shallow

salvadore · October 8, 2010, 01:57 PM

I purchased a Lee 6 cavity 44 rn 240...ummm250,,,gr mold and cast up a few to try em out. my normal unsized lube method didn't work well so I ran them thru my lyman lubersizer, which is a good lubersizer if you don't plan on doing much shooting. My concern is the niggardly amount of lube the grooves accept. I'm use to lyman's older designs that accerpt lotsa lube. Has anyone found this to be a problem? I also have a lee 8mm mold I haven't tried yet and it also has teensy (technical term) lube grooves, the truncated .45 230 gr mold seems to be okee pokee, the groove isnt deep but is quite a bit wider. anyone anyone?

Rangefinder · October 8, 2010, 02:26 PM

You say the lube groove are really small and shallow? Did you be TL molds? As in "Tumble Lube"... Those aren't meant to take conventional hard lube. Photos are always a helpful addition.

zippy13 · October 8, 2010, 03:28 PM

Rangefinder is on the mark about Lee's tumble lube. Take a look at the mold's box, is there a TL (tumble lube) prefix to the part number? The OP indicated a RN and Lee's 429-240-2RN has their conventional grooves, it's the TL340-240-SWC that is a tumble lube. And, yes, some Lee molds have bigger grooves than others. I've found some of the Lee conventional bullets are happier with heated wax lubrication. I shoot Lee's 429-214-SWC and would be happier if it were grooved like their 452-200-SWC.

salvadore · October 8, 2010, 04:46 PM

No it's not a tumble lube design, I just can't get all twitterpated about them. Itsa regular two groove design whith crimp groove, I sized and loaded up about 70 of them but won't get out until monday or tuesday.....I was just concerned about the small amount of lube the design takes, particularly the 8mm one. As stated I have used their truncated230 gr design without a problem, but it seems to allow more lube in its groove

GP100man · October 8, 2010, 07:42 PM

How much ya sizing em down ???

.002.003 should`nt be any problem even on a tl but if the grooves are that shallow

I aquired a lee 90434 (obsolete) a 270gr. swc for the 44 & it has 3 shallow grooves, does yours look like these ????

TXGunNut · October 8, 2010, 09:07 PM

As you know I'm a newbie caster, Sal, but my research tells me smokeless powder loads need less lube than black powder. Old moulds were designed for BP loads. New moulds are mostly designed with smokeless powder in mind and have shallower lube grooves. I'm sticking with the old BP style moulds and SPG for now and I'm not doing the 44 mag...yet. I think you'll be fine with this mould but may need a bit harder lube, one designed for higher pressure/velocity. FWIW SPG worked well in my 45-70 for loads up to 1500fps so far, maybe even higher.
Hey, you've got the moulds and cast the boolits, Sal. Give it a try! Let us know how it works. Richard Lee has forgotten more about moulds, boolits and reloading than most of us will ever know.

dahermit · October 8, 2010, 09:48 PM

Quote:

...My concern is the niggardly amount of lube the grooves accept...

It has been observed by shooting cast lead bullets into snow and then recovering them that almost all the lube is still intact within the grooves no matter how hot the load was. Therefore, it has been opined by many bullet casters that a very small amount of lube is sufficient even for the hottest loads. Some casters will only lube the last groove in multi-grooved bullet designs.
I would suggest that you shoot the bullets and see if they perform without leading and not worry about how much lube they hold.

Rangefinder · October 9, 2010, 10:12 AM

^^ Good observation, I noticed the same thing. Fired my Winchester last winter quite a bit. Ended up finding a pretty good pile of bullets in the spring after everything melted off. Low and behold, nearly all of 'em still had lube in the grooves.

Sal, there really is just one way to see how they're gonna work... Go shoot 'em! Then hit us back with a range report!

salvadore · October 9, 2010, 11:39 AM

Well you guys are reassuring, I'll try and get out the first of the week. My 8mm molds are the lee with its two shallow grooves and a lyman rn gc with about a gazzilion grooves (pope style?). I'm hoping to multi task one of these for use in my 32 spec. Got a lot of projects for the winter.

snuffy · October 9, 2010, 04:56 PM

The 8 mm with multiple lube grooves is a loverrin,(SP?). style. They work too. I just finished sizing some 45/70 420 bullets that use wide, shallow lube grooves. Lubing both grooves uses 1.9 grains of lube!

