How did you learn to really aim an iron sight Mauser?

Ignition Override · May 20, 2010, 02:07 AM

The question is for any rifle with such open sights.
This has baffled me, although the ancient Savage .22 has a nice tiny bead sight, but using the (previous) Mosin Nagants was a major challenge.

For this middle-aged, very late-starter with guns, there might never be an Appleseed class in the Memphis area.
Two friends at the nice range have given some basic pointers for 50 yards, but when alone, after three shots totally missed the sticky black target at 100 yards, gave up on that.

Will try 100 yards with the Enfield #4 (aperture sights), but the open sights of the Mauser will require some personal instruction. Have lots of Yugo and Czech ammo (3,000+), but not yet the skills to really use it. Decent skills are desired before the left eye goes more downhill with age.

Weeks after buying the Yugo Mauser, was told that the previous owner took a deer at 200 yards with the iron sights.

madcratebuilder · May 20, 2010, 09:45 AM

I agree that the Mauser platform sights leave much to be desired. I have never made friends with the forward mounted rear sight, Swiss, German or English. What has helped me is marking the tip of the front blade. Paint, whiteout, nail polish or a commercial product like "Bright Sights" all work and help me define the front blade.

The M48A I recently purchased came with a Mojo rear sight. It's an aperture sight and it should help. I haven't got it mounted yet but I think with the peep rear and a painted blade it should be a major improvement. I'm not sure how I'm going to like that peep mounted so far forward. Maybe it's just a psychological thing as I shoot fine with a rear mount aperture or buckhorn.

Hardcase · May 20, 2010, 01:03 PM

You know, I guess that I was lucky because my dad taught me to shoot with an 1891 Argentine Mauser, so those forward mounted iron sights were all that I had to deal with for years.

In fact, now that I think about it, other than my Garand and my sporty 1903 that has a scope, all of my rifles have sights out on the barrel.

These days it's getting a little tougher to deal with, what with my eyes being as old as the rest of me. One of the fellas that I was shooting with on Monday came up with a nifty trick: he wears trifocals and had a set of shooting glasses made with the middle prescription. It puts the post in perfect view, with the rear just slightly blurry. The target's not terribly well focused, but he just puts the post in the middle of the blur. It works nicely for him. Since I steadfastly refuse to admit that I need even bifocals, I obviously have to make do with squinting. Alas, I think that the next glasses will have two prescriptions in them.

Oh, and practice.

James K · May 20, 2010, 03:56 PM

The Mauser sight picture is the inverted V front in the V rear to look like a "W". The point of the front sight is then put on the target center, not a 6 o'clock hold like many folks are used to.

Jim

2500ak · May 20, 2010, 04:15 PM

It took me a long time to get iron sights, for the longest time I couldn't hit the broad side of a barn to save my life.

Then one day I picked up my mosin and hit five cans at 50 yards. Ever since I've been able to just pick it up and hit stuff.

It was around the time I was using a friends big chevy-tac rifle and I think that forced me to prefect my cheekweld and trigger etiquette. I also started using a rest for the end of the barrel (usually just a bag of sand). Also the realization that the front and rear sights line up like pieces of a puzzle and that the front part should be placed wherever you want the bullet to go.

It was almost like flipping on a light. I'd say fire a bunch of that ammo, if you're sensitive to it use something to dampen the recoil so that you don't teach yourself to flinch, and remember that when the sear breaks loose it should surprise you (so you can't flinch at all)

TX Hunter · May 20, 2010, 06:51 PM

I give up on my Yugo Mauser Sights, so I ordered a Scout Rail.
Dang thing shoots too high.If I change the Front Sight the numbers on the rear sight become noil and void. So Heck with it.

I can however hit what I am aiming at with my Sons Mossin Nagant, Im getting ready to order one for myself.

**44 AMP** · May 21, 2010, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Dang thing shoots too high.If I change the Front Sight the numbers on the rear sight become noil and void. So Heck with it.

No, it doesn't shoot too high, you just aren't aiming low enough.

