Police Shoot Handcuffed Man in the Back - Page 4

Wagonman · January 12, 2009, 03:20 AM

How's that, I didn't mention race at all. It is an term used when a lowlife regardless of color, creed, race etc. puts himself into a situation in which he is breaking the law and then sues the Police Department for injuries caused during the arrest process.

grymster2007 · January 12, 2009, 08:06 AM

If that's ghetto lotto, the cost of the ticket was pretty steep in this case.

divemedic · January 12, 2009, 08:21 AM

Quote:

His family just hit the ghetto lotto.

Another cop defends summary execution.

I didn't realize that resisting arrest was a death penalty offense that doesn't even deserve things like due process or all the formalities of a trial.

JuanCarlos · January 12, 2009, 09:35 AM

Did we ever determine whether the officer in question was wearing his Taser on the wrong side, leading to him drawing the gun accidentally? If so, that alone would be an action taken by the officer that would justify a finding of negligence, considering it both led to a death and that this result was foreseeable (hence the policy in the first place).

And that's beside the fact the the drive-stun mode would have been a more appropriate use of the Taser anyway (and presented a much lower risk to the suspect...Tasers being less than lethal, not non-lethal), and would also have prevented this death.

I honestly don't care if he spends any time in prison...I think all the mitigating factors mentioned should definitely be taken into account at sentencing, and I'd be fine with just the conviction. But I don't want to see this guy in another department two towns (or two states) over a year or two from now. He's proven he can't handle the responsibility. Not everybody can.

EDIT: Noting that the above is assuming that there aren't any crazy mitigating factors not shown in the video...which, while possible, does not fit in with any info released thus far since the release of said video. At this point I'm pretty comfortable taking the video at face value, which is to say that this was an entirely accidental shooting.

zxcvbob · January 12, 2009, 09:45 AM

Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner:

Quote:

Also, you should almost certainly be charged with a crime when making a mistake at work causes somebody to be killed. What crime you should be charged with will vary on circumstances. Whether or not you should be convicted depends on whether a jury believes that you were acting in good faith, whether there was any negligence involved, etc. The punishment should you be convicted would depend on other mitigating circumstances as well.

Excellent summary (IMHO.)

Chuckusaret · January 12, 2009, 11:24 AM

Quote: Wow, that is pretty racist right there.

It is " fact" based on the actions of one particular group of people of the same race I would not consider it as racist. 85% of all crimes committed are committed by one race group that makes up only 12% of the US population

pax · January 12, 2009, 11:40 AM

Quote:

We have heard of folks trying to reload with their cell phone (if that is true).

Glenn, with my own eyes I once watched a man try desperately to reload his semi-auto using a taclight. Took him a long couple of seconds before he came to himself & realized what he was doing. Happened during a FOF class. Convinced me to carry my taclight in my pocket, instead of next to the mag pouch.

pax

Al Norris · January 12, 2009, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wagonman

I am sorry, I can't work up sympathy for this piece of police fighting human debris that is causing my brothers in Oakland such aggravation. His family just hit the ghetto lotto.

Ghetto, in every dictionary, including legal dictionaries, refers to a section of a city/town wherein those of minority race reside. The phrase, "ghetto lottery," is racist in meaning and connotation. It is off topic, everywhere on TFL, not just this particular forum.

There are dozens of ways to express the highlighted portion above, without delving into blatant racism. This is obvious, as the sentence preceeding the offending remark, shows such an expression.

I have left all the references to this offense, as they were written, as an example of the kind of post that will get your posting privileges for L&CR revoked and the kind of followup posts that would normally be deleted.

The warning is simple. You see something that is offensive, report it, but don't comment upon it. Why? Because if what you reported is deemed to be something we would not like here, then it and all references to it will be deleted.

arktravler · January 12, 2009, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wagonman
I am sorry, I can't work up sympathy for this piece of police fighting human debris that is causing my brothers in Oakland such aggravation.

Typical cop vs citizen attitude..

Playboypenguin · January 12, 2009, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Typical cop vs citizen attitude..

Typical of that attitude, yes...but that attitude is not typical of all cops. Most of the officers I served with were fine people. Not all, but most. Just like in real life, on this forum the bad apples make the most noise.

Eskimo · January 12, 2009, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Quote: Wow, that is pretty racist right there.

It is " fact" based on the actions of one particular group of people of the same race I would not consider it as racist. 85% of all crimes committed are committed by one race group that makes up only 12% of the US population

This is what I try to tell everyone, and i'm called racist for it. A statistical fact is not the same as racism.

Eskimo · January 12, 2009, 01:42 PM

Race, Crime and Justice in America
The Color
of
Crime
New Century Foundation
Oakton, VA 22124

Second, Expanded Edition
Major Findings
• Police and the justice system are not biased against minorities.
Crime Rates
• Blacks are seven times more likely than people of other races to commit murder,
and eight times more likely to commit robbery.
• When blacks commit crimes of violence, they are nearly three times more likely
than non-blacks to use a gun, and more than twice as likely to use a knife.
• Hispanics commit violent crimes at roughly three times the white rate, and
Asians commit violent crimes at about one quarter the white rate.
• The single best indicator of violent crime levels in an area is the percentage of
the population that is black and Hispanic.
Interracial Crime
• Of the nearly 770,000 violent interracial crimes committed every year involving
blacks and whites, blacks commit 85 percent and whites commit 15 percent.
• Blacks commit more violent crime against whites than against blacks. Fortyfive
percent of their victims are white, 43 percent are black, and 10 percent are
Hispanic. When whites commit violent crime, only three percent of their victims are
black.
• Blacks are an estimated 39 times more likely to commit a violent crime against
a white than vice versa, and 136 times more likely to commit robbery.
• Blacks are 2.25 times more likely to commit officially-designated hate crimes
against whites than vice versa.
Gangs
• Only 10 percent of youth gang members are white.
• Hispanics are 19 times more likely than whites to be members of youth gangs.
Blacks are 15 times more likely, and Asians are nine times more likely.
Incarceration
• Between 1980 and 2003 the US incarceration rate more than tripled, from 139
to 482 per 100,000, and the number of prisoners increased from 320,000 to 1.39
million.
• Blacks are seven times more likely to be in prison than whites. Hispanics are
three times more likely.

