primer pocket cleaning .. is it really needed? - Page 2

Bottom Gun · September 6, 2007, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Anyway, I don't think anyone in here is down on your methods if that's what you like. But you seem to have a chip on your shoulder concerning other's preferences for their methods.

No, not at all. No chip here. I'm enjoying this exchange.

It is making me feel better about my reloading technique since I don't go through nearly as much as some guys do.

Wildalaska · September 6, 2007, 02:21 PM

Quote:

It is making me feel better about my reloading technique since I don't go through nearly as much as some guys do

But your not having as much fun! If your handloads don't gleam, ya cant turn off all the lights at 3 am and shine your surefire on them from different angles and make rocket ship noises!

Too bad I use Lapua brass, it would be an excersize in futility to try and sort cases by primer pocket depth! What a deprivation!

WilditsalongwinterAlaska TM

temmi · September 6, 2007, 02:40 PM

I see this issue a lot... I just posted this on a different site...

I understand a lot of people do not believe you get much with case prep but…

I do so my drill is:

FL size
Trim to uniform length
Deburr & Camphor Necks
Deburr Flash Holes
Uniform Neck Thickness
Uniform Primer Pockets
Weigh & Sort into 0.5gr +/- lots

For my 30-06 (700BDL) and 338 WM (MGA) and did see positive results in both Rifles.
The last thing I added was the neck turning and I do admit I saw no difference there.

In addition I weigh every Charge & weigh and sort the bullets, which in my mind also helps…

I am the first to admit that my approach was unscientific so it may all be in my head…

There is one advantage with all the weighing and sorting… when I weigh the completed round I know the weigh range +/- .4 Gr…

It may just be I have more time to load than to shoot.

Bottom Gun · September 6, 2007, 03:04 PM

Quote:

But your not having as much fun! If your handloads don't gleam, ya cant turn off all the lights at 3 am and shine your surefire on them from different angles and make rocket ship noises!

I stand corrected. I had no idea there were such benefits to sparkling brass.

I have to admit the real reason I don't clean out my pockets is because my ex cleaned them a long time ago for me.

Another reason is because I am as lazy as the day is long. Why I'm so lazy, I even married a pregnant woman once.

Slamfire · September 6, 2007, 04:46 PM

Quote:

I don't weigh anything but powder, I don't check runout, I don't sort brass or load from the same lot, or use benchrest primers. I also do some things which might horrify some such as not trimming brass every single loading, mixing commercial brass with military, I seldom weigh individual charges and I use small rifle primers in pistol cases.

Horrors!

Don't you know that you can compensate for poor shooting skills by purchasing expensive reloading gadgets? I read it in a Gun Magazine. It must be true.

Reloading equipment manufacturers are going to find you, and send their shill Gunwriters to beat you up!!!!

Wildalaska · September 6, 2007, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Don't you know that you can compensate for poor shooting skills by purchasing expensive reloading gadgets?

EVERYTHING about guns is compensation, don'tcha know? I'm waiting for the next Smilin Bob commercial with a 50 BMG

WildrosiesaysiaminadequateAlaska TM

Bottom Gun · September 6, 2007, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Don't you know that you can compensate for poor shooting skills by purchasing expensive reloading gadgets? I read it in a Gun Magazine. It must be true. Reloading equipment manufacturers are going to find you, and send their shill Gunwriters to beat you up!!!!

My shooting skills are OK, I'm just a lazy reloader. I freely admit it.

I thought my reloading gadgets WERE expensive. Maybe I just don't have enough of them?

Slamfire · September 6, 2007, 06:21 PM

Quote:

I thought my reloading gadgets WERE expensive. Maybe I just don't have enough of them?

Oh, they are expensive. But you can never have too many of them. And then there is that "Restless Leg Syndrome".

Life, and shooting, is just full of ills that can only be cured by spending lots of money.

Or so I have heard.

Mach II Sailor · September 7, 2007, 09:35 AM

BG,

Quote:

I guess I'm just a renegade because I don't bother with barrel break in either.

same here pal !

Quote:

I think if you examine your brass you will find tumbling does not clean the inside nearly as well as the outside

right on !!

Quote:

I'm coming up on 33 years of reloading,

if i didn't have 50+ years reloading i would have to say you were my instructor

i once was a fairly serious bench rest shooter, i followed all "carved in stone" practices of the "sport"

then one day i decided to experiment by not cleaning after every 5 rounds, used my regular varmit rounds and plinking rounds, after 50 rounds fired i went for the accuracy, the difference was so negligible i quit BR shooting sold all my BR stuff, took up my SP-1 and had more fun and enjoyed shooting much more !!