The one I am most familiar with is the Swedish mauser, but in general it holds true for most military mauser sights. The basic problem is that Americans expect the rifle to hit where the sights point, usually at 100yds. European arms makers and military training in the early 20th century had different ideas.

For example, the Swede is set to "zero" at 300 meters. And, soldiers of the era were taught to shoot (aim) for the enemy's belt buckle (low center of mass). This meant that a rifle that shot "high" at close range would still deliver a good hit, and also helped compensate for errors in range estimation, even at longer ranges.

The most common way to correct for shooting high at 100yds (short range by the standards of the past) is to install a taller front sight. Myself, I just aim a bit low.

IF you do install a taller front sight, yes, the markings on the rear sight will be off a little bit. Again, the answer is to learn the hold off needed to get back on target.

If you can't get on target at 100yds, shoot closer, 50yds. Expect to off for height, aiming dead center. As long as you are on the paper, and centered left right at closer range, you are getting there. Then move out to longer range. Nothing should change, except the impact height above your point of aim. (ok, allow a bit more for wind

)

Drachenstein · May 21, 2010, 10:43 PM

The trick is in breathing, trigger pull, and a consistent cheek weld. To facilitate that is practice. I was teaching one of my kids the other day and was doing so on a .22Cal. He kept wanting to do something larger but I kept him with the .22. It’s a lot cheaper to practice with and if you can hit the target with a .22 you can hit it with anything. The only difference is the butt whoopin after the bang,,,,,,,,,, it’ll also teach not to flinch during trigger pull. After the fourth brick or so you’ll start to get the hang of it

As to the eyesight well,,,,,,,, 50+ my Mauser sights are a blur as well as the Garands. I can still manage the Mosin’s though, the rear sight’s slightly farther from the face,,,,, or so it seems. After years of 20/15 I can’t even read a menu without bifocals. I hunt now with only a scope; after a couple years of denial ,,,,,,, and killing many trees. I just don’t have the heart to butcher a C&R Milsup with a scope so I ran out and bought a Ruger 77. After hunting many years with my K98 I retired her, she didn’t quit hitting targets; I did.

TX Hunter · May 22, 2010, 08:06 AM

I dont want to butcher this Rifle Either, as it is in very nice conditon, and groups nicely, just high, So I am putting a Scout Rail where the Rear Sight mounts, The Rifle will be able to return to its original Condition if desired.

AlphaAssault · May 22, 2010, 08:44 AM

Ive noticed that the sights on my mauser are quite small. Ive got good eyesight, and Im still going to have to practice on them before i learn how to look through them properly. before the summer is out, i WILL be getting a scout scope for it; and ill be able to return it to original condition if/when the need arises.

TX Hunter, where did you get the scope rail from?

TX Hunter · May 22, 2010, 08:56 AM

I bought my Scout Rail from The SportsmanS Guide, It only cost $20.00 Plus Shipping
Just go to WWW.Sportsmansguide.com Its Item number AKA-173234 I havent bought the Scope yet, but the Rail arrived yesterday, and looks like it will work pretty well, its a weaver style rail with set screws to secure it.

AlphaAssault · May 22, 2010, 09:14 AM

Thats the kind I was looking at getting. Ebay sells a package with that mount and a (admittedly, quite cheap) scout scope for between $50-$60, which is probably what Ill end up going with. I was a little hesitant, because Ive read a lot of mixed reviews; though a lot of people seem to miss the little allen screws that hold the adjustment screws in place. Definitely let me know how the instillation goes and how well it actually works; these rifles just beg for a scope, but no one wants to permanently modify their rifle to mount one.

TX Hunter · May 22, 2010, 09:26 AM

Mr Asphault,
When I mount a the Scope I will try it, and give you a range report.
I love the Rifle, and the cartridge, just need to get to where I can hit with it.

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/cb.aspx?a=606368

Drachenstein · May 23, 2010, 08:27 AM

I've tried the B-square mount and a LER Scope on my K98, problem was it wouldn't maintain its zero, even with a seating burst.