That should be plenty to let the bullet slide down the bore. Modern lube works better with less than the old bear tallow used on the black powder bullets.

lwknight · October 10, 2010, 02:54 AM

Quote:
...My concern is the niggardly amount of lube the grooves accept...

You made me check the dictionary on that one.

2 : provided in meanly limited supply : SCANTY *the country has been handicapped by niggardly transport resources V.H.Whitney*
synonyms see STINGY

salvadore · October 11, 2010, 05:56 PM

thanks snuff, lovern,sharp, pope...egads...I believe niggardly comes from a scandanavian root less someone thinks it is somehow related to the "N" word.

salvadore · October 12, 2010, 02:58 PM

Okee pokee, went out and shot apx 80 rds in two shooters, my blackhawk flat top and amodel 21 Classic. Both shot as good is I shoot, not very, and the barrels cleaned up with a brash brush and dry patch. The 21 may have some lead left in its really rough tool marks in the grooves but looks fine. I'm pushing them between 700/800 fps. Found a bullet with about 1/2 the lube left, but coulda lost some in the sand. Think I'll load up a bunch for casual can killing.

TXGunNut · October 13, 2010, 06:35 AM

Sounds good, glad it worked out! How's the .32 project coming?

salvadore · October 13, 2010, 07:16 AM

Slow Tex, purchased a Lyman reciever sight after noting how well I could see the factory sights. My smith told me he didn't have time to drill and tap due to hunting season needs etc. so I bought the drill bits and taps needed, but the guys in smitty forum talked me out of trying to drill with a hand drill. My handloads with 170 jacketed FPs grouped as well as I can see, and I have a couple 8mm molds that may work, but have my eye out for something designed for the 321 bore. It's a work in progress.

Here's more good news, about 3 mos ago I sent my Marlin 94cl back to the factory because of feeding problems, got it back but still had feeding problems. Marlin sent me a prepaid mailer thingy to send it to Mann and Sons, an emporium noted for their work on Marlins. They were unable to fix so sent it on to Marlin. For the last 3 weeks marlin says that they can't actually put their hands on it but are sure it's in the system...somewhere.

How bout that for a fine whine?

TXGunNut · October 13, 2010, 07:31 PM

Peeps are great for old eyes but I'm thinking I need something more, will know after I see the eye doc. They'll look cool on your rifle, shooting better is a nice benefit too. .

I'm all done with standard buckhorns too, I'm afraid. I have a good drill press but would hesitate to do something like that, good gunsmith worth waiting for. Have you checked Lyman moulds? I thought I saw something there once but I don't know what you're looking for.
I've heard things about fixes for Marlin feeding issues, seems I've read about it around here somewhere. Kinda discouraging when the factory and their go-to shop can't fix it. I bet someone around here can help.

October 8, 2010, 01:57 PM	#1
salvadore Junior member Join Date: January 1, 2007 Location: Idaho Posts: 2,282	shallow I purchased a Lee 6 cavity 44 rn 240...ummm250,,,gr mold and cast up a few to try em out. my normal unsized lube method didn't work well so I ran them thru my lyman lubersizer, which is a good lubersizer if you don't plan on doing much shooting. My concern is the niggardly amount of lube the grooves accept. I'm use to lyman's older designs that accerpt lotsa lube. Has anyone found this to be a problem? I also have a lee 8mm mold I haven't tried yet and it also has teensy (technical term) lube grooves, the truncated .45 230 gr mold seems to be okee pokee, the groove isnt deep but is quite a bit wider. anyone anyone?

