Hornady LNL inconsistent powder drops

gregjc9 · October 12, 2010, 08:10 PM

Need some input here. I'm getting inconsistent drops from my LNL powder measure. I'm trying to drop 5.4gr of Power Pistol for 9mm. I have the older style PM, it has the longer arms and the long diagonal spring. I have the long pistol insert installed, and it is orientated correctly, larger funnel facing up. Everything is adjusted correctly, with the maximum travel of the insert almost touching the PM body when the ram is raised with a case in place. I'm measuring drops with the same case. I'll run through 3 drops through the same case before measuring, and I'll get anywhere from 5.2 to 6.0gr. I'm using an RCBS 505 scale to measure. I also have a baffle in place (made from the plans from UncleNick). Could it be the powder? I thought PP was supposed to feed pretty accurately. I have some W231 I can try and see how it does. Any other ideas?

PA-Joe · October 12, 2010, 08:29 PM

Are you using a pistol rotor or the large rifle rotor? Is the rotor, adjuster and tube clean? Are you double tapping on both the up and down strokes to make certain that all of the powder has dropped?

gregjc9 · October 12, 2010, 09:04 PM

The longer insert is the pistol insert, and I am using that one. I just pulled it all apart and cleaned again prior to getting the inconsistent drops. Not sure I follow what you are saying, but I'm simply moving the crank handle back and forth.

**Shane Tuttle** · October 12, 2010, 09:11 PM

What did you use to clean? Have you coated the inside of the PM with graphite?

Waldog · October 12, 2010, 10:42 PM

I see you only run 3 cases through and start measuring. That's not nearly enough cycles. The powder measure will not settle down in 3 drops. Takes more like 10-20 drops. I have A LNL AP with the new powder measure linkage. While loading 9mm I get consistent +/- .1 grs with Win 231 and Power Pistol.

When I make a powder charge adjustment I drop 20 charges BEFORE I start measuring. Plus/minus .1 gr is as good as you'll ever get. NO POWDER MEASURE DROPS EXACT MEASURES EVERY TIME. There is always a plus/minus variance. Usually +/- .1 gr with ball or flake type powder (Power Pistol, HP38, 231). Course stick powder like IMR 4350 or IMR 4831 will give you +/- .3-.4 gr .

I have five different powder measures; Lee, Belding & Mull, Sinclair, Lyman and, Hornady. All provide the same variance +/- .1 gr and +/- .3-.4 gr.

THE ONLY WAY TO GET EXACT MEASURES IS TO USE A ELECTRONIC OR MANUAL TRICKLER.

Shoney · October 12, 2010, 11:30 PM

gregjc9

Presuming that you have cleaned and graphited your PM, you may be experiencing seasonal static build up. If it is strong enough it can cause even spherical powders to stick.

As winter begins, the air cools and holds less moisture. The decrease in moisture allows more static build up. There are two fixes:

1. Wipe the external parts of the measure with a moist cloth; or
2. Wipe the external surfaces with a used piece of laundry anti-cling sheet (ex. Snuggle).

gregjc9 · October 13, 2010, 05:44 AM

Tuttle8: I used clean paper towls to clean out all the passages, etc. I lubed the exterior of the rotor and case actuator with Hornady On-Shot - just a little, and wipped any excess off. No I have not tried the graphite yet. This is a used setup, so I didnt think I needed to. I will try and track some down and see if this helps.

Waldog: Jim, My post was a little misleading. Before I start taking any measurements, I run at least 10 cases through. I thought that was enough, but will start running 20 through and see if that helps. The 3 I mentioned was after running the 10 through. I would run 3 through, take a measurement, run 3 through again, take a measurement, etc, etc. I understand and have no problem with a .1 to .3 variance, but .6 and above is too much.

Shoney: I hadnt thought about static cling (sorry, couldnt resist), good idea. I just relocated my setup into the basement, where it's cool but dry. Plus it's relatively close to the HVAC unit, so I can see how this might be a problem.

