Good SWAT training?

Epyon · August 4, 2007, 09:52 AM

http://youtube.com/watch?v=ummnOoSfd...elated&search=

I was checking out this video, and I wanted some opinions on their training, ignoring the sensationalist newscast, I noticed something. When the officers on the far side of the cameraman fired, there were at least 2 or 3 officers on the other side of the vehicle.

Epyon

JoeBlackSpade · August 4, 2007, 10:01 AM

If it was planned better, they would have all had SECTORS of FIRE as they approached, including left and right lateral limits for each one of them.

strong · August 4, 2007, 01:50 PM

The "cop" that wears make-up and narrates always makes me laugh.

It seems to me these vehicle situations always end up with cross fire situations where everyone just opens up dangerously close to friendlies.

I recall another one where officers were on both sides of the vehicle.

kcole10 · August 8, 2007, 11:37 PM

Poor training!! Obviously terrible markesmanship counteless shots and only one hit and in the arm. This just goes to show how gung ho cops are. There was no thought to safety of civilians or fellow officers that is clearly displayed. As someone who has trained with the marines and in special forces I can with almost full certanity that with a beretta m9 I could have difused the situation with less than five rounds. The opportunity is present to the officers at the time when the vehicle starts off in the yard, and pauses on the street there was time for at least ten officers to take a shot. The video stated he had tried to run over cops earlier so the option to use deadly force was readily avaliable. Foolish cops is all I can say. Hope they go to the range sometime soon or more tactical shooting classes.

Double Naught Spy · August 9, 2007, 06:10 AM

Also, the incident resulted in a friendly fire injury...

see .... http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...ad.php?t=38995

Manedwolf · August 9, 2007, 08:34 AM

Here's some other police having fun with training.

Indiana State Police doing door breaching training.

Um...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUsNv45ixwM

JoeBlackSpade · August 9, 2007, 08:39 AM

Roflmao!

kcole10 · August 9, 2007, 01:48 PM

I swear being a cop is more a joke than a job today. Seems as anyone can be one obviously it takes no skills or brains. I'm glad I don't have to serve with cops war would do more harm than good from the looks of these videos.
Semper Fi

shooter_john · August 9, 2007, 09:12 PM

Thanks for the blanket assumption and huge generalization that all cops are stupid!

I didn't know that I too don't care for the safety of the my fellow officers and the public as well, that I'm a bumbling idiot, and that my PROFESSION is a joke. I would be the first to say that the situation could've been handled and differently, but guess what, I wasn't there. Now you alledgedly have trained w/ some hi-speed guys, but I'd like to see anyone calmly stand in the path of an oncoming SUV, take aim, and press on the bad guy. And by the way, I'm in know way trying to knock the Marine Corp, several of my very best friends, coworkers, and fellow SWAT buddies are Marines, but the Corp has it's share of idiots and morons too...

DonR101395 · August 9, 2007, 09:22 PM

Quote:

I swear being a cop is more a joke than a job today. Seems as anyone can be one obviously it takes no skills or brains. I'm glad I don't have to serve with cops war would do more harm than good from the looks of these videos.
Semper Fi

Let me guess, you've had at least one "bad" experience with the police, possibly more than one

kcole10 · August 10, 2007, 10:12 AM

I have sat at road blocks and have had cars coming at me who would not stop due to the threat of car bombs we were allowed to open fire once the car reached a certain point and this is exactly what I and my fellow marines would do. So yes I have been in that situation. I have also been dug in with over three hundred insurgents shooting at as and in the whale of bullets coming by our heads we managed to hold them off for over an hour waiting on air support. From cops who are in the marines I have heard on numerous occassions that swat training does not hold a candle to recon or special forces. No not all cops are bad cops but the situation involving the suv could have ended a lot better had the cops been trained better.

JoeBlackSpade · August 10, 2007, 10:26 AM

kcole, it sure depends on the DEPARTMENT we're talking about.

Here's one for everyone here: Generalizations are generally wrong.

Take for example the Las Vegas SWAT, Los Angeles, or Atlanta. Orlando SWAT. I've watched these departments competing in SWAT tournaments- alongside the likes of Grenshutzegrouppe-9 ! In one recent tournament, the GSG-9 came in 3rd place, with first going to Nevada, and 2nd going to Orlando, IIRC.

For those who don't know, GSG-9 is a world class anti-terrorist unit that cross trains with USN SEAL Team-6, FBI HRT and US Army Special Forces. They travel to the states and compete with SWAT teams and others, to keep their edge.

Its all about the individual unit at the particular time.

I just thought the video was funny, but I don't think its a good indicator of ALL police departments. The ones in the videos, however, are in need of some basic fundamentals.