Wildalaska · September 7, 2007, 01:02 PM

I had some Norma 1x fired brass I was loading last night (oooooo, wait till you see the pics)...

Hit the primer pockets with Q Tip and all this gunk came flying out...never seen that much ash before in my life!!! Must be the Norma primers.

I collected it all in a bag so when I put my Tinkerbelle outfit on for Halloween I can use it as fairy dust.

Every facet of life must involve a gun somehow

WildlightintheloafersAlaska TM

Bottom Gun · September 7, 2007, 01:18 PM

Mach II Sailor,

I agree. It's much more fun flying by the seat of your pants when you reload rather than following all the "accepted" procedures.

Quote:

I collected it all in a bag so when I put my Tinkerbelle outfit on for Halloween I can use it as fairy dust.

Pics, please?

mactex · September 7, 2007, 06:41 PM

It all depends. I recently helped someone figure out a misfire problem. The cause: not cleaning the primer pockets. It only happened on one particular gun and it turns out that the gun in question had a compartively weak firing pin spring. The combination of not cleaning the primer pockets along with the soft spring caused one or two misfires out of every fifty rounds when the pockets were not cleaned.

Since I know it will come up, there was nothing wrong with the spring. It was a fairly new factory spring of the correct specs for this particular pistol. Also, all factory ammo the person tried worked fine in the pistol.

joneb · September 7, 2007, 10:11 PM

primer pocket cleaning .. is it really needed?

Well what are you after ? Accuracy, reliability or both ? My philosophy for reloading is "just be consistent" uncleaned primer pockets is a unpredictable variable, I try to get rid of those. I can take crappy reloading equipment and get match grade accuracy just by indexing my loads and orientating those loads in the same position in the firearm.
Some people think the AMC Pacer is the greatest automobile ever made

but it is the only car they ever drove

Mach II Sailor · September 8, 2007, 09:11 AM

forget P.P.s for a moment and concentrate on the flash hole, have any of you ever checked the inconsistancies of flash holes ? and the inside of the case where you normally can not see there is usually a "burr" have any of you ever considered how THAT effects accuracy and consistancy ?? this "burr" concerns me far more than a cruddy P.P.

try this if you have a chrono. get or make a reamer at 45 degree angle, .222 dia. (i made my own, i have hobby machine shop) and de-burr the inside of the flash hole and take out just enough brass to form a 45 deg. "funnel" like taper in the F.H., load 20 or so rounds with your favorite load then Chrono. them and check for accuracy.., you will be surprized at the results.

i have also experimented with "flash tubes" in larger calibers, if you have seen the inside of a large shell (40mm, 105mm and 5" .38cal.) you have seen the "flash tube" protruding about 2/3rds from the base, this causes the powder to ignite from the front of the round and no unburned powder escapes the muzzle.......

BUT !! BE FOREWARNED

REDUCE POWDER LOADS 15 TO 20% !!!!!!!

as these tubes will increase velocity and chamber pressure even with less powder, but the results are amazing !!

in another note i said i had over 50 years reloading experience, i gained much of my reloading experience from guys like Naramore, Hatcher, Ackley, and others.

Linear Thinker · September 8, 2007, 10:45 AM

Let's forget for a moment about the technical and practical reasons for cleaning the primer pockets, and concentrate on emotional ones:

My best handloads, the kind I would take to Perry or any other match, get a lot of love. The brass gets polished and degreased, the primer pockets get scrubbed, the bullets get sorted by weight, the powder gets weighted, the primers get seated with a Sinclair, the bullets get seated on the ogive.

I cannot prove that the obsessiveness/retentiveness (take your pick) helps me in any way. But I know that if I don't do the above steps, I will feel that I have not done my best in prepping for the match, and my scores will suffer.
LT

P.S. I recommend an ultrasonic cleaner as a vital reloading accessory. Nothing gets the crud off the cases as well as zapping the brass for 20 min with a 409 solution. It cleans the primer pockets as well, but only if you deprime beforehand.

