Low Mount Cowitness Options

rc · December 2, 2023, 11:42 PM

Ok fellas, let's talk about Red Dots and compact illuminated scopes!

We have a lot of tiny weeny itty bitty little red dots on the market that are all the rage for pistols these days but I don't know of any that will set up to cowitness on rifles.

We have older bulky red dots.

We have compact red dots.

We have LVPO scopes with illuminated dots.

I'd like to specifically discuss durability of these options and use of these sights on rifles including those with the integrated Ruger mount system.

I know GGG has a compact dot rail for the mini 14 ranch, but I don't think that product is low enough to cowitness with a compact red dot and it also wont work on the PC4 since the bases are not the same distance apart as on a mini. If I go with LVPO, I will need 30mm rings. My mini doesn't have the DT low mount weaver rail. I also have an XS picatinny sight rail on my 357 mag 1894 and would love to have a compact red dot that will cowitness on that gun. Looking forward to hear what some of you are using on your own guns to help out the old eyes.

rickyrick · December 3, 2023, 06:37 PM

I don’t see how you could co-witness on a Mini14 with any optic out there.

rc · December 3, 2023, 09:52 PM

Well, I know there are some rails like the samson but I'd like to hear from others who have figured out a good option. How about on the XS rail for my 357? Any cowitness options there?

davidsog · December 7, 2023, 06:01 PM

Rather than trying to co-witness a Mini-14, you might think about just using a Quick disconnect mount.

I had a colleague lose his battery and his red-dot in the middle of the house in my first tour in Afghanistan. Bad battery and bad luck. He finished the room just looking thru the tube, LOL. He then went to BUIS.

Worst case, you could finish the immediate fight, take off the QD mount and go to irons.

rickyrick · December 7, 2023, 07:23 PM

There’s rails around, but a min14 has proprietary scope rings. The irons are mounted low on the receiver and barrel. Rail mounts are kinda janky and some just replace the handguard and you have to use a scout type scope. Most options would completely block the iron sights.
I say just use a scope with a physical reticle reticle that doesn’t require illumination.
A red dot limits your performance to 2moa with a high end dot and up to 4moa with a budget dot.

rc · December 8, 2023, 01:43 AM

I do have a weaver K4 set up for my mini but it's way more precise than the rifle even with the stabilizing brace. I may be best going with an LVPO 1-6 for the Ruger.

41MagGuy · January 7, 2024, 06:59 PM

I gave up trying to co-witness with my 930 shotgun, and with my 60 yoa eyes, I opted for an XS Big Dot tritium.

jmr40 · January 7, 2024, 07:12 PM

I've been shooting for over 50 years. Never had a "quality" optic fail. I've had iron sights fail several times. My advice is to buy a "quality" optic and forget about backup iron sights.

You can get a "quality" conventional scope for the least money. Something with 1X or 1.5X on the low end is just as fast on target as any dot sight or iron sight. 4X is probably enough on the high end, but they do make them with 6X or 8X. That gives you the versatility to be accurate at longer ranges.

You don't really need an illuminated reticle or dot with a decent conventional scope. If it is so dark that you need the illumination, it's too dark to see the target.

The disadvantage of conventional optics is the size and added weight. A dot sight is almost as small and light as irons so if that is important then a "quality" dot sight might be what you want. They are great up to around 100 yards but aren't precise enough for longer range work.

I don't know a lot about them, but I've tried a few. The only one I've liked is the Holosun sights. There may be better options, but if using a dot type sight this is my preference.

https://holosun.com/index/product/detail/id/124.html

December 2, 2023, 11:42 PM	#1
rc Senior Member Join Date: April 28, 2001 Location: CA Posts: 1,769	Low Mount Cowitness Options Ok fellas, let's talk about Red Dots and compact illuminated scopes! We have a lot of tiny weeny itty bitty little red dots on the market that are all the rage for pistols these days but I don't know of any that will set up to cowitness on rifles. We have older bulky red dots. We have compact red dots. We have LVPO scopes with illuminated dots. I'd like to specifically discuss durability of these options and use of these sights on rifles including those with the integrated Ruger mount system. I know GGG has a compact dot rail for the mini 14 ranch, but I don't think that product is low enough to cowitness with a compact red dot and it also wont work on the PC4 since the bases are not the same distance apart as on a mini. If I go with LVPO, I will need 30mm rings. My mini doesn't have the DT low mount weaver rail. I also have an XS picatinny sight rail on my 357 mag 1894 and would love to have a compact red dot that will cowitness on that gun. Looking forward to hear what some of you are using on your own guns to help out the old eyes.

December 3, 2023, 06:37 PM	#2
rickyrick Senior Member Join Date: March 15, 2010 Posts: 8,238	I don’t see how you could co-witness on a Mini14 with any optic out there. __________________ Woohoo, I’m back In Texas!!!

December 7, 2023, 07:23 PM	#5
rickyrick Senior Member Join Date: March 15, 2010 Posts: 8,238	There’s rails around, but a min14 has proprietary scope rings. The irons are mounted low on the receiver and barrel. Rail mounts are kinda janky and some just replace the handguard and you have to use a scout type scope. Most options would completely block the iron sights. I say just use a scope with a physical reticle reticle that doesn’t require illumination. A red dot limits your performance to 2moa with a high end dot and up to 4moa with a budget dot. __________________ Woohoo, I’m back In Texas!!! Last edited by rickyrick; December 7, 2023 at 07:29 PM.

January 7, 2024, 07:12 PM	#8
jmr40 Senior Member Join Date: June 15, 2008 Location: Georgia Posts: 10,810	I've been shooting for over 50 years. Never had a "quality" optic fail. I've had iron sights fail several times. My advice is to buy a "quality" optic and forget about backup iron sights. You can get a "quality" conventional scope for the least money. Something with 1X or 1.5X on the low end is just as fast on target as any dot sight or iron sight. 4X is probably enough on the high end, but they do make them with 6X or 8X. That gives you the versatility to be accurate at longer ranges. You don't really need an illuminated reticle or dot with a decent conventional scope. If it is so dark that you need the illumination, it's too dark to see the target. The disadvantage of conventional optics is the size and added weight. A dot sight is almost as small and light as irons so if that is important then a "quality" dot sight might be what you want. They are great up to around 100 yards but aren't precise enough for longer range work. I don't know a lot about them, but I've tried a few. The only one I've liked is the Holosun sights. There may be better options, but if using a dot type sight this is my preference. https://holosun.com/index/product/detail/id/124.html __________________ "If you're still doing things the same way you were doing them 10 years ago, you're doing it wrong" Winston Churchill

December 3, 2023, 09:52 PM	#3
rc Senior Member Join Date: April 28, 2001 Location: CA Posts: 1,769	Well, I know there are some rails like the samson but I'd like to hear from others who have figured out a good option. How about on the XS rail for my 357? Any cowitness options there?

December 7, 2023, 06:01 PM	#4
davidsog Senior Member Join Date: January 13, 2018 Posts: 1,328	Rather than trying to co-witness a Mini-14, you might think about just using a Quick disconnect mount. I had a colleague lose his battery and his red-dot in the middle of the house in my first tour in Afghanistan. Bad battery and bad luck. He finished the room just looking thru the tube, LOL. He then went to BUIS. Worst case, you could finish the immediate fight, take off the QD mount and go to irons.

December 8, 2023, 01:43 AM	#6
rc Senior Member Join Date: April 28, 2001 Location: CA Posts: 1,769	I do have a weaver K4 set up for my mini but it's way more precise than the rifle even with the stabilizing brace. I may be best going with an LVPO 1-6 for the Ruger.