Glenn E. Meyer · January 12, 2009, 01:54 PM

I'm closing this. A discussion of what occurred such that the person was shot is legit. A discussion of the demographics of crime to somehow justify the shooting is not.

Glenn

Al Norris · January 12, 2009, 01:54 PM

Kinda tells me the thread has rune its course.

(looks like Glenn beat me to it, by mere seconds!

)

January 12, 2009, 08:06 AM	#77
grymster2007 Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2007 Location: In the oak studded hills near Napa Posts: 2,203	If that's ghetto lotto, the cost of the ticket was pretty steep in this case. __________________ grym

January 12, 2009, 09:35 AM	#79
JuanCarlos Senior Member Join Date: July 22, 2006 Posts: 2,459	Did we ever determine whether the officer in question was wearing his Taser on the wrong side, leading to him drawing the gun accidentally? If so, that alone would be an action taken by the officer that would justify a finding of negligence, considering it both led to a death and that this result was foreseeable (hence the policy in the first place). And that's beside the fact the the drive-stun mode would have been a more appropriate use of the Taser anyway (and presented a much lower risk to the suspect...Tasers being less than lethal, not non-lethal), and would also have prevented this death. I honestly don't care if he spends any time in prison...I think all the mitigating factors mentioned should definitely be taken into account at sentencing, and I'd be fine with just the conviction. But I don't want to see this guy in another department two towns (or two states) over a year or two from now. He's proven he can't handle the responsibility. Not everybody can. EDIT: Noting that the above is assuming that there aren't any crazy mitigating factors not shown in the video...which, while possible, does not fit in with any info released thus far since the release of said video. At this point I'm pretty comfortable taking the video at face value, which is to say that this was an entirely accidental shooting. Last edited by JuanCarlos; January 12, 2009 at 10:05 AM.

January 12, 2009, 01:54 PM	#88
Glenn E. Meyer Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2000 Posts: 20,064	I'm closing this. A discussion of what occurred such that the person was shot is legit. A discussion of the demographics of crime to somehow justify the shooting is not. Glenn __________________ NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc. - Aux Armes, Citoyens

January 12, 2009, 03:20 AM	#76
Wagonman Senior Member Join Date: September 11, 2008 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 1,014	How's that, I didn't mention race at all. It is an term used when a lowlife regardless of color, creed, race etc. puts himself into a situation in which he is breaking the law and then sues the Police Department for injuries caused during the arrest process.

January 12, 2009, 11:24 AM	#81
Chuckusaret Junior member Join Date: December 5, 2008 Location: Florida Posts: 708	Quote: Wow, that is pretty racist right there. It is " fact" based on the actions of one particular group of people of the same race I would not consider it as racist. 85% of all crimes committed are committed by one race group that makes up only 12% of the US population

January 12, 2009, 01:42 PM	#87
Eskimo Senior Member Join Date: October 18, 2008 Posts: 173	Race, Crime and Justice in America The Color of Crime New Century Foundation Oakton, VA 22124 Second, Expanded Edition Major Findings • Police and the justice system are not biased against minorities. Crime Rates • Blacks are seven times more likely than people of other races to commit murder, and eight times more likely to commit robbery. • When blacks commit crimes of violence, they are nearly three times more likely than non-blacks to use a gun, and more than twice as likely to use a knife. • Hispanics commit violent crimes at roughly three times the white rate, and Asians commit violent crimes at about one quarter the white rate. • The single best indicator of violent crime levels in an area is the percentage of the population that is black and Hispanic. Interracial Crime • Of the nearly 770,000 violent interracial crimes committed every year involving blacks and whites, blacks commit 85 percent and whites commit 15 percent. • Blacks commit more violent crime against whites than against blacks. Fortyfive percent of their victims are white, 43 percent are black, and 10 percent are Hispanic. When whites commit violent crime, only three percent of their victims are black. • Blacks are an estimated 39 times more likely to commit a violent crime against a white than vice versa, and 136 times more likely to commit robbery. • Blacks are 2.25 times more likely to commit officially-designated hate crimes against whites than vice versa. Gangs • Only 10 percent of youth gang members are white. • Hispanics are 19 times more likely than whites to be members of youth gangs. Blacks are 15 times more likely, and Asians are nine times more likely. Incarceration • Between 1980 and 2003 the US incarceration rate more than tripled, from 139 to 482 per 100,000, and the number of prisoners increased from 320,000 to 1.39 million. • Blacks are seven times more likely to be in prison than whites. Hispanics are three times more likely.

January 12, 2009, 01:54 PM	#89
Al Norris Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 29, 2000 Location: Rupert, Idaho Posts: 9,660	Kinda tells me the thread has rune its course. (looks like Glenn beat me to it, by mere seconds! )