|
Forum Rules | Firearms Safety | Firearms Photos | Links | Library | Lost Password | Email Changes |
Register | FAQ | Calendar | Today's Posts | Search |
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
January 26, 2024, 08:57 PM | #1 |
Senior Member
Join Date: March 15, 2010
Posts: 8,238
|
Starting to Realize the Merits of SBRs
Edit to add disclaimer: I did not post in the NFA forum because the featured firearm is not an NFA item. The muzzle device is pinned and welded.
I had a couple of AR pistol’s for a few years, basically for the novelty of them. They were fun to shoot and I actually never shouldered them. Never really had interest in SBRs though. During the recent attempts to ban pistol braces I abandoned the pistols and used the receivers and other parts to make carbines. I also built lowers for other orphaned AR uppers that I have. During the process, I found that I had nearly enough parts in my parts boxes to make another gun minus the stripped lower and barrel. I even had two complete 6.8 bolts and carriers from a failed 6.8 project that I had abandoned. On a whim, I purchased a 10.5” 6.8 spc ARP barrel, posted about it before. I promptly pinned and welded a 6” flash hider to make it legal. I really wanted to give 6.8spc a try again (already had ammo) and I kinda missed AR pistols. In the months since I’ve put this together I’ve grown to like this gun, very light weight and even more fun with a shoulder stock, lol. I’ve made a few changes to the gun. Its original lower got moved to the 450 project for testing and instead of swapping lowers back, I went ahead and swapped the rifle stock out for a carbine stock buffer and all. I thought about a more expensive carbine stock but I’ve always found the M4 style to be acceptable and the price is unbeatable really. I also opted to install a skeletonized pistol grip for a few grams of weight savings. Anyway I’m really starting to like this particular gun, my only regret is that I should have opted for a hand-guard with a rail before I pinned and welded the muzzle device. The tube was what was in the parts box at the time. I like tubes, but they do limit accessories. While this isn’t an actual SBR, but it has SBR qualities, the flash hider is lightweight and is more like a flash can. I’m not ready to get a tax stamp yet, the needle has moved a bit more in that direction. I understand why people like the more now. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Last edited by rickyrick; January 26, 2024 at 09:13 PM. |
January 27, 2024, 12:30 AM | #2 |
Senior Member
Join Date: March 18, 2019
Location: Texas
Posts: 432
|
An interesting point for braced pistols- Texas law prohibits concealed carry of a rifle. You can open-carry a rifle. You can concealed carry a pistol.
A braced pistol is legal to carry, since it's a pistol. If you SBR it you can't carry it in a case wherever you want. Other states may have this distinction. |
January 27, 2024, 12:42 AM | #3 |
Senior Member
Join Date: March 2, 2014
Posts: 11,801
|
I thought about this option; I decided this was an intermediate solution--like bump stocks and binary triggers--that eventually would be subject to negative interpretation if the barrel as manufactured was not "compliant." Looks fun though.
__________________
"Everyone speaks gun."--Robert O'Neill I am NOT an expert--I do not have any formal experience or certification in firearms use or testing; use any information I post at your own risk! |
January 27, 2024, 07:03 AM | #4 |
Senior Member
Join Date: April 28, 2013
Posts: 3,182
|
I’ve often felt that with the stock collapsed all the way and no muzzle device even a 16” barrel would feel short enough to be quite handy. Maybe I’ll give it a try one of these days.
|
January 27, 2024, 03:21 PM | #5 |
Senior Member
Join Date: March 15, 2010
Posts: 8,238
|
I’ll say that the 10.5” barrel with a 6” flash hider is noticeably lighter and more balanced than a full 16” barrel with everything else being the same
__________________
Woohoo, I’m back In Texas!!! |
January 28, 2024, 08:57 AM | #6 |
Senior Member
Join Date: March 21, 2012
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 3,977
|
Yes a short barrel makes it light and fast. But the main point is short/manuverable for getting in and out of vehicles, inside buildings, or so that you can add a suppressor without getting crazy long. The weight reduction is just a side effect.
__________________
I don't believe in "range fodder" that is why I reload. |
January 29, 2024, 11:45 AM | #7 |
Senior Member
Join Date: September 28, 2013
Posts: 3,833
|
A welded on muzzle device to make 16" is not a real SBR. Light weight is the only advantage, at the expense of other performance parameters.
-TL Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk |
January 29, 2024, 11:55 AM | #8 |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 20, 2008
Posts: 11,132
|
I am 100% in on Bullpups as opposed to SBR's. Basically, similar OAL, but longer barrel. So, you get the compactness with more power and no government bullcrap.
