Military Shotguns

SamHouston · March 23, 2008, 12:35 PM

Watching the Military channel this morning on Ranger Training it appeared one of the men carried a shotgun. They were practicing clearing rooms of buildings. Was this a shotgun I saw or some type of granade launcher ? If a shotgun, I assume there might be some advantage in close quarters.

cohoskip · March 23, 2008, 12:38 PM

Yep, they will get the job done in close quarters.

A friend of mine had to use one inside a building in Nam - blew out both his eardrums...

cavscout77 · March 23, 2008, 12:42 PM

They use them for breaching doors for the most part. I am sure there are some that use them as a primary weapon, but not many.

10-96 · March 23, 2008, 12:52 PM

Sure wish I had a SG in Iraq. Woulda been handy on convoys through urban areas, and perimeter duty, and TCN escorts. Maybe not as a primary weapon- but a couple on the team or one on the truck would have been nice.

hoytinak · March 23, 2008, 01:45 PM

Yep, it was prolly a 500....I've used one to breach many of buildings and vehicles while deployed.

Boris Bush · March 23, 2008, 02:59 PM

10-96

We had 3 shotguns per squad. Used mostly for breaching, and sometimes on BGs.

SamHouston · March 23, 2008, 09:48 PM

I assume it would be a 12 gauge. Would it be a slug or some type of buckshot?

Shorts · March 23, 2008, 09:50 PM

MAs & MPs at gate duty have them as well...I see them as I drive in.

hoytinak · March 23, 2008, 09:51 PM

Quote:

I assume it would be a 12 gauge. Would it be a slug or some type of buckshot?

Yep, 12ga...I was issued 00 Buck.

Kenpo · March 24, 2008, 01:29 PM

I just finished House to House by David Bellavia (a pretty good read about the battle of Fallujah, by the way) and he refers many times to a friend of his (another NCO) who carries a Mossberg 500 through the entire book, using it to breach, but also, apparently as a primary weapon. I thought that was interesting.

Doc TH · March 24, 2008, 08:09 PM

Read Martha Raddatz' book "The Long Road Home".

tony pasley · March 24, 2008, 08:55 PM

Pump shotguns have been used since WW 1. They have been very usful to troops in close quarters and crowds.

Blue Duck · March 24, 2008, 10:29 PM

Some semi-auto shotguns were used also, by foreign countrys. Often it was a Browning A5. Also, I was visiting with a friend of my dad's, who served as an advisor in the eairly part of Nam, and his preferred weapon was a Browning A5 with buckshot. He said that at that time, some of the the guys were sending back home for their family members, friends, etc to purchase a shotgun and send it to them. He also told me that the shotgun was a better killer then the M16, but he carried both, as did most of the people in his group. They also relied heavely on dogs.

MLeake · March 25, 2008, 08:22 AM

US troops were issued Winchester pump guns, not sure if on a squad support level, but they used them for trench clearing.

They were effective enough that the Germans put out bounties on shotgunners.

Cheers,

M

Caeser23 · March 25, 2008, 04:45 PM

we had 500s and 590s, 1 per vehicle, 95% in my posession

regular 00 buck

USMCGrunt · March 25, 2008, 05:41 PM

When I was in the Marines from 88-92, we had a few old M-1200s that were on their last leg and being replaced by Mossberg M590s. We also had a couple cut-down 870s with the top-folding stocks for VIP protection details. These days in the Air Force, the most common shotgun has been the M870 but it is being phased out with the newer M870 modular combat shotgun. The new shotgun is pretty much a Remington 870 but with more of the "tacti-cool" bells and whistles on it.

Deaf Smith · March 25, 2008, 10:05 PM

I understand in Iraq the Arab terrorist are plum scared of the 12 guage.

Allstar · March 25, 2008, 10:06 PM

Yes the Moss 500 is what is carried, it is used in clearing stateside, but usually only carried by breachers deployed.

loudes13 · March 25, 2008, 10:55 PM

Both weapons in one

SamHouston · March 26, 2008, 12:44 PM

That's a cool gun & the ultimate in Home Defense. I've wondered if any manufacturer made something similar for the civilian market

I assume the shotgun barrel would be to short.

