Penetration?

reap · December 20, 2007, 11:13 AM

This is NOT to start a caliber war but to search out opinions. This was a local incident early this week where an auxillary police officer fired his pistol twice in defense... read the article and towards the end is the description of where both bullets ended up. I have been unable to find what caliber was being used but it sure makes a point about having enough gun.

"Creve Coeur - Seated in his truck at the Northwoods Mall parking lot Monday night, Chad R. Hjortshoj thought he heard what sounded like a scream. After opening his door, the muffled noise became clearer - a woman's voice yelling for help."

Entire story at:

http://www.pjstar.com/stories/122007...8P6HAF.029.php

Tom2 · December 20, 2007, 11:26 AM

I don't know, from the sound of it he was off duty, maybe he was carrying some kind of pocket pistol as an off duty piece? Maybe a Raven .25?

tacticalmedic · December 20, 2007, 12:32 PM

What about it being UNLOADED

I have never known an officer to have his off duty weapon unloaded when he was out in public.

reap · December 20, 2007, 02:50 PM

Well, on that item, We live in Illinios and he is an auxillary police officer. I don't know if he is allowed to keep a loaded weapon with him only being auxillary.

DMK · December 20, 2007, 04:19 PM

No telling what caliber he had. Bullets of all calibers do funny things when they hit glass. Even rifle bullets can have a hard time with glass deflecting them and redirecting their energy.

That said, I think penetration is the most important quality in a defensive handgun round (aside from accuracy). Expansion and bullet diameter are a very good things, but only if they do not compromise penetration. That's one reason I will not use HPs in any caliber under 9mm or .38 Special +P.

DMK · December 20, 2007, 04:20 PM

Quote:

What about it being UNLOADED I have never known an officer to have his off duty weapon unloaded when he was out in public.

He had it locked in the glovebox while he was shopping. Maybe he took the ammo with him inside so as not to leave a loaded weapon unattended.

pbgunrunner · December 4, 2012, 04:56 PM

The gun was a kel tec 3at and i was shooting winchester silvertips. Definately ended up being the wrong choice as the soft lead bullets totaly came apart in the windshield and were more or less stopped by the side glass and a heavy leather coat. As far as having the gun unloaded, it was that way because illinios doesnt have cc and aux officers cant cary off duty. Im a sworn officer now and i carry a kahr k9 w federal hst bonded bullets. I realize this is an old post, but i just came across it, thought you might wanna know! - chad
Ps- thanks to good work by a peoria pd officer working off duty at the bus station, the bad guy was caught within the hour and is nowdoing 60 years.

2damnold4this · December 4, 2012, 06:27 PM

I'm glad everything turned out ok. Thanks for the information you provided.

**Mike Irwin** · December 4, 2012, 06:42 PM

I'll take this time to remind everyone that TFL has a Copyrighted Materials Policy, which we STRICTLY enforce.

If you want to discuss an article that has been published elsewhere, read the policy before you post the article.

**Mike Irwin** · December 4, 2012, 06:45 PM

Wait a second...

This is from 2007... The link doesn't work anymore because the article is gone.

Even so, I'm sorry, but the full account of the incident can't remain on our pages.

Glad everything worked out OK for you.

Tactical Jackalope · December 5, 2012, 03:49 PM

That really confused the heck out of me.

So Chad actually commented up there?

Yeah, well...glad all is well.

Just in case anyone wants to know.

http://qconline.com/archives/qco/pri....php?id=367289

nate45 · December 5, 2012, 04:13 PM

Policeman standing in front of the vehicle blocking the escape route, holding up his badge and pistol, orders him to stop and surrender. Carjacker puts it in forward gear, yep he deserved to be shot for assaulting a police officer with a deadly weapon.

chris in va · December 5, 2012, 09:02 PM

It's my understanding the group responsible for suing 'copyright' infringers is no longer able to do so. Got notified of this by a mod on another board.

**Mike Irwin** · December 5, 2012, 10:01 PM

"It's my understanding the group responsible for suing 'copyright' infringers is no longer able to do so. Got notified of this by a mod on another board."

Correct. But we're not changing our policy. Copying in entire stories is not good practice, and it exposes TFL, and its parent organization, to unnecessary risk in the long term.

December 20, 2007, 11:13 AM	#1
reap Member Join Date: March 8, 2005 Location: Illinois Posts: 72	Penetration? This is NOT to start a caliber war but to search out opinions. This was a local incident early this week where an auxillary police officer fired his pistol twice in defense... read the article and towards the end is the description of where both bullets ended up. I have been unable to find what caliber was being used but it sure makes a point about having enough gun. "Creve Coeur - Seated in his truck at the Northwoods Mall parking lot Monday night, Chad R. Hjortshoj thought he heard what sounded like a scream. After opening his door, the muffled noise became clearer - a woman's voice yelling for help." Entire story at: http://www.pjstar.com/stories/122007...8P6HAF.029.php Last edited by Mike Irwin; December 4, 2012 at 06:40 PM.

