How does Illinois waiting period work with out-of-state purchases?

C0untZer0 · July 17, 2011, 10:55 PM

Glock just recently did a production run of 17L. I don't know why gun dealers in Illinois charge so much. I found a guy out of state who will sell me a factory new 17L for $600 - taxes and shipping included.

LGD is selling the same pistol that they just received from Glock for $699.99 plus tax !

I've never purchased out-of-state. Does the seller do the background check on me and hold the pistol for 2 days before shipping? Does it go to my FFL in Illinois and then that guy holds it for 2 days before releasing it to me?

How does this work?

Davey · July 17, 2011, 11:01 PM

You have the seller send it to your FFL of choice. That FFL in IL will have to follow the IL law of 72 hours for handguns and 24 for long guns.

I'm not sure which FFL does the NICS check. Maybe both? Well, I guess that's assuming the seller is an FFL rather than just being a private seller.

maestro pistolero · July 18, 2011, 02:21 AM

The FFL who does the local transfer does the NICS check.

Wagonman · July 18, 2011, 12:19 PM

You will wait three days after FFL receives the gun. I can speak from experience.

Patriot86 · July 18, 2011, 12:35 PM

I don't know how it works at other LGS's but the couple I go to on a regular basis in the Chicago area charge in excess of $50.00-$80.00 per transfer on new guns.

Considering the price of your Glock unless you find a really cheap FFL that new Glock just jumped to $650-$680, why not try to haggle your LGD down or find another Glock dealer selling it for less?

If you can beat the LGD down a little or get some accessories thrown in then the difference is not worth the time and effort of the FFL transfer.

If you are up in the Chicago area PM me and I might have a place or two for you to check, I don’t know about their Glocks but they sell SIGS cheaper than I’ve ever seen then on gun broker.

Wagonman · July 18, 2011, 03:34 PM

where do you go? Shore's charged me 25 for a transfer......albeit a few years ago. GB has a search engine for FFLs and the one I used charged me $20 IIRC. PM me for his info

C0untZer0 · July 19, 2011, 12:12 AM

I haven’t done a ton of calling around, I called Gat Guns and they have a 17L for $699.99 plus tax. They also charge $50.00 for FFL transfer.

I want to mention M&M Firearms in Arlington Heights – they do the transfer for $20.00 – that is very cool.

I also want to mention JR Shooting Sports in Aurora – they charge $95.00 - very uncool. They can charge what they want and I don’t have to use their services. If I can do business with M&M Firearms in the future I definitely will. I don’t want to give business to JR Shooting Sports, but they are the closest range to me though so I probably will buy range time from them in the future.

So anyway, goingquiet.com in FL is offering 17L for $600.00 including transfer and shipping, so I can got my 17L for $620.00

But I'm willing to shop around some more locally...

Davey · July 19, 2011, 12:21 AM

$95 for a transfer?! They must really not want to do transfers.

Big Av · July 19, 2011, 12:26 AM

I have two FFLs in the Naperville area that I work with, one is $40 transfer fee, and the other a $20 transfer.

Patriot86 · July 19, 2011, 12:24 PM

@Wagonman: I do not want to name names here but this should be easy for you to figure out the one expensive place is in Des Plaines.

I am surprised to hear GAT guns is high price wise on Glocks, I have found them cheaper than just about anyone in the area (besides the occasional Cabelas sale) on SIGs and various types of shotguns.

I have been to Shore a few times. it is actually pretty close to where I work (Southern Border of Niles, right by where Touhy Ave crosses into Skokie) and the prices seemed good. They seem to stock a lot of Rock River Arms AR-15's so that’s probably where I am going to get my AR. The only problem with Shore for me is they are a LEO SIG dealer and considering I am not LEO they cannot sell me SIGS out of stock, they have to order them in.

@ Count: This may not be your bag, I am a bit bolder than most because I negotiate and buy/sell things all day long. Try showing up to the "cheapest" local place with $700.00 cash in hand. I would hazard a bet you could work something out with most gun stores and the overall purchase price would be comparable to the online price you found.

Another thing to consider is, I personally like buying guns from a place that has gunsmiths incase you have a problem out of the box. This way, if it is something simple you don't have to wait all sorts of days or week sending your gun back to the factory then waiting to get it back. I had a small problem with my 226 out of the box but the guys @ GAT fixed it in 60 seconds flat and sent me on my way.