In my opinion, the "who's who" of elite, highly skilled professional units closely resembles the NFL, with capabilities being generally uniform, but with actual proficiency based on a constantly fluctuating set of variables, including personnel, training cycles, budgetary issues, and availability of equipment. Just like one football team can go to the Superbowl last year, and start their first game this season losing 10 to 26 to the Bucs (where you at, Colts?). It's all about who is "on" right now. And whoever's on right now might not be next year, depending on rotations of personnel, whoever is in charge leaving, or coming aboard, etc.

kcole10 · August 10, 2007, 01:01 PM

Hey man you are correct just depends on your personel. Training does make a great deal of differnce though and that is where you sort out your personell. A lot of guys I went to airborne school with could not handlejumping out of a plane that was it for them. Saw a lot of guys who could not handle the anxiety breakdown test and mental stress they then left training. Basically I am trying to say you are only as good as you are trained, and unfortunatly police departments do not offer very rigourous training. I would love to see the most elite swat team whoever that may be go in competition against a recon platoon or special forces believe that would be a good match. I have a few buddies who are SEALS but they reveal nothing about their training except they run a lot.

Manedwolf · August 10, 2007, 01:09 PM

I just want to see someone explain just what the hell they were thinking with the doorbreach training. Where did they think the blast would go, trying it on a closet, and why didn't anyone realize that acoustic tile will come down if hit with a pressure wave greater than a hard sneeze?

shooter_john · August 10, 2007, 08:46 PM

First of all thanks for your service, glad you made it through everything you mentioned without any extra holes. I think we all agree that particular situation could've gone better, but just please cut the rest of us a little slack next time before deciding we're all retarded!

kcole10 · August 10, 2007, 09:08 PM

Sorry man just mistakes like that take severe consequces when you overseas some result in death. I have seen guys get hit by enemy fire and its not very a pretty sight.

RockyMtnTactical · August 23, 2007, 09:30 PM

Scary, they could have hit their own guys.

I've seen this video before but it was a long time ago IIRC.

August 4, 2007, 09:52 AM	#1
Epyon Senior Member Join Date: July 10, 2006 Location: Awesome, Colorado Posts: 700	Good SWAT training? http://youtube.com/watch?v=ummnOoSfd...elated&search= I was checking out this video, and I wanted some opinions on their training, ignoring the sensationalist newscast, I noticed something. When the officers on the far side of the cameraman fired, there were at least 2 or 3 officers on the other side of the vehicle. Epyon __________________ Vote Epyon for president in 2008, if you vote for Epyon all of your wildest dreams will come true: This campaign was brought to you by Epyon; funded in part by the Pizza Party, Surprise Party, Birthday Party, and Slumber Party.

August 9, 2007, 09:12 PM	#9
shooter_john Senior Member Join Date: December 11, 2002 Location: ALABAMA Posts: 1,472	kcole... Thanks for the blanket assumption and huge generalization that all cops are stupid! I didn't know that I too don't care for the safety of the my fellow officers and the public as well, that I'm a bumbling idiot, and that my PROFESSION is a joke. I would be the first to say that the situation could've been handled and differently, but guess what, I wasn't there. Now you alledgedly have trained w/ some hi-speed guys, but I'd like to see anyone calmly stand in the path of an oncoming SUV, take aim, and press on the bad guy. And by the way, I'm in know way trying to knock the Marine Corp, several of my very best friends, coworkers, and fellow SWAT buddies are Marines, but the Corp has it's share of idiots and morons too... __________________ TROTAC.com

August 10, 2007, 10:12 AM	#11
kcole10 Junior Member Join Date: July 30, 2007 Posts: 12	shooter john I have sat at road blocks and have had cars coming at me who would not stop due to the threat of car bombs we were allowed to open fire once the car reached a certain point and this is exactly what I and my fellow marines would do. So yes I have been in that situation. I have also been dug in with over three hundred insurgents shooting at as and in the whale of bullets coming by our heads we managed to hold them off for over an hour waiting on air support. From cops who are in the marines I have heard on numerous occassions that swat training does not hold a candle to recon or special forces. No not all cops are bad cops but the situation involving the suv could have ended a lot better had the cops been trained better.

August 10, 2007, 01:01 PM	#13
kcole10 Junior Member Join Date: July 30, 2007 Posts: 12	JoeBlackSpade Hey man you are correct just depends on your personel. Training does make a great deal of differnce though and that is where you sort out your personell. A lot of guys I went to airborne school with could not handlejumping out of a plane that was it for them. Saw a lot of guys who could not handle the anxiety breakdown test and mental stress they then left training. Basically I am trying to say you are only as good as you are trained, and unfortunatly police departments do not offer very rigourous training. I would love to see the most elite swat team whoever that may be go in competition against a recon platoon or special forces believe that would be a good match. I have a few buddies who are SEALS but they reveal nothing about their training except they run a lot.