Great input guys, many thanks. I will try the graphite, wiping the PM down with used dryer sheets, and running 20+ cases through before measureing. Sounds like a plan.

alloy · October 13, 2010, 06:45 AM

Quote:

The longer insert is the pistol insert

But you have the rotor for pistols as well, right? Not just the metering insert.
http://www.hornady.com/store/Pistol-...g-Assy-1-Each/

Sorry for the dumb question, doubtful it would work any other way....but...just curious about what PA-Joe asked.

PA-Joe · October 13, 2010, 06:58 AM

The PM works by filling a chamber with powder and then dumping that powder out and into the case. To make certain that the chamber fills with powder you double tap the press handle. This will help settle the powder into the measuring chamber. When you go to drop the powder into the case again you want to double tap that handle to make certain all of the powder falls into the case. Do you have a baffle in the larger powder tube? This helps uniform the powder as it falls into the measuring chamber.

FlyFish · October 13, 2010, 07:22 AM

Quote:

But you have the rotor for pistols as well, right? Not just the metering insert.

From the way the OP described the "long" pistol insert with a "funnel", I think this may be the problem - he's talking about the bushing that allows the shorter pistol case to actuate the powder drop mechanism, but is still using the rifle (larger cavity diameter) rotor. If it's an older LnL, it was supplied with only a single (rifle, inexplicably) rotor - that's the way mine came and I had to buy the pistol rotor separately.

I generally try to use the rifle rotor if possible because it's less susceptible to bridging, but for smaller charges of fine pistol powder the pistol rotor will provide greater consistency between charges.

gregjc9 · October 13, 2010, 08:06 AM

DAUM!!

I didnt realize there was a pistol rotor. This would definately explain a lot. I bought this used, and there was no mention of it in the manual. Looking at the Hornady's web site, I believe mine is what's called the "standard" rotor. The inserts I have look like this:

http://www.hornady.com/store/Standar...Insert-1-Each/

I always thought this didnt look quite right for a small pistol load.

I will order a pistol rotor and a couple of inserts today. Once again, this place is the best.

FlyFish · October 13, 2010, 08:22 AM

Yeah, that's the problem all right. Why in the world Hornady originally shipped the LnL with the larger diameter rotor is a mystery to me - I gotta believe that far more pistol rounds vs. rifle rounds are loaded on progressive presses.

Anyway, remember (as I think you already know) that you need an an entire pistol rotor assembly, not just the insert. The purpose of the inserts is that you can have a bunch of them and set each one for a particular load. I've never been in that much of a hurry when I change the press over to do a different load.

gregjc9 · October 13, 2010, 08:35 AM

Thanks FlyFish. Yep, I got that I need both. Trying to track a rotor/insert down locally. More than likely, will have to give Midway more money.

Thanks again.

gregjc9 · October 18, 2010, 07:53 PM

Thought I would close the loop on this. I got the pistol rotor and insert, and second pistol insert (one for 9mm and one for 45acp) today from Midway. I cleaned them up, ran some graphite through the PM, ran several drops through, then measured 10 drops. The were all within less than .1gr of each other. WOOOT!!!

Once again, thanks all for the excellect suggestions.

**Shane Tuttle** · October 18, 2010, 08:25 PM

Good to hear, Greg. I completely forgot about asking if you had the pistol insert or not.

FlyFish · October 18, 2010, 08:33 PM

Thanks for getting back to us. Good to know that things worked out.