C0untZer0 · July 19, 2011, 02:55 PM

I haven't been able to find dealers who have the 17L in stock.

Gat Guns has one but they are charging $699.00 (I double checked again just now...) plus tax ($48.93), plus $5.00 IL processing fee...

Even a 17L after all is just a Glock, you'd have to be a Glock nut to pay more than $700.00 for a Glock.

So anyway, I have the option to get it for $620 from a guy in Florida.

I want gun dealers to make money, if Gat Guns wasn't around where would I go to coon handle guns? But I am also all for competition - if the guys in Texas and Florida can make a good living selling these things for $600 then Gat Guns is making a KILLING!

C0untZer0 · July 19, 2011, 03:01 PM

I did talk to M&M and the guy - Mike Miljan said that once he gets it, I come in and fill out the paperwork, he starts the background check and the 72 hour wait period starts.

Not that I'm in a hurry, I have fun stuff I can shoot with in the meantime, but waiting does suck...

Anyway that's how ordering out-of-state into Illinois works.

Hazborgufen · July 20, 2011, 03:38 PM

Another option is the Cabela's in Hoffman Estates. They do transfers for $40 which isn't too awful considering the competition. They don't have a goofy "we won't do a transfer if we carry the same or similar item in the store" policy that some of the other area stores have. Plus, their hours are good too as they are open 7 days a week until fairly late in the evening. Most of the tabletop FFLs have better rates but also have very limited hours that just wouldn't work for me.

A buddy of mine used the FFL in Arlington Heights once. As I recall, their hours were "whenever I feel like being there."

This isn't to say that I love Cabela's or anything. It's just the most convenient option for me and their fee isn't egregious.

Onward Allusion · July 20, 2011, 04:16 PM

Quote:

also want to mention JR Shooting Sports in Aurora – they charge $95.00 - very uncool.

With more and more sales going through Gunbroker, they're gonna go under.

C0untZer0 · July 31, 2011, 09:23 AM

He doesn't seem to know what e-mail is and doesn't seem to be able to send a digital copy of his FFL to the gun dealer in Florida.

I wanted to give Mike the Florida gun dealer's e-mail contact info and Mike said I had to FAX it to him.

That was last week on the 25th. Five days have gone by now and the the guy I chose to do the FFL transfer here in Illinois still has not sent his a copy of his FFL over to the guy in Florida. I haven't called him over the weekend, but he didn't answer calls last week on Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday and Friday of last week.

I'm looking for another FFL dealer starting tomorrow.

I'm not sure why some people list themselves as FFL dealers on the Internet if they're not actually willing to do it? Or they are still in the stone age and use FAX machines and snail mail to do things? It takes 10 seconds to use a scanner to create a digital copy of your FFL and save it to a gif, a jpeg or a PDF file. A digital copy of an FFL can be sent via e-mail in about 2 minutes.

I wish would remove his name from the list of FFL dealers who do transfers.

I'm starting over tomorrow...

This time when I talk to people I am going to ask them:

1) Do you have a digital copy of your FFL that you can send via e-mail?

2) Do you have Internet access and an e-mail account?

3) Do you know how to attach a copy of your digital FFL to an e-mail and send that e-mail to the seller?

Ruger Man · August 1, 2011, 09:02 AM

I live in Carol Stream and don't bother with transfers or fees. I either go to GAT's or the Gun Doctor. They have plenty of guns for sale and you don't have to worry about any transfer fees since they both are FFL dealers.

Davey · August 1, 2011, 10:20 AM

Quote:

He doesn't seem to know what e-mail is and doesn't seem to be able to send a digital copy of his FFL to the gun dealer in Florida.

I wanted to give Mike the Florida gun dealer's e-mail contact info and Mike said I had to FAX it to him.

That was last week on the 25th. Five days have gone by now and the the guy I chose to do the FFL transfer here in Illinois still has not sent his a copy of his FFL over to the guy in Florida. I haven't called him over the weekend, but he didn't answer calls last week on Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday and Friday of last week.

I'm looking for another FFL dealer starting tomorrow.

If someone isn't willing to live in the 21st century they aren't worth doing business with, IMO. I would have given up after the second day.