October 8, 2010, 02:26 PM	#2
Rangefinder Senior Member Join Date: August 4, 2005 Posts: 2,017	You say the lube groove are really small and shallow? Did you be TL molds? As in "Tumble Lube"... Those aren't meant to take conventional hard lube. Photos are always a helpful addition. __________________ "Why is is called Common Sense when it seems so few actually possess it?" Guns only have two enemies: Rust and Politicians.

October 8, 2010, 07:42 PM	#5
GP100man Senior Member Join Date: August 1, 2007 Location: Tabor City , NC. Posts: 1,969	How much ya sizing em down ??? .002.003 should`nt be any problem even on a tl but if the grooves are that shallow I aquired a lee 90434 (obsolete) a 270gr. swc for the 44 & it has 3 shallow grooves, does yours look like these ???? __________________ GP100man

October 8, 2010, 09:07 PM	#6
TXGunNut Senior Member Join Date: January 16, 2010 Location: If you have to ask... Posts: 2,860	As you know I'm a newbie caster, Sal, but my research tells me smokeless powder loads need less lube than black powder. Old moulds were designed for BP loads. New moulds are mostly designed with smokeless powder in mind and have shallower lube grooves. I'm sticking with the old BP style moulds and SPG for now and I'm not doing the 44 mag...yet. I think you'll be fine with this mould but may need a bit harder lube, one designed for higher pressure/velocity. FWIW SPG worked well in my 45-70 for loads up to 1500fps so far, maybe even higher. Hey, you've got the moulds and cast the boolits, Sal. Give it a try! Let us know how it works. Richard Lee has forgotten more about moulds, boolits and reloading than most of us will ever know. __________________ Life Member NRA, TSRA Smokeless powder is a passing fad! -Steve Garbe I hate rude behavior in a man. I won't tolerate it. -Woodrow F. Call Lonesome Dove My favorite recipes start out with a handful of used wheelweights.

October 9, 2010, 10:12 AM	#8
Rangefinder Senior Member Join Date: August 4, 2005 Posts: 2,017	^^ Good observation, I noticed the same thing. Fired my Winchester last winter quite a bit. Ended up finding a pretty good pile of bullets in the spring after everything melted off. Low and behold, nearly all of 'em still had lube in the grooves. Sal, there really is just one way to see how they're gonna work... Go shoot 'em! Then hit us back with a range report! __________________ "Why is is called Common Sense when it seems so few actually possess it?" Guns only have two enemies: Rust and Politicians.

October 8, 2010, 03:28 PM	#3
zippy13 Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2008 Location: SoCal Posts: 6,442	Rangefinder is on the mark about Lee's tumble lube. Take a look at the mold's box, is there a TL (tumble lube) prefix to the part number? The OP indicated a RN and Lee's 429-240-2RN has their conventional grooves, it's the TL340-240-SWC that is a tumble lube. And, yes, some Lee molds have bigger grooves than others. I've found some of the Lee conventional bullets are happier with heated wax lubrication. I shoot Lee's 429-214-SWC and would be happier if it were grooved like their 452-200-SWC.

October 8, 2010, 04:46 PM	#4
salvadore Junior member Join Date: January 1, 2007 Location: Idaho Posts: 2,282	No it's not a tumble lube design, I just can't get all twitterpated about them. Itsa regular two groove design whith crimp groove, I sized and loaded up about 70 of them but won't get out until monday or tuesday.....I was just concerned about the small amount of lube the design takes, particularly the 8mm one. As stated I have used their truncated230 gr design without a problem, but it seems to allow more lube in its groove

October 9, 2010, 11:39 AM	#9
salvadore Junior member Join Date: January 1, 2007 Location: Idaho Posts: 2,282	Well you guys are reassuring, I'll try and get out the first of the week. My 8mm molds are the lee with its two shallow grooves and a lyman rn gc with about a gazzilion grooves (pope style?). I'm hoping to multi task one of these for use in my 32 spec. Got a lot of projects for the winter.