October 12, 2010, 08:10 PM	#1
gregjc9 Senior Member Join Date: June 30, 2008 Location: Northern Va Posts: 501	Hornady LNL inconsistent powder drops Need some input here. I'm getting inconsistent drops from my LNL powder measure. I'm trying to drop 5.4gr of Power Pistol for 9mm. I have the older style PM, it has the longer arms and the long diagonal spring. I have the long pistol insert installed, and it is orientated correctly, larger funnel facing up. Everything is adjusted correctly, with the maximum travel of the insert almost touching the PM body when the ram is raised with a case in place. I'm measuring drops with the same case. I'll run through 3 drops through the same case before measuring, and I'll get anywhere from 5.2 to 6.0gr. I'm using an RCBS 505 scale to measure. I also have a baffle in place (made from the plans from UncleNick). Could it be the powder? I thought PP was supposed to feed pretty accurately. I have some W231 I can try and see how it does. Any other ideas? __________________ ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ Greg

October 12, 2010, 09:04 PM	#3
gregjc9 Senior Member Join Date: June 30, 2008 Location: Northern Va Posts: 501	The longer insert is the pistol insert, and I am using that one. I just pulled it all apart and cleaned again prior to getting the inconsistent drops. Not sure I follow what you are saying, but I'm simply moving the crank handle back and forth. __________________ ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ Greg

October 12, 2010, 09:11 PM	#4
Shane Tuttle Staff Join Date: November 28, 2005 Location: Montana Posts: 9,443	What did you use to clean? Have you coated the inside of the PM with graphite? __________________ If it were up to me, the word "got" would be deleted from the English language. Posting and YOU: http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/posting

October 12, 2010, 10:42 PM	#5
Waldog Senior Member Join Date: March 28, 2007 Location: SOCAL Posts: 359	I see you only run 3 cases through and start measuring. That's not nearly enough cycles. The powder measure will not settle down in 3 drops. Takes more like 10-20 drops. I have A LNL AP with the new powder measure linkage. While loading 9mm I get consistent +/- .1 grs with Win 231 and Power Pistol. When I make a powder charge adjustment I drop 20 charges BEFORE I start measuring. Plus/minus .1 gr is as good as you'll ever get. NO POWDER MEASURE DROPS EXACT MEASURES EVERY TIME. There is always a plus/minus variance. Usually +/- .1 gr with ball or flake type powder (Power Pistol, HP38, 231). Course stick powder like IMR 4350 or IMR 4831 will give you +/- .3-.4 gr . I have five different powder measures; Lee, Belding & Mull, Sinclair, Lyman and, Hornady. All provide the same variance +/- .1 gr and +/- .3-.4 gr. THE ONLY WAY TO GET EXACT MEASURES IS TO USE A ELECTRONIC OR MANUAL TRICKLER. __________________ I am the Christian Conservative that CNN warned you about!! “Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance and the gospel of envy.” Winston Churchill

October 12, 2010, 11:30 PM	#6
Shoney Senior Member Join Date: February 21, 2002 Location: Transplanted from Montana Posts: 2,311	gregjc9 Presuming that you have cleaned and graphited your PM, you may be experiencing seasonal static build up. If it is strong enough it can cause even spherical powders to stick. As winter begins, the air cools and holds less moisture. The decrease in moisture allows more static build up. There are two fixes: 1. Wipe the external parts of the measure with a moist cloth; or 2. Wipe the external surfaces with a used piece of laundry anti-cling sheet (ex. Snuggle). __________________ I pledge allegiance to the Flag - - -, and to the Republic for which it stands….Our Forefathers were brilliant for giving us a Republic, not a democracy! Do you know the difference??? and WHY?http://www.wallbuilders.com/LIBissue...les.asp?id=111

October 12, 2010, 08:29 PM	#2
PA-Joe Senior Member Join Date: June 9, 2010 Location: NEPA Posts: 909	Are you using a pistol rotor or the large rifle rotor? Is the rotor, adjuster and tube clean? Are you double tapping on both the up and down strokes to make certain that all of the powder has dropped?