C0untZer0 · August 1, 2011, 10:39 AM

Rugerman Gat Guns has one but they are charging $699.00, plus tax ($48.93), plus $5.00 IL processing fee...

That's $752.93 versus $621.49 (I had to send M&M a fax with the Florida Gun Dealer's e-mail. I could have done a digital fax but it was easier for me to just send it from a FedEx store and it cost $1.49 I could have gotten it for $620 total.

But hey, even taking into account the $1.49 for a fax - the out-of-state purchase is still way better than going through Gat Guns.

C0untZer0 · August 1, 2011, 12:46 PM

Still waiting for Sue at Cabella's in Hoffman Estates to call me back... let me see.. I think this makes 3 calls to her, and waiting for 2 weeks now.

Illinios doesn't really need a waiting period for when people order out-of-state.

The FFL rigmarole takes weeks by itself!

C0untZer0 · August 6, 2011, 10:43 AM

So last night I went and signed the paperwork. Mike at M&M Firearms told me he would call it in today (Saturday).

I didn't even know this was something that was called in.

So I guess I learned that they have certain business hours and thankfully they are open on Saturdays otherwise the 72 waiting period wouldn't even start for me until next Monday.

I started searching around on the Internet and I learned:

F.T.I.P. is the Illinois equivilant of the federal N.I.C.S. program. Illinois dealers must use FTIP and not NICS unless the Illinois system is down and use of NICS is authorized. Therefore, NICS cannot override FTIP in Illinois to make a faster transaction.

chadstrickland · August 6, 2011, 11:30 AM

Man alive

You guys catch some serious flack when you try to buy a gun..I go to my gun store and within ten minutes im walking out of it with my firearm

C0untZer0 · August 6, 2011, 02:33 PM

The 72 hours is a cool down period. So, if I'm angry at someone and I go buy a gun to kill them, I have to wait, and then after a while I cool down and I'm not mad anymore and I go back to the gun store and ask for my money back.

It's pretty difficult for me to stay angry at someone for a whole 72 hours - they would have had to have done something like grabbing my H&K P7M8 and sliding it across a concrete floor to get me so ****** off that I'd still be angry 72 hours later.

sigcurious · August 6, 2011, 05:00 PM

I just don't get how they justify it as a cool down period, but don't make an exception for transfer purchases. It's been way more than 72 hrs since I paid for my purchase. Sadly, my purchase should arrive today, or at least the USPS is pretending they're going to deliver it today, too bad the FFL is already closed for the day... ugh

Davey · August 6, 2011, 06:56 PM

Quote:

So I guess I learned that they have certain business hours and thankfully they are open on Saturdays otherwise the 72 waiting period wouldn't even start for me until next Monday.

In Illinois I'm pretty sure the 72 hour clock starts ticking the minute you agree to buy the gun, not when the background check goes through.

C0untZer0 · August 6, 2011, 08:48 PM

Don't some of the fields on the paperwork require the dealer to have info off the gun - like the serial number?

I think the receiving FFL needs to have the firearm in his possession and visualy verify that information is correct - but I could be wrong.

If the receiving FFL didn't have to do that, then I could have filled out the paperwork last week after my payment to goingquiet.com cleared. The florida dealer could have given the serial number, make & model to my recieving FFL here in Illinois, I could have gone and filled out the paperwork and the check FTIP & 72 hr waiting period could have started while the firearm was in transit.

But I don't think that can happen. The obvious thing is - what happens if a situation arises where the receiving FFL get the firearms and it has a different serial number or something, or I though tI was buying a 17L and the seller sent me a 17? Now you've got erroneous documentation filed with the state - kind of messy. I think the state would require better due diligence in checking the accuracy of the paperwrok. I mean - typos do happen, but the process of having the selling FFL tell the receiving FFL the info over the phone seems more error prone. A way to build in a check would be to require the receiving FFL to visually check the information he puts down on the paperwork.

I really don't know though... I'll ask Mike when I see him in 60 hours or so...

July 17, 2011, 10:55 PM	#1
C0untZer0 Junior member Join Date: April 21, 2011 Location: Illinois Posts: 4,555	How does Illinois waiting period work with out-of-state purchases? Glock just recently did a production run of 17L. I don't know why gun dealers in Illinois charge so much. I found a guy out of state who will sell me a factory new 17L for $600 - taxes and shipping included. LGD is selling the same pistol that they just received from Glock for $699.99 plus tax ! I've never purchased out-of-state. Does the seller do the background check on me and hold the pistol for 2 days before shipping? Does it go to my FFL in Illinois and then that guy holds it for 2 days before releasing it to me? How does this work?

