

March 8, 2009, 04:24 PM	#1
mp25ds4 Senior Member Join Date: March 6, 2009 Posts: 392	still having problems with my mosin Hello again, im still having problems chambering and un chambering cartridges in my 91/30. I tried the method with the drill and chamber brush but it didnt work so I dont think cosmoline is the problem, its almost like the chamber is to small for the shell. here is a picture of the scratched casing http://i705.photobucket.com/albums/w...8/IMG_3475.jpg any advice?

March 8, 2009, 04:56 PM	#2
jhenry Senior Member Join Date: May 27, 2006 Location: Ozarks Posts: 1,840	Without the rifle in front of me I hesitate to suggest anything else at this point other than to take it to a gunsmith and have him look the chamber over with a scope. I doubt the chamber was made that way because it would appear from the photo that the portion forward of the problem area is larger than the problem area. I am having problems seeing how a chamber reamer could do that during production. My guess is something happened well after production to booger the chamber. OK, after some thought I will suggest just one thing. Get a section of brazing rod, not a skinny whippy piece either. File a chisel point on one end and poke around in the chamber. If it feels like there is some sort of built up area, then get at the edge of it and tap the rod with a hammer to see if you can pop it loose. The brazing rod if much softer than the steel so you will not scratch the chamber or gouge it. Don't go nuts with it. If this fails, get the gun to the smith. __________________ "A Liberal is someone who doesn't care what you do, as long as it's mandatory". - Charles Krauthammer

March 8, 2009, 05:07 PM	#3
Tom2 Senior Member Join Date: June 23, 2004 Location: Ohio Posts: 5,676	IN any case, take out the bolt and look in the chamber. Doe the walls of the chamber look smooth and shiny? Or dull or pitted? With thousands and thousands of surplus used MNs coming in the country, it would suprise me if there were no duds in the mix of old communist made hardware. I mean, in WW2 the Russian factories were cranking them out in unbelievable quantities on a daily basis. My 1943 rifle looks like it was shaped with a file on the receiver. Like almost handmade. Suprisingly, this rough looking mega mass produced rifle shoots excellent groups. Might be the rebuild barrel. I guess the sticky cases is why they left the bayonets on them all the time! Little more effective than using it as a club, I guess. __________________ Your gun is like your nose, it is just wrong for someone else to pick it for you!

March 9, 2009, 08:31 AM	#7
Tom2 Senior Member Join Date: June 23, 2004 Location: Ohio Posts: 5,676	Finns are nice if in good shape. Some of the imports lately have been rusty beater looking things, too. And priced way beyond what a Russian costs. If you could afford a Finn in real nice condition, they are the best MN's but that does not mean that you cannot get an ugly Russian to shoot well, assuming the bore is nice. __________________ Your gun is like your nose, it is just wrong for someone else to pick it for you!

March 9, 2009, 07:38 PM	#9
Tom2 Senior Member Join Date: June 23, 2004 Location: Ohio Posts: 5,676	The cheapest I have seen out of the lot of recent import Finns lately were a hundred dollars more than that, for starters, and they were not exactly in pristine condition like some of the earlier imports. I was not quite ready to drop 250+ on a beater Finn. __________________ Your gun is like your nose, it is just wrong for someone else to pick it for you!

March 8, 2009, 07:26 PM	#4
mp25ds4 Senior Member Join Date: March 6, 2009 Posts: 392	ok thanks guys

March 8, 2009, 10:40 PM	#5
Joe Botz Member Join Date: May 17, 2001 Location: Sayville/NY Posts: 46	Get a Finnish M-39! Outstanding Rifle!

March 9, 2009, 06:12 PM	#8
mp25ds4 Senior Member Join Date: March 6, 2009 Posts: 392	yea i saw some nice m39 at a gunshow for like 150$

March 9, 2009, 08:03 PM	#10
mp25ds4 Senior Member Join Date: March 6, 2009 Posts: 392	ok well i guess im just gona have to take it to my gunsmith, I got another mosin that survived through 2 wars (Vietnam, ww2 stalingrad?) thats got some pretty bad pitting and i need to get that one checked too.

March 9, 2009, 09:21 PM	#11
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	I can't be sure but that case appears to show signs of stretching, an indicator of way excessive headspace. I strongly suggest you have a gunsmith check it out before firing it again. Jim

March 10, 2009, 06:42 AM	#12
mp25ds4 Senior Member Join Date: March 6, 2009 Posts: 392	well it makes that scrape as soon as you shove the round into the chamber, its almost like the chamber is too small

March 11, 2009, 09:13 PM	#13
TEDDY Junior member Join Date: December 10, 2006 Location: MANNING SC Posts: 837	chamber may be a broken shell in there. mosins have the bayonet on because the gun was zeroed with it on.zero changes if taken off.

April 12, 2009, 03:46 AM	#14
303 Junior Member Join Date: April 8, 2009 Posts: 3	Maybe it's just me, but I can't see any scratches on that case. It might help to have more detail about both the rifle and the ammunition. I have had some 7.62x54 ammo that was oversized and/or misshapen at the neck and bound in the neck area going in... Also, if it's an Izhevesk from about 1941-42, those typically look like rats were used to chew the metalwork. I've got one that makes a rasping noise like a file against metal when I work the bolt. Any metal part of one of those might have less than perfect dimensions and finish. It might also be interesting to know if your rifle's headspace passes a GO gauge. It would be very unusual in an "old" rifle, but it could have less than minimum headspace. Also, the Soviet manual for the Mosin Nagant instructed Soviet soldiers to wipe their ammo with an oily rag when filling their ammo pouches. It's amazing what a small amount of oil will do to help extraction of steel cases. Of course all of the conventional wisdom is that you just never, never, never fire oiled cartridge cases, so don't take my word for this. Read Terrence Lapin's translation. Also, that kind of extraction problem usually relates to lacquered steel cases, and your photo appears to show a copper washed case. So... I dunno... but my first inclination would be to try some different ammo.

April 18, 2009, 09:53 AM	#15
surg_res Senior Member Join Date: September 29, 2005 Location: Texas, 5th GEN! Posts: 621	Broken M.N. Throw it away and buy another. $90 guns shouldn't cause so much stress. __________________ ----