October 9, 2010, 04:56 PM	#10
snuffy Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2001 Location: Oshkosh wi. Posts: 3,055	The 8 mm with multiple lube grooves is a loverrin,(SP?). style. They work too. I just finished sizing some 45/70 420 bullets that use wide, shallow lube grooves. Lubing both grooves uses 1.9 grains of lube! That should be plenty to let the bullet slide down the bore. Modern lube works better with less than the old bear tallow used on the black powder bullets. __________________ The more people I meet, the more I love my dog They're going to get their butts kicked over there this election. How come people can't spell and use words correctly?

October 10, 2010, 02:54 AM	#11
lwknight Member Join Date: August 16, 2010 Location: North Central Texas Posts: 31	Quote: ...My concern is the niggardly amount of lube the grooves accept... You made me check the dictionary on that one. 2 : provided in meanly limited supply : SCANTY the country has been handicapped by niggardly transport resources V.H.Whitney synonyms see STINGY __________________ Leslie

October 11, 2010, 05:56 PM	#12
salvadore Junior member Join Date: January 1, 2007 Location: Idaho Posts: 2,282	thanks snuff, lovern,sharp, pope...egads...I believe niggardly comes from a scandanavian root less someone thinks it is somehow related to the "N" word.

October 12, 2010, 02:58 PM	#13
salvadore Junior member Join Date: January 1, 2007 Location: Idaho Posts: 2,282	Okee pokee, went out and shot apx 80 rds in two shooters, my blackhawk flat top and amodel 21 Classic. Both shot as good is I shoot, not very, and the barrels cleaned up with a brash brush and dry patch. The 21 may have some lead left in its really rough tool marks in the grooves but looks fine. I'm pushing them between 700/800 fps. Found a bullet with about 1/2 the lube left, but coulda lost some in the sand. Think I'll load up a bunch for casual can killing.

October 13, 2010, 06:35 AM	#14
TXGunNut Senior Member Join Date: January 16, 2010 Location: If you have to ask... Posts: 2,860	Sounds good, glad it worked out! How's the .32 project coming? __________________ Life Member NRA, TSRA Smokeless powder is a passing fad! -Steve Garbe I hate rude behavior in a man. I won't tolerate it. -Woodrow F. Call Lonesome Dove My favorite recipes start out with a handful of used wheelweights.

October 13, 2010, 07:16 AM	#15
salvadore Junior member Join Date: January 1, 2007 Location: Idaho Posts: 2,282	Slow Tex, purchased a Lyman reciever sight after noting how well I could see the factory sights. My smith told me he didn't have time to drill and tap due to hunting season needs etc. so I bought the drill bits and taps needed, but the guys in smitty forum talked me out of trying to drill with a hand drill. My handloads with 170 jacketed FPs grouped as well as I can see, and I have a couple 8mm molds that may work, but have my eye out for something designed for the 321 bore. It's a work in progress. Here's more good news, about 3 mos ago I sent my Marlin 94cl back to the factory because of feeding problems, got it back but still had feeding problems. Marlin sent me a prepaid mailer thingy to send it to Mann and Sons, an emporium noted for their work on Marlins. They were unable to fix so sent it on to Marlin. For the last 3 weeks marlin says that they can't actually put their hands on it but are sure it's in the system...somewhere. How bout that for a fine whine?

October 13, 2010, 07:31 PM	#16
TXGunNut Senior Member Join Date: January 16, 2010 Location: If you have to ask... Posts: 2,860	Peeps are great for old eyes but I'm thinking I need something more, will know after I see the eye doc. They'll look cool on your rifle, shooting better is a nice benefit too. . I'm all done with standard buckhorns too, I'm afraid. I have a good drill press but would hesitate to do something like that, good gunsmith worth waiting for. Have you checked Lyman moulds? I thought I saw something there once but I don't know what you're looking for. I've heard things about fixes for Marlin feeding issues, seems I've read about it around here somewhere. Kinda discouraging when the factory and their go-to shop can't fix it. I bet someone around here can help. __________________ Life Member NRA, TSRA Smokeless powder is a passing fad! -Steve Garbe I hate rude behavior in a man. I won't tolerate it. -Woodrow F. Call Lonesome Dove My favorite recipes start out with a handful of used wheelweights.