July 19, 2011, 12:26 AM	#9
Big Av Member Join Date: January 19, 2011 Location: Naperville, IL Posts: 21	Naperville FFLs I have two FFLs in the Naperville area that I work with, one is $40 transfer fee, and the other a $20 transfer.

July 31, 2011, 09:23 AM	#15
C0untZer0 Junior member Join Date: April 21, 2011 Location: Illinois Posts: 4,555	The first FFL dealers I chose is not working out He doesn't seem to know what e-mail is and doesn't seem to be able to send a digital copy of his FFL to the gun dealer in Florida. I wanted to give Mike the Florida gun dealer's e-mail contact info and Mike said I had to FAX it to him. That was last week on the 25th. Five days have gone by now and the the guy I chose to do the FFL transfer here in Illinois still has not sent his a copy of his FFL over to the guy in Florida. I haven't called him over the weekend, but he didn't answer calls last week on Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday and Friday of last week. I'm looking for another FFL dealer starting tomorrow. I'm not sure why some people list themselves as FFL dealers on the Internet if they're not actually willing to do it? Or they are still in the stone age and use FAX machines and snail mail to do things? It takes 10 seconds to use a scanner to create a digital copy of your FFL and save it to a gif, a jpeg or a PDF file. A digital copy of an FFL can be sent via e-mail in about 2 minutes. I wish would remove his name from the list of FFL dealers who do transfers. I'm starting over tomorrow... This time when I talk to people I am going to ask them: 1) Do you have a digital copy of your FFL that you can send via e-mail? 2) Do you have Internet access and an e-mail account? 3) Do you know how to attach a copy of your digital FFL to an e-mail and send that e-mail to the seller?

August 6, 2011, 11:30 AM	#21
chadstrickland Senior Member Join Date: January 26, 2011 Location: alabama Posts: 537	Man alive You guys catch some serious flack when you try to buy a gun..I go to my gun store and within ten minutes im walking out of it with my firearm __________________ Two weapons that was designed by the same man still in use by the us military 100 years later...1911 and m2...is there anything that comes close.....lol annd maybe perhaps a sig sauer p226 tac ops edition..

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July 17, 2011, 11:01 PM	#2
Davey Senior Member Join Date: August 2, 2010 Location: Not far enough from Chicago Posts: 394	You have the seller send it to your FFL of choice. That FFL in IL will have to follow the IL law of 72 hours for handguns and 24 for long guns. I'm not sure which FFL does the NICS check. Maybe both? Well, I guess that's assuming the seller is an FFL rather than just being a private seller.

July 18, 2011, 02:21 AM	#3
maestro pistolero Senior Member Join Date: August 16, 2007 Posts: 2,153	The FFL who does the local transfer does the NICS check.

July 18, 2011, 12:19 PM	#4
Wagonman Senior Member Join Date: September 11, 2008 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 1,014	You will wait three days after FFL receives the gun. I can speak from experience.

July 18, 2011, 12:35 PM	#5
Patriot86 Senior Member Join Date: December 23, 2010 Location: Chicagoland Posts: 1,293	I don't know how it works at other LGS's but the couple I go to on a regular basis in the Chicago area charge in excess of $50.00-$80.00 per transfer on new guns. Considering the price of your Glock unless you find a really cheap FFL that new Glock just jumped to $650-$680, why not try to haggle your LGD down or find another Glock dealer selling it for less? If you can beat the LGD down a little or get some accessories thrown in then the difference is not worth the time and effort of the FFL transfer. If you are up in the Chicago area PM me and I might have a place or two for you to check, I don’t know about their Glocks but they sell SIGS cheaper than I’ve ever seen then on gun broker.