Caliber: 7.62 X51 / .308 WIN 3.5lb to 5.0lb adjustable trigger pull with patented trigger linkage. Barrel Length: 16" Barrel Twist: 1:10, 4 Groove Nitride treated Overall Length: 26.25" with 16" barrel Weight: 8.2 LB 16" barrel Short Stroke Piston System W/ adjustable gas system Will shoot suppressed and non suppressed Strong 3 Lug style bolt that is NP3 plated |
January 29, 2024, 12:14 PM | #9 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: March 15, 2010
Posts: 8,238
|
Quote:
__________________
Woohoo, I’m back In Texas!!! |
|
January 29, 2024, 12:19 PM | #10 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: September 28, 2013
Posts: 3,833
|
Quote:
-TL Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk |
|
January 29, 2024, 11:46 PM | #11 |
Senior Member
Join Date: October 9, 2009
Location: North Alabama
Posts: 8,314
|
fan
I like the appearance of your carbine, the tube forearm and the old school 1" scope and the long flash hider all look right together and the simple scope/rings will cut weight as you have discovered.
I understand you used the parts on hand, but offer the following suggestion if you want to lighten it up further. Consider the simple "L" shaped Minimalist stock from Battlelink. One can normally overcome the short length of pull by running the scope well forward. Another simplified option, though likely not as light as the Minimalist, is the MagPul fixed carbine stock. I used the Magpul fixed on one of my carbines, ran the scope well forward, and nixed the flash hider with a thread protector which yielded a shorter, rattle free carbine. |
January 30, 2024, 10:50 AM | #12 |
Senior Member
Join Date: August 25, 2008
Location: In the valley above the plain
Posts: 13,427
|
I love my SBRs. I have seen thousands of arguments against them, and the paperwork (and "permission slips") that comes with them. I understand the arguments and agree with many.
But once you're in the game, life is more fun. I was hesitant, myself. But I ended up with a 14.5" barreled AR upper for a wildcat that has only been chambered once, on which I had a matching brake pinned and welded. (Only 12 barrels were made and they were all 14.5", so getting a longer barrel was not an option.) That arrangement was acceptable for a few years, until I had some suppressors. I really wanted to suppress the rifle with that p/w'd brake. So I had to file the F1 and SBR it. No regrets. Absolutely worth it. Now I can run whatever I want on the SBR'd lower, from the 7.5" 5.56 barrel, to the 24" .17-223 barrel. Doesn't matter, they're all legal now.
__________________
Don't even try it. It's even worse than the internet would lead you to believe. |
January 30, 2024, 11:04 AM | #13 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 12, 2005
Location: Georgia, USA
Posts: 3,336
|
I am kicking around the idea of having the barrel on my K1A1 cut down to 10.5", that happens to be what the gas system is set up for.
On the other hand, I may replace the original wire butt stock with a M.A.R.S.(Mission Adapted Railed Stock) Kit. It was developed by request from top tier South Korea Army SF units, it improves the rifles balance and accuracy.
__________________
The History and Development of the M14 EBR Last edited by SR420; February 2, 2024 at 12:57 PM. |
February 1, 2024, 06:37 PM | #14 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: January 13, 2018
Posts: 1,328
|
Quote:
Here is my bullpup. I hate bullpups but this one has wormed it's way into my heart. It is very ergonomic and reliable. This one is small enough you can use it to shoot out of the drivers side window when sitting in the drivers seat. I changed the optic from an MRO to an EOtech 552. |
|
February 1, 2024, 07:11 PM | #15 |
Senior Member
Join Date: March 15, 2010
Posts: 8,238
|
Bullpups are interesting, but I have this unfounded, irrational fear of having a receiver under my face.
Maybe one day I’ll get over it.
__________________
Woohoo, I’m back In Texas!!! |
February 1, 2024, 07:51 PM | #16 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 16, 2012
Location: ME
Posts: 772
|
Quote:
I got into bullpups after Trump got elected. Local dealer stocked up, and wanted to at least stimulate some of the upcoming dead market. Got a 16” Tavor SAR. Nice gun, did the Geissele upgrades and changed out the charging handle. It shot good. I was about to suppress it… but decided to trade it and stick with ARs. AR pistols, and ultimately SBRs. Why did I ditch the Tavor, especially when the OAL was identical to these shorter barrel guns? Because it wasn’t an AR. At work, we use M4s. We train and qualify on them. For me, sticking on a familiar platform, especially when I’m trusting/relying on it, is a better option than something that might have a long barrel… even if same OAL. My truck gun is a 11.5” AR with a suppressor. I really don’t realistically need to fire out past 150-200 yards (whether working or off duty, just the range isn’t as common in my area). That barrel length is more than adequate for my needs. If there was a need for 16”+ barrel, I’d might consider bullpups more… but even still, a Colt 6920 is still manageable for me. |
|
February 2, 2024, 05:27 AM | #17 |
Senior Member
Join Date: March 2, 2014
Posts: 11,801
|
With that muzzle device pinned and welded--is your gas block pretty much committed until death does it part?