Jason_G · March 26, 2008, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Both weapons in one

Quote:

That's a cool gun & the ultimate in Home Defense. I've wondered if any manufacturer made something similar for the civilian market

I assume the shotgun barrel would be to short.

Yeah, and the one in the pic has the XM26LSS, which AFIK is still considered experimental or might have even been scrapped by now, I don't know.

There is one that has an M4 with a Remington 870 (IIRC) mounted in the same configuration, called the "Masterkey". Made by KAC I believe, but I might be wrong. I'm not sure what's legally involved in owning a shortened barrel, but an 870/AR-15 combo could be feasible, albeit heavy and cumbersome, I guess.

Jason

tony pasley · March 26, 2008, 05:20 PM

A few years ago they had one on the market I forget who made it but it was an ar on top and 12 ga. semi-auto on bottom.

AmesJainchill · March 27, 2008, 09:12 AM

Quote:

I'm not sure what's legally involved in owning a shortened barrel, but an 870/AR-15 combo could be feasible, albeit heavy and cumbersome, I guess.

Probably an AOW.

20nickels · March 27, 2008, 09:30 AM

IMHO anything more than a single shot 12 or 20ga attached is too much/unwieldy. The good news is that simplifies things.

Technosavant · March 27, 2008, 10:43 AM

The Remington 870 MCS (Modular Combat System) is pretty close to what some of you all are describing. It can be used as a standalone shotgun or can be stripped down and slung underneath an AR. It uses a mag tube and not a box mag though.

March 23, 2008, 12:35 PM	#1
SamHouston Senior Member Join Date: December 11, 2007 Location: DFW Posts: 247	Military Shotguns Watching the Military channel this morning on Ranger Training it appeared one of the men carried a shotgun. They were practicing clearing rooms of buildings. Was this a shotgun I saw or some type of granade launcher ? If a shotgun, I assume there might be some advantage in close quarters. __________________ We do not inherit this land from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children

March 23, 2008, 12:38 PM	#2
cohoskip Senior Member Join Date: October 10, 2007 Location: Chimacum, WA Posts: 424	Yep, they will get the job done in close quarters. A friend of mine had to use one inside a building in Nam - blew out both his eardrums... __________________ To err is human, to forgive divine Neither is Marine Corps policy... NRA Life Member

March 23, 2008, 12:52 PM	#4
10-96 Senior Member Join Date: October 19, 2005 Location: Tx Panhandle Territory Posts: 4,159	Sure wish I had a SG in Iraq. Woulda been handy on convoys through urban areas, and perimeter duty, and TCN escorts. Maybe not as a primary weapon- but a couple on the team or one on the truck would have been nice. __________________ Rednecks... Keeping the woods critter-free since March 2, 1836. (TX Independence Day) I suspect a thing or two... because I've seen a thing or two.

March 23, 2008, 01:45 PM	#5
hoytinak Senior Member Join Date: July 5, 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 5,721	Yep, it was prolly a 500....I've used one to breach many of buildings and vehicles while deployed. Last edited by hoytinak; March 24, 2008 at 10:11 PM.

March 23, 2008, 09:48 PM	#7
SamHouston Senior Member Join Date: December 11, 2007 Location: DFW Posts: 247	Makes sense in close quarters I assume it would be a 12 gauge. Would it be a slug or some type of buckshot? __________________ We do not inherit this land from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children

March 23, 2008, 12:42 PM	#3
cavscout77 Member Join Date: March 17, 2008 Location: Duncan, NC Posts: 15	They use them for breaching doors for the most part. I am sure there are some that use them as a primary weapon, but not many.

March 23, 2008, 02:59 PM	#6
Boris Bush Junior member Join Date: September 7, 2007 Posts: 921	10-96 We had 3 shotguns per squad. Used mostly for breaching, and sometimes on BGs.

March 23, 2008, 09:50 PM	#8
Shorts Senior Member Join Date: November 21, 2004 Posts: 1,484	MAs & MPs at gate duty have them as well...I see them as I drive in.