July 18, 2011, 03:34 PM	#6
Wagonman Senior Member Join Date: September 11, 2008 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 1,014	where do you go? Shore's charged me 25 for a transfer......albeit a few years ago. GB has a search engine for FFLs and the one I used charged me $20 IIRC. PM me for his info

July 19, 2011, 12:12 AM	#7
C0untZer0 Junior member Join Date: April 21, 2011 Location: Illinois Posts: 4,555	I haven’t done a ton of calling around, I called Gat Guns and they have a 17L for $699.99 plus tax. They also charge $50.00 for FFL transfer. I want to mention M&M Firearms in Arlington Heights – they do the transfer for $20.00 – that is very cool. I also want to mention JR Shooting Sports in Aurora – they charge $95.00 - very uncool. They can charge what they want and I don’t have to use their services. If I can do business with M&M Firearms in the future I definitely will. I don’t want to give business to JR Shooting Sports, but they are the closest range to me though so I probably will buy range time from them in the future. So anyway, goingquiet.com in FL is offering 17L for $600.00 including transfer and shipping, so I can got my 17L for $620.00 But I'm willing to shop around some more locally...

July 19, 2011, 12:21 AM	#8
Davey Senior Member Join Date: August 2, 2010 Location: Not far enough from Chicago Posts: 394	$95 for a transfer?! They must really not want to do transfers.

July 19, 2011, 12:24 PM	#10
Patriot86 Senior Member Join Date: December 23, 2010 Location: Chicagoland Posts: 1,293	@Wagonman: I do not want to name names here but this should be easy for you to figure out the one expensive place is in Des Plaines. I am surprised to hear GAT guns is high price wise on Glocks, I have found them cheaper than just about anyone in the area (besides the occasional Cabelas sale) on SIGs and various types of shotguns. I have been to Shore a few times. it is actually pretty close to where I work (Southern Border of Niles, right by where Touhy Ave crosses into Skokie) and the prices seemed good. They seem to stock a lot of Rock River Arms AR-15's so that’s probably where I am going to get my AR. The only problem with Shore for me is they are a LEO SIG dealer and considering I am not LEO they cannot sell me SIGS out of stock, they have to order them in. @ Count: This may not be your bag, I am a bit bolder than most because I negotiate and buy/sell things all day long. Try showing up to the "cheapest" local place with $700.00 cash in hand. I would hazard a bet you could work something out with most gun stores and the overall purchase price would be comparable to the online price you found. Another thing to consider is, I personally like buying guns from a place that has gunsmiths incase you have a problem out of the box. This way, if it is something simple you don't have to wait all sorts of days or week sending your gun back to the factory then waiting to get it back. I had a small problem with my 226 out of the box but the guys @ GAT fixed it in 60 seconds flat and sent me on my way.

July 19, 2011, 02:55 PM	#11
C0untZer0 Junior member Join Date: April 21, 2011 Location: Illinois Posts: 4,555	I haven't been able to find dealers who have the 17L in stock. Gat Guns has one but they are charging $699.00 (I double checked again just now...) plus tax ($48.93), plus $5.00 IL processing fee... Even a 17L after all is just a Glock, you'd have to be a Glock nut to pay more than $700.00 for a Glock. So anyway, I have the option to get it for $620 from a guy in Florida. I want gun dealers to make money, if Gat Guns wasn't around where would I go to coon handle guns? But I am also all for competition - if the guys in Texas and Florida can make a good living selling these things for $600 then Gat Guns is making a KILLING!

July 19, 2011, 03:01 PM	#12
C0untZer0 Junior member Join Date: April 21, 2011 Location: Illinois Posts: 4,555	I did talk to M&M and the guy - Mike Miljan said that once he gets it, I come in and fill out the paperwork, he starts the background check and the 72 hour wait period starts. Not that I'm in a hurry, I have fun stuff I can shoot with in the meantime, but waiting does suck... Anyway that's how ordering out-of-state into Illinois works.

July 20, 2011, 03:38 PM	#13
Hazborgufen Member Join Date: May 6, 2010 Posts: 23	Another option is the Cabela's in Hoffman Estates. They do transfers for $40 which isn't too awful considering the competition. They don't have a goofy "we won't do a transfer if we carry the same or similar item in the store" policy that some of the other area stores have. Plus, their hours are good too as they are open 7 days a week until fairly late in the evening. Most of the tabletop FFLs have better rates but also have very limited hours that just wouldn't work for me. A buddy of mine used the FFL in Arlington Heights once. As I recall, their hours were "whenever I feel like being there." This isn't to say that I love Cabela's or anything. It's just the most convenient option for me and their fee isn't egregious.