May 20, 2010, 02:07 AM	#1
Ignition Override Senior Member Join Date: February 18, 2008 Location: About 20 nm from the Big Muddy Posts: 2,884	How did you learn to really aim an iron sight Mauser? The question is for any rifle with such open sights. This has baffled me, although the ancient Savage .22 has a nice tiny bead sight, but using the (previous) Mosin Nagants was a major challenge. For this middle-aged, very late-starter with guns, there might never be an Appleseed class in the Memphis area. Two friends at the nice range have given some basic pointers for 50 yards, but when alone, after three shots totally missed the sticky black target at 100 yards, gave up on that. Will try 100 yards with the Enfield #4 (aperture sights), but the open sights of the Mauser will require some personal instruction. Have lots of Yugo and Czech ammo (3,000+), but not yet the skills to really use it. Decent skills are desired before the left eye goes more downhill with age. Weeks after buying the Yugo Mauser, was told that the previous owner took a deer at 200 yards with the iron sights. Last edited by Ignition Override; May 20, 2010 at 02:13 AM.

May 20, 2010, 01:03 PM	#3
Hardcase Senior Member Join Date: April 14, 2009 Location: Sunny Southern Idaho Posts: 1,909	You know, I guess that I was lucky because my dad taught me to shoot with an 1891 Argentine Mauser, so those forward mounted iron sights were all that I had to deal with for years. In fact, now that I think about it, other than my Garand and my sporty 1903 that has a scope, all of my rifles have sights out on the barrel. These days it's getting a little tougher to deal with, what with my eyes being as old as the rest of me. One of the fellas that I was shooting with on Monday came up with a nifty trick: he wears trifocals and had a set of shooting glasses made with the middle prescription. It puts the post in perfect view, with the rear just slightly blurry. The target's not terribly well focused, but he just puts the post in the middle of the blur. It works nicely for him. Since I steadfastly refuse to admit that I need even bifocals, I obviously have to make do with squinting. Alas, I think that the next glasses will have two prescriptions in them. Oh, and practice. __________________ Well we don't rent pigs and I figure it's better to say it right out front because a man that does like to rent pigs is... he's hard to stop - Gus McCrae

May 22, 2010, 08:56 AM	#11
TX Hunter Senior Member Join Date: February 11, 2010 Location: East Texas USA Posts: 1,805	MR Alpha Asphault, I bought my Scout Rail from The SportsmanS Guide, It only cost $20.00 Plus Shipping Just go to WWW.Sportsmansguide.com Its Item number AKA-173234 I havent bought the Scope yet, but the Rail arrived yesterday, and looks like it will work pretty well, its a weaver style rail with set screws to secure it.

May 22, 2010, 09:26 AM	#13
TX Hunter Senior Member Join Date: February 11, 2010 Location: East Texas USA Posts: 1,805	Mr Asphault, When I mount a the Scope I will try it, and give you a range report. I love the Rifle, and the cartridge, just need to get to where I can hit with it. http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/cb.aspx?a=606368 Last edited by TX Hunter; May 22, 2010 at 09:32 AM.

May 20, 2010, 09:45 AM	#2
madcratebuilder Senior Member Join Date: November 2, 2007 Location: Northern Orygun Posts: 4,923	I agree that the Mauser platform sights leave much to be desired. I have never made friends with the forward mounted rear sight, Swiss, German or English. What has helped me is marking the tip of the front blade. Paint, whiteout, nail polish or a commercial product like "Bright Sights" all work and help me define the front blade. The M48A I recently purchased came with a Mojo rear sight. It's an aperture sight and it should help. I haven't got it mounted yet but I think with the peep rear and a painted blade it should be a major improvement. I'm not sure how I'm going to like that peep mounted so far forward. Maybe it's just a psychological thing as I shoot fine with a rear mount aperture or buckhorn.