September 6, 2007, 02:40 PM	#28
temmi Senior Member Join Date: June 13, 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 531	I see this issue a lot... I just posted this on a different site... I understand a lot of people do not believe you get much with case prep but… I do so my drill is: FL size Trim to uniform length Deburr & Camphor Necks Deburr Flash Holes Uniform Neck Thickness Uniform Primer Pockets Weigh & Sort into 0.5gr +/- lots For my 30-06 (700BDL) and 338 WM (MGA) and did see positive results in both Rifles. The last thing I added was the neck turning and I do admit I saw no difference there. In addition I weigh every Charge & weigh and sort the bullets, which in my mind also helps… I am the first to admit that my approach was unscientific so it may all be in my head… There is one advantage with all the weighing and sorting… when I weigh the completed round I know the weigh range +/- .4 Gr… It may just be I have more time to load than to shoot. Last edited by temmi; September 6, 2007 at 03:13 PM.

September 7, 2007, 06:41 PM	#37
mactex Member Join Date: December 22, 2006 Posts: 62	Is is necessary? It depends It all depends. I recently helped someone figure out a misfire problem. The cause: not cleaning the primer pockets. It only happened on one particular gun and it turns out that the gun in question had a compartively weak firing pin spring. The combination of not cleaning the primer pockets along with the soft spring caused one or two misfires out of every fifty rounds when the pockets were not cleaned. Since I know it will come up, there was nothing wrong with the spring. It was a fairly new factory spring of the correct specs for this particular pistol. Also, all factory ammo the person tried worked fine in the pistol.

September 7, 2007, 01:02 PM	#35
Wildalaska Junior member Join Date: November 25, 2002 Location: In my own little weird world in Anchorage, Alaska Posts: 14,172	I had some Norma 1x fired brass I was loading last night (oooooo, wait till you see the pics)... Hit the primer pockets with Q Tip and all this gunk came flying out...never seen that much ash before in my life!!! Must be the Norma primers. I collected it all in a bag so when I put my Tinkerbelle outfit on for Halloween I can use it as fairy dust. Every facet of life must involve a gun somehow WildlightintheloafersAlaska TM

September 7, 2007, 10:11 PM	#38
joneb Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 2005 Location: Central , OR Posts: 1,888	primer pocket cleaning .. is it really needed? Well what are you after ? Accuracy, reliability or both ? My philosophy for reloading is "just be consistent" uncleaned primer pockets is a unpredictable variable, I try to get rid of those. I can take crappy reloading equipment and get match grade accuracy just by indexing my loads and orientating those loads in the same position in the firearm. Some people think the AMC Pacer is the greatest automobile ever made but it is the only car they ever drove

September 8, 2007, 09:11 AM	#39
Mach II Sailor Junior member Join Date: March 22, 2007 Posts: 480	forget P.P.s for a moment and concentrate on the flash hole, have any of you ever checked the inconsistancies of flash holes ? and the inside of the case where you normally can not see there is usually a "burr" have any of you ever considered how THAT effects accuracy and consistancy ?? this "burr" concerns me far more than a cruddy P.P. try this if you have a chrono. get or make a reamer at 45 degree angle, .222 dia. (i made my own, i have hobby machine shop) and de-burr the inside of the flash hole and take out just enough brass to form a 45 deg. "funnel" like taper in the F.H., load 20 or so rounds with your favorite load then Chrono. them and check for accuracy.., you will be surprized at the results. i have also experimented with "flash tubes" in larger calibers, if you have seen the inside of a large shell (40mm, 105mm and 5" .38cal.) you have seen the "flash tube" protruding about 2/3rds from the base, this causes the powder to ignite from the front of the round and no unburned powder escapes the muzzle....... BUT !! BE FOREWARNED REDUCE POWDER LOADS 15 TO 20% !!!!!!! as these tubes will increase velocity and chamber pressure even with less powder, but the results are amazing !! in another note i said i had over 50 years reloading experience, i gained much of my reloading experience from guys like Naramore, Hatcher, Ackley, and others.

September 8, 2007, 10:45 AM	#40
Linear Thinker Senior Member Join Date: February 10, 2007 Location: Blue State, NE US Posts: 202	Let's forget for a moment about the technical and practical reasons for cleaning the primer pockets, and concentrate on emotional ones: My best handloads, the kind I would take to Perry or any other match, get a lot of love. The brass gets polished and degreased, the primer pockets get scrubbed, the bullets get sorted by weight, the powder gets weighted, the primers get seated with a Sinclair, the bullets get seated on the ogive. I cannot prove that the obsessiveness/retentiveness (take your pick) helps me in any way. But I know that if I don't do the above steps, I will feel that I have not done my best in prepping for the match, and my scores will suffer. LT P.S. I recommend an ultrasonic cleaner as a vital reloading accessory. Nothing gets the crud off the cases as well as zapping the brass for 20 min with a 409 solution. It cleans the primer pockets as well, but only if you deprime beforehand.