December 20, 2007, 11:26 AM	#2
Tom2 Senior Member Join Date: June 23, 2004 Location: Ohio Posts: 5,676	I don't know, from the sound of it he was off duty, maybe he was carrying some kind of pocket pistol as an off duty piece? Maybe a Raven .25? __________________ Your gun is like your nose, it is just wrong for someone else to pick it for you!

December 20, 2007, 02:50 PM	#4
reap Member Join Date: March 8, 2005 Location: Illinois Posts: 72	unloaded... Well, on that item, We live in Illinios and he is an auxillary police officer. I don't know if he is allowed to keep a loaded weapon with him only being auxillary.

December 20, 2007, 04:19 PM	#5
DMK Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 2001 Location: Over the hills and far, far away Posts: 3,206	No telling what caliber he had. Bullets of all calibers do funny things when they hit glass. Even rifle bullets can have a hard time with glass deflecting them and redirecting their energy. That said, I think penetration is the most important quality in a defensive handgun round (aside from accuracy). Expansion and bullet diameter are a very good things, but only if they do not compromise penetration. That's one reason I will not use HPs in any caliber under 9mm or .38 Special +P. __________________ - Homeland Security begins at home: Support your Second Amendment - www.gunowners.org - www.saf.org - act.nraila.org - www.grnc.org

December 4, 2012, 04:56 PM	#7
pbgunrunner Junior Member Join Date: September 12, 2006 Posts: 13	I can tell you.... The gun was a kel tec 3at and i was shooting winchester silvertips. Definately ended up being the wrong choice as the soft lead bullets totaly came apart in the windshield and were more or less stopped by the side glass and a heavy leather coat. As far as having the gun unloaded, it was that way because illinios doesnt have cc and aux officers cant cary off duty. Im a sworn officer now and i carry a kahr k9 w federal hst bonded bullets. I realize this is an old post, but i just came across it, thought you might wanna know! - chad Ps- thanks to good work by a peoria pd officer working off duty at the bus station, the bad guy was caught within the hour and is nowdoing 60 years.

December 20, 2007, 12:32 PM	#3
tacticalmedic Senior Member Join Date: December 18, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 193	What about it being UNLOADED I have never known an officer to have his off duty weapon unloaded when he was out in public.

December 4, 2012, 06:27 PM	#8
2damnold4this Senior Member Join Date: August 12, 2009 Location: Athens, Georgia Posts: 2,526	I'm glad everything turned out ok. Thanks for the information you provided.

December 4, 2012, 06:42 PM	#9
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,379	I'll take this time to remind everyone that TFL has a Copyrighted Materials Policy, which we STRICTLY enforce. If you want to discuss an article that has been published elsewhere, read the policy before you post the article. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

December 4, 2012, 06:45 PM	#10
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,379	Wait a second... This is from 2007... The link doesn't work anymore because the article is gone. Even so, I'm sorry, but the full account of the incident can't remain on our pages. Glad everything worked out OK for you. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

December 5, 2012, 03:49 PM	#11
Tactical Jackalope Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2010 Location: Miami, Florida Posts: 6,429	That really confused the heck out of me. So Chad actually commented up there? Yeah, well...glad all is well. Just in case anyone wants to know. http://qconline.com/archives/qco/pri....php?id=367289

December 5, 2012, 04:13 PM	#12
nate45 Senior Member Join Date: July 15, 2007 Location: Illinois Posts: 3,746	Policeman standing in front of the vehicle blocking the escape route, holding up his badge and pistol, orders him to stop and surrender. Carjacker puts it in forward gear, yep he deserved to be shot for assaulting a police officer with a deadly weapon. __________________ "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms."- Thomas Jefferson ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ (>_<)

December 5, 2012, 09:02 PM	#13
chris in va Senior Member Join Date: December 26, 2004 Location: Louisville KY Posts: 13,806	It's my understanding the group responsible for suing 'copyright' infringers is no longer able to do so. Got notified of this by a mod on another board.

December 5, 2012, 10:01 PM	#14
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,379	"It's my understanding the group responsible for suing 'copyright' infringers is no longer able to do so. Got notified of this by a mod on another board." Correct. But we're not changing our policy. Copying in entire stories is not good practice, and it exposes TFL, and its parent organization, to unnecessary risk in the long term. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

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