May 20, 2010, 03:56 PM	#4
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	The Mauser sight picture is the inverted V front in the V rear to look like a "W". The point of the front sight is then put on the target center, not a 6 o'clock hold like many folks are used to. Jim

May 20, 2010, 04:15 PM	#5
2500ak Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2010 Posts: 132	It took me a long time to get iron sights, for the longest time I couldn't hit the broad side of a barn to save my life. Then one day I picked up my mosin and hit five cans at 50 yards. Ever since I've been able to just pick it up and hit stuff. It was around the time I was using a friends big chevy-tac rifle and I think that forced me to prefect my cheekweld and trigger etiquette. I also started using a rest for the end of the barrel (usually just a bag of sand). Also the realization that the front and rear sights line up like pieces of a puzzle and that the front part should be placed wherever you want the bullet to go. It was almost like flipping on a light. I'd say fire a bunch of that ammo, if you're sensitive to it use something to dampen the recoil so that you don't teach yourself to flinch, and remember that when the sear breaks loose it should surprise you (so you can't flinch at all)

May 20, 2010, 06:51 PM	#6
TX Hunter Senior Member Join Date: February 11, 2010 Location: East Texas USA Posts: 1,805	I give up on my Yugo Mauser Sights, so I ordered a Scout Rail. Dang thing shoots too high.If I change the Front Sight the numbers on the rear sight become noil and void. So Heck with it. I can however hit what I am aiming at with my Sons Mossin Nagant, Im getting ready to order one for myself.

May 21, 2010, 10:43 PM	#8
Drachenstein Senior Member Join Date: November 1, 2008 Location: Elizabethtown, KY Posts: 224	The trick is in breathing, trigger pull, and a consistent cheek weld. To facilitate that is practice. I was teaching one of my kids the other day and was doing so on a .22Cal. He kept wanting to do something larger but I kept him with the .22. It’s a lot cheaper to practice with and if you can hit the target with a .22 you can hit it with anything. The only difference is the butt whoopin after the bang,,,,,,,,,, it’ll also teach not to flinch during trigger pull. After the fourth brick or so you’ll start to get the hang of it As to the eyesight well,,,,,,,, 50+ my Mauser sights are a blur as well as the Garands. I can still manage the Mosin’s though, the rear sight’s slightly farther from the face,,,,, or so it seems. After years of 20/15 I can’t even read a menu without bifocals. I hunt now with only a scope; after a couple years of denial ,,,,,,, and killing many trees. I just don’t have the heart to butcher a C&R Milsup with a scope so I ran out and bought a Ruger 77. After hunting many years with my K98 I retired her, she didn’t quit hitting targets; I did.

May 22, 2010, 08:06 AM	#9
TX Hunter Senior Member Join Date: February 11, 2010 Location: East Texas USA Posts: 1,805	I dont want to butcher this Rifle Either, as it is in very nice conditon, and groups nicely, just high, So I am putting a Scout Rail where the Rear Sight mounts, The Rifle will be able to return to its original Condition if desired.

May 22, 2010, 08:44 AM	#10
AlphaAssault Member Join Date: May 12, 2010 Location: East Tx; Tx Hillcountry Posts: 50	Ive noticed that the sights on my mauser are quite small. Ive got good eyesight, and Im still going to have to practice on them before i learn how to look through them properly. before the summer is out, i WILL be getting a scout scope for it; and ill be able to return it to original condition if/when the need arises. TX Hunter, where did you get the scope rail from?

May 22, 2010, 09:14 AM	#12
AlphaAssault Member Join Date: May 12, 2010 Location: East Tx; Tx Hillcountry Posts: 50	Thats the kind I was looking at getting. Ebay sells a package with that mount and a (admittedly, quite cheap) scout scope for between $50-$60, which is probably what Ill end up going with. I was a little hesitant, because Ive read a lot of mixed reviews; though a lot of people seem to miss the little allen screws that hold the adjustment screws in place. Definitely let me know how the instillation goes and how well it actually works; these rifles just beg for a scope, but no one wants to permanently modify their rifle to mount one.

May 23, 2010, 08:27 AM	#14
Drachenstein Senior Member Join Date: November 1, 2008 Location: Elizabethtown, KY Posts: 224	I've tried the B-square mount and a LER Scope on my K98, problem was it wouldn't maintain its zero, even with a seating burst.