October 13, 2010, 05:44 AM	#7
gregjc9 Senior Member Join Date: June 30, 2008 Location: Northern Va Posts: 501	Tuttle8: I used clean paper towls to clean out all the passages, etc. I lubed the exterior of the rotor and case actuator with Hornady On-Shot - just a little, and wipped any excess off. No I have not tried the graphite yet. This is a used setup, so I didnt think I needed to. I will try and track some down and see if this helps. Waldog: Jim, My post was a little misleading. Before I start taking any measurements, I run at least 10 cases through. I thought that was enough, but will start running 20 through and see if that helps. The 3 I mentioned was after running the 10 through. I would run 3 through, take a measurement, run 3 through again, take a measurement, etc, etc. I understand and have no problem with a .1 to .3 variance, but .6 and above is too much. Shoney: I hadnt thought about static cling (sorry, couldnt resist), good idea. I just relocated my setup into the basement, where it's cool but dry. Plus it's relatively close to the HVAC unit, so I can see how this might be a problem. Great input guys, many thanks. I will try the graphite, wiping the PM down with used dryer sheets, and running 20+ cases through before measureing. Sounds like a plan. __________________ ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ Greg

October 13, 2010, 06:58 AM	#9
PA-Joe Senior Member Join Date: June 9, 2010 Location: NEPA Posts: 909	The PM works by filling a chamber with powder and then dumping that powder out and into the case. To make certain that the chamber fills with powder you double tap the press handle. This will help settle the powder into the measuring chamber. When you go to drop the powder into the case again you want to double tap that handle to make certain all of the powder falls into the case. Do you have a baffle in the larger powder tube? This helps uniform the powder as it falls into the measuring chamber.

October 13, 2010, 08:06 AM	#11
gregjc9 Senior Member Join Date: June 30, 2008 Location: Northern Va Posts: 501	DAUM!! I didnt realize there was a pistol rotor. This would definately explain a lot. I bought this used, and there was no mention of it in the manual. Looking at the Hornady's web site, I believe mine is what's called the "standard" rotor. The inserts I have look like this: http://www.hornady.com/store/Standar...Insert-1-Each/ I always thought this didnt look quite right for a small pistol load. I will order a pistol rotor and a couple of inserts today. Once again, this place is the best. __________________ ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ Greg

October 13, 2010, 08:22 AM	#12
FlyFish Senior Member Join Date: January 20, 2009 Location: Overlooking the Baker River Valley Posts: 1,723	Yeah, that's the problem all right. Why in the world Hornady originally shipped the LnL with the larger diameter rotor is a mystery to me - I gotta believe that far more pistol rounds vs. rifle rounds are loaded on progressive presses. Anyway, remember (as I think you already know) that you need an an entire pistol rotor assembly, not just the insert. The purpose of the inserts is that you can have a bunch of them and set each one for a particular load. I've never been in that much of a hurry when I change the press over to do a different load.

October 13, 2010, 08:35 AM	#13
gregjc9 Senior Member Join Date: June 30, 2008 Location: Northern Va Posts: 501	Thanks FlyFish. Yep, I got that I need both. Trying to track a rotor/insert down locally. More than likely, will have to give Midway more money. Thanks again. __________________ ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ Greg

October 18, 2010, 07:53 PM	#14
gregjc9 Senior Member Join Date: June 30, 2008 Location: Northern Va Posts: 501	Thought I would close the loop on this. I got the pistol rotor and insert, and second pistol insert (one for 9mm and one for 45acp) today from Midway. I cleaned them up, ran some graphite through the PM, ran several drops through, then measured 10 drops. The were all within less than .1gr of each other. WOOOT!!! Once again, thanks all for the excellect suggestions. __________________ ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ Greg

October 18, 2010, 08:25 PM	#15
Shane Tuttle Staff Join Date: November 28, 2005 Location: Montana Posts: 9,443	Good to hear, Greg. I completely forgot about asking if you had the pistol insert or not. __________________ If it were up to me, the word "got" would be deleted from the English language. Posting and YOU: http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/posting

October 18, 2010, 08:33 PM	#16
FlyFish Senior Member Join Date: January 20, 2009 Location: Overlooking the Baker River Valley Posts: 1,723	Thanks for getting back to us. Good to know that things worked out.