March 24, 2008, 01:29 PM	#10
Kenpo Member Join Date: December 20, 2007 Posts: 46	I just finished House to House by David Bellavia (a pretty good read about the battle of Fallujah, by the way) and he refers many times to a friend of his (another NCO) who carries a Mossberg 500 through the entire book, using it to breach, but also, apparently as a primary weapon. I thought that was interesting.

March 24, 2008, 08:09 PM	#11
Doc TH Senior Member Join Date: December 15, 2005 Posts: 633	Military shotgun Read Martha Raddatz' book "The Long Road Home".

March 24, 2008, 08:55 PM	#12
tony pasley Senior Member Join Date: April 13, 2006 Location: western north carolina Posts: 1,641	Pump shotguns have been used since WW 1. They have been very usful to troops in close quarters and crowds.

March 24, 2008, 10:29 PM	#13
Blue Duck Senior Member Join Date: October 15, 2006 Posts: 402	Some semi-auto shotguns were used also, by foreign countrys. Often it was a Browning A5. Also, I was visiting with a friend of my dad's, who served as an advisor in the eairly part of Nam, and his preferred weapon was a Browning A5 with buckshot. He said that at that time, some of the the guys were sending back home for their family members, friends, etc to purchase a shotgun and send it to them. He also told me that the shotgun was a better killer then the M16, but he carried both, as did most of the people in his group. They also relied heavely on dogs.

March 25, 2008, 08:22 AM	#14
MLeake Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 2007 Location: Outside KC, MO Posts: 10,128	WWI US troops were issued Winchester pump guns, not sure if on a squad support level, but they used them for trench clearing. They were effective enough that the Germans put out bounties on shotgunners. Cheers, M

March 25, 2008, 04:45 PM	#15
Caeser23 Senior Member Join Date: August 19, 2006 Posts: 242	we had 500s and 590s, 1 per vehicle, 95% in my posession regular 00 buck

March 25, 2008, 05:41 PM	#16
USMCGrunt Senior Member Join Date: February 27, 2000 Location: Somewhere in 14T NT Posts: 730	When I was in the Marines from 88-92, we had a few old M-1200s that were on their last leg and being replaced by Mossberg M590s. We also had a couple cut-down 870s with the top-folding stocks for VIP protection details. These days in the Air Force, the most common shotgun has been the M870 but it is being phased out with the newer M870 modular combat shotgun. The new shotgun is pretty much a Remington 870 but with more of the "tacti-cool" bells and whistles on it.

March 25, 2008, 10:05 PM	#17
Deaf Smith Senior Member Join Date: October 31, 2000 Location: Texican! Posts: 4,453	I understand in Iraq the Arab terrorist are plum scared of the 12 guage. __________________ “To you who call yourselves ‘men of peace,’ I say, you are not safe without men of action by your side” Thucydides

March 25, 2008, 10:06 PM	#18
Allstar Member Join Date: March 7, 2008 Posts: 39	Yes the Moss 500 is what is carried, it is used in clearing stateside, but usually only carried by breachers deployed.

March 25, 2008, 10:55 PM	#19
loudes13 Junior Member Join Date: February 21, 2008 Posts: 3	Both weapons in one

March 26, 2008, 12:44 PM	#20
SamHouston Senior Member Join Date: December 11, 2007 Location: DFW Posts: 247	Combination rifle & shotgun That's a cool gun & the ultimate in Home Defense. I've wondered if any manufacturer made something similar for the civilian market I assume the shotgun barrel would be to short.

March 26, 2008, 05:20 PM	#22
tony pasley Senior Member Join Date: April 13, 2006 Location: western north carolina Posts: 1,641	A few years ago they had one on the market I forget who made it but it was an ar on top and 12 ga. semi-auto on bottom.

March 27, 2008, 09:30 AM	#24
20nickels Senior Member Join Date: July 2, 2007 Posts: 274	IMHO anything more than a single shot 12 or 20ga attached is too much/unwieldy. The good news is that simplifies things.

March 27, 2008, 10:43 AM	#25
Technosavant Senior Member Join Date: May 29, 2007 Location: St. Louis, MO area Posts: 4,040	The Remington 870 MCS (Modular Combat System) is pretty close to what some of you all are describing. It can be used as a standalone shotgun or can be stripped down and slung underneath an AR. It uses a mag tube and not a box mag though.