__________________
"Everyone speaks gun."--Robert O'Neill I am NOT an expert--I do not have any formal experience or certification in firearms use or testing; use any information I post at your own risk! |
February 2, 2024, 05:59 AM | #18 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: March 15, 2010
Posts: 8,238
|
Quote:
So I’m stuck with the hand guard too. I didn’t think I’d like the gun as much as I do, so I threw the tube that I had in the parts box on it anticipating it getting pushed to the back corner of the gun cabinet. Now I kinda wish I’d put something on it with a rail, but it’s not the end of the world. It has a Superlative Arms bleed-off style gas block. It is running fine in the “normal” adjustment setting. The little gun has a surprisingly authoritative recoil impulse, I may adjust the gas to see if I could tone it down a bit, but I wouldn’t think that it has a lot of gas to work with. Then again, I may leave it be, it cycles rounds and locks the bolt back on empty. Quote:
__________________
Woohoo, I’m back In Texas!!! |
||
February 2, 2024, 06:57 AM | #19 |
Senior Member
Join Date: March 2, 2014
Posts: 11,801
|
I bought several minimalist stocks once when I thought they would be the bee's knees--I ended up not liking them. To each their own I guess.
__________________
"Everyone speaks gun."--Robert O'Neill I am NOT an expert--I do not have any formal experience or certification in firearms use or testing; use any information I post at your own risk! |
February 2, 2024, 08:56 AM | #20 |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 20, 2008
Posts: 11,132
|
Make and Model is a K&M Arms M17S in .308. They also make a version in 5.56. I happen to have this gun and love it.
Billet aluminum Lower 6000 series; Tough extruded aluminum upper Adjustable hammer assy with pull range from 3.5-5lb without removing the assembly. There is also a heavier spring that can be installed in the disconnector area that will allow it to go up to 5.5lb. Utilizes standard AR-10 magazine catch, grip, springs and pins. Skeleton billet trigger, adjustable Magpul enhanced butt pad Push button safety located right at your finger tip 2X QD sling adapters at the butt of the rifle 2X AR style takedown pins. (Uses standard AR takedown springs and detent) AR180 style bolt carrier with an over-engineered 3 lug triangular bolt that uses DPMS extractor and ejector parts. Guide rods and bolt are NP3 plated. Uses LR/SR series magazines. (Comes with one magpul 20 rd mag) Uses standard AR pistol grip that can be changed to use most all other AR grip. Non reciprocating charging handle changeable to both sides of the receiver . Standard AR10 Flash hider threaded 5/8-24 Ambi mag release that is a standard AR style Modular side rails that can be mounted in any of the side slots AR10 style bolt catch with last round hold open Tactical flared magwell for quick magazine loading |
February 2, 2024, 09:30 AM | #21 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: March 15, 2010
Posts: 8,238
|
Quote:
Every time I think of other stocks, I can’t help but to weigh the fact that a $30 M4 style stock does the job just fine.
__________________
Woohoo, I’m back In Texas!!! |
|
February 2, 2024, 01:00 PM | #22 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 12, 2005
Location: Georgia, USA
Posts: 3,336
|
Bull pup rifles have an undeniable cool factor, but I won't own one.
My experience with an M14/M1A bull pup conversion kit.
__________________
The History and Development of the M14 EBR |
February 2, 2024, 03:11 PM | #23 |
Senior Member
Join Date: October 15, 1998
Location: Sherman, TX USA
Posts: 3,751
|
Bull pups are a viable alternative if you don't have a lot of time behind a conventional AR, and/or dedicated yourself to only that design.
For me the magazine change on a bull-pup is a fumblers nightmare compared to the regular gun, so I spent the coin to register four SBRs a good while back.
__________________
Make mine lean, mean, and 9x19! |
February 3, 2024, 01:03 PM | #24 |
Senior Member
Join Date: April 28, 2013
Posts: 3,182
|
Around 30 years ago I did a bull pup conversation to my mini14 and definitely didn’t care for it. It just didn’t feel balanced right to me, not sure if this is a thing in general but would guess even the ones designed for this configuration would be rear heavy too.
|
February 21, 2024, 09:14 PM | #25 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 23, 2008
Posts: 1,091
|
Quote:
__________________
"What most people forget is that the first country the Nazi's conquered was their own." 44AMP on thefiringline.com |
|
|
|