August 1, 2011, 09:02 AM	#16
Ruger Man Member Join Date: June 9, 2011 Location: Illinois Posts: 18	I live in Carol Stream and don't bother with transfers or fees. I either go to GAT's or the Gun Doctor. They have plenty of guns for sale and you don't have to worry about any transfer fees since they both are FFL dealers.

August 1, 2011, 10:39 AM	#18
C0untZer0 Junior member Join Date: April 21, 2011 Location: Illinois Posts: 4,555	Rugerman Gat Guns has one but they are charging $699.00, plus tax ($48.93), plus $5.00 IL processing fee... That's $752.93 versus $621.49 (I had to send M&M a fax with the Florida Gun Dealer's e-mail. I could have done a digital fax but it was easier for me to just send it from a FedEx store and it cost $1.49 I could have gotten it for $620 total. But hey, even taking into account the $1.49 for a fax - the out-of-state purchase is still way better than going through Gat Guns.

August 1, 2011, 12:46 PM	#19
C0untZer0 Junior member Join Date: April 21, 2011 Location: Illinois Posts: 4,555	Still waiting for Sue at Cabella's in Hoffman Estates to call me back... let me see.. I think this makes 3 calls to her, and waiting for 2 weeks now. Illinios doesn't really need a waiting period for when people order out-of-state. The FFL rigmarole takes weeks by itself!

August 6, 2011, 10:43 AM	#20
C0untZer0 Junior member Join Date: April 21, 2011 Location: Illinois Posts: 4,555	So last night I went and signed the paperwork. Mike at M&M Firearms told me he would call it in today (Saturday). I didn't even know this was something that was called in. So I guess I learned that they have certain business hours and thankfully they are open on Saturdays otherwise the 72 waiting period wouldn't even start for me until next Monday. I started searching around on the Internet and I learned: F.T.I.P. is the Illinois equivilant of the federal N.I.C.S. program. Illinois dealers must use FTIP and not NICS unless the Illinois system is down and use of NICS is authorized. Therefore, NICS cannot override FTIP in Illinois to make a faster transaction.

August 6, 2011, 02:33 PM	#22
C0untZer0 Junior member Join Date: April 21, 2011 Location: Illinois Posts: 4,555	The 72 hours is a cool down period. So, if I'm angry at someone and I go buy a gun to kill them, I have to wait, and then after a while I cool down and I'm not mad anymore and I go back to the gun store and ask for my money back. It's pretty difficult for me to stay angry at someone for a whole 72 hours - they would have had to have done something like grabbing my H&K P7M8 and sliding it across a concrete floor to get me so ****** off that I'd still be angry 72 hours later.

August 6, 2011, 05:00 PM	#23
sigcurious Senior Member Join Date: May 25, 2011 Posts: 1,755	I just don't get how they justify it as a cool down period, but don't make an exception for transfer purchases. It's been way more than 72 hrs since I paid for my purchase. Sadly, my purchase should arrive today, or at least the USPS is pretending they're going to deliver it today, too bad the FFL is already closed for the day... ugh

August 6, 2011, 08:48 PM	#25
C0untZer0 Junior member Join Date: April 21, 2011 Location: Illinois Posts: 4,555	Don't some of the fields on the paperwork require the dealer to have info off the gun - like the serial number? I think the receiving FFL needs to have the firearm in his possession and visualy verify that information is correct - but I could be wrong. If the receiving FFL didn't have to do that, then I could have filled out the paperwork last week after my payment to goingquiet.com cleared. The florida dealer could have given the serial number, make & model to my recieving FFL here in Illinois, I could have gone and filled out the paperwork and the check FTIP & 72 hr waiting period could have started while the firearm was in transit. But I don't think that can happen. The obvious thing is - what happens if a situation arises where the receiving FFL get the firearms and it has a different serial number or something, or I though tI was buying a 17L and the seller sent me a 17? Now you've got erroneous documentation filed with the state - kind of messy. I think the state would require better due diligence in checking the accuracy of the paperwrok. I mean - typos do happen, but the process of having the selling FFL tell the receiving FFL the info over the phone seems more error prone. A way to build in a check would be to require the receiving FFL to visually check the information he puts down on the paperwork. I really don't know though... I'll ask Mike when I see him in 60 hours or so...