August 10, 2007, 08:46 PM	#15
shooter_john Senior Member Join Date: December 11, 2002 Location: ALABAMA Posts: 1,472	kcole First of all thanks for your service, glad you made it through everything you mentioned without any extra holes. I think we all agree that particular situation could've gone better, but just please cut the rest of us a little slack next time before deciding we're all retarded! __________________ TROTAC.com

August 4, 2007, 10:01 AM	#2
JoeBlackSpade Senior Member Join Date: July 4, 2007 Posts: 162	If it was planned better, they would have all had SECTORS of FIRE as they approached, including left and right lateral limits for each one of them.

August 4, 2007, 01:50 PM	#3
strong Member Join Date: July 23, 2007 Posts: 31	The "cop" that wears make-up and narrates always makes me laugh. It seems to me these vehicle situations always end up with cross fire situations where everyone just opens up dangerously close to friendlies. I recall another one where officers were on both sides of the vehicle.

August 8, 2007, 11:37 PM	#4
kcole10 Junior Member Join Date: July 30, 2007 Posts: 12	Poor training!! Obviously terrible markesmanship counteless shots and only one hit and in the arm. This just goes to show how gung ho cops are. There was no thought to safety of civilians or fellow officers that is clearly displayed. As someone who has trained with the marines and in special forces I can with almost full certanity that with a beretta m9 I could have difused the situation with less than five rounds. The opportunity is present to the officers at the time when the vehicle starts off in the yard, and pauses on the street there was time for at least ten officers to take a shot. The video stated he had tried to run over cops earlier so the option to use deadly force was readily avaliable. Foolish cops is all I can say. Hope they go to the range sometime soon or more tactical shooting classes.

August 9, 2007, 06:10 AM	#5
Double Naught Spy Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2001 Location: Forestburg, Montague Cnty, TX Posts: 12,717	Also, the incident resulted in a friendly fire injury... see .... http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...ad.php?t=38995

August 9, 2007, 08:34 AM	#6
Manedwolf Junior member Join Date: May 28, 2007 Posts: 3,266	Here's some other police having fun with training. Indiana State Police doing door breaching training. Um... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUsNv45ixwM

August 9, 2007, 08:39 AM	#7
JoeBlackSpade Senior Member Join Date: July 4, 2007 Posts: 162	Roflmao!

August 9, 2007, 01:48 PM	#8
kcole10 Junior Member Join Date: July 30, 2007 Posts: 12	I swear being a cop is more a joke than a job today. Seems as anyone can be one obviously it takes no skills or brains. I'm glad I don't have to serve with cops war would do more harm than good from the looks of these videos. Semper Fi

August 10, 2007, 10:26 AM	#12
JoeBlackSpade Senior Member Join Date: July 4, 2007 Posts: 162	kcole, it sure depends on the DEPARTMENT we're talking about. Here's one for everyone here: Generalizations are generally wrong. Take for example the Las Vegas SWAT, Los Angeles, or Atlanta. Orlando SWAT. I've watched these departments competing in SWAT tournaments- alongside the likes of Grenshutzegrouppe-9 ! In one recent tournament, the GSG-9 came in 3rd place, with first going to Nevada, and 2nd going to Orlando, IIRC. For those who don't know, GSG-9 is a world class anti-terrorist unit that cross trains with USN SEAL Team-6, FBI HRT and US Army Special Forces. They travel to the states and compete with SWAT teams and others, to keep their edge. Its all about the individual unit at the particular time. I just thought the video was funny, but I don't think its a good indicator of ALL police departments. The ones in the videos, however, are in need of some basic fundamentals. In my opinion, the "who's who" of elite, highly skilled professional units closely resembles the NFL, with capabilities being generally uniform, but with actual proficiency based on a constantly fluctuating set of variables, including personnel, training cycles, budgetary issues, and availability of equipment. Just like one football team can go to the Superbowl last year, and start their first game this season losing 10 to 26 to the Bucs (where you at, Colts?). It's all about who is "on" right now. And whoever's on right now might not be next year, depending on rotations of personnel, whoever is in charge leaving, or coming aboard, etc.

August 10, 2007, 01:09 PM	#14
Manedwolf Junior member Join Date: May 28, 2007 Posts: 3,266	I just want to see someone explain just what the hell they were thinking with the doorbreach training. Where did they think the blast would go, trying it on a closet, and why didn't anyone realize that acoustic tile will come down if hit with a pressure wave greater than a hard sneeze?

August 10, 2007, 09:08 PM	#16
kcole10 Junior Member Join Date: July 30, 2007 Posts: 12	shooter john Sorry man just mistakes like that take severe consequces when you overseas some result in death. I have seen guys get hit by enemy fire and its not very a pretty sight.

August 23, 2007, 09:30 PM	#17
RockyMtnTactical Senior Member Join Date: October 21, 2006 Location: Western US Posts: 1,961	Scary, they could have hit their own guys. I've seen this video before but it was a long time ago IIRC. __________________ https://battlebornreview.com/