Help w/Lee carbide pistol expander die

[Dead-Nuts-Zero]

I picked up a set of Lee Carbide .380 dies. Never had Lee before but was highly recomended by many. Here is the problem/question...In attempt to set up the expander (powder through) die. I adjusted it down to the shell holder and backed off as directed. I put a resized case in and gave it a try to adjust it. I realized that on the up stroke it expanded for the bullet (properly I think). When I bring it back down, there is a floating die (called expander plug, per instructions sheet) within the main die. This makes the down stroke bind the case between this floating die and the inside of the main die. This is difficult to describe, but I hope someone with Lee dies will know what I mean. I have other handgun dies but no such floating expander style with powder charge ability.

The instructions say this floating piece aids in shaking the powder down through the die into the case. Being at the earliest stages of any setup, I am not sure I will be droping powder with this method. I may just drop it direct from my powder measure mounted to my bench as I have with other die sets.

I have only run two cases through the mill as I just haven't had the time to work with it. The problem looking ahead seems to be that when I screw the die into the turret to adjust it down, seems ok. But I am at the maxed limit, snug against the case holder producing a case that is not properly expanded. Seems like I am forcing the expanded part of the brass back to where it started from.
Can anyone give me an idea of where I am headed with this floating die adjustment?

I hope someone can figure out what I am trying to say here.
Thanks for any help or suggestions.

[Leftoverdj]

Dead, how about backing up and only telling us what we need to know? I don't have the slightest idea what you were trying to say.

[Toney]

Something don't sound right, is the die assembled right? is the nut on top the die screwed down all the way? With the die touching the shellholder looks like you would split them cases with open.
Some of the cases are harder to expand, you set it up for rem cases it mght not be enough for the win cases

[caz223]

Mine does that too, in .45 colt. (My only lee die set.)
With a lot of people loading progressive on dillons, this die is unused. Powder thru expanding is used on lee and hornady, possibly others (Maybe Lyman.).
It seems to work fine. I don't believe any adjustment is necessary, other than screwing the whole die body up or down to adjust belling.

[Rimrod]

If it is sticking too hard to release you can either back out the whole die as caz said or back out the little nut thingy on top. It will stick and release with a jerk on the downstroke that is the way they work.

I'm going to get flamed for this but, Lee products aren't all that great. They are cheap and do work, sometimes-depending on what it is. If money is not a problem go with RCBS. I have presses dies and accessories from both and for the stuff I really care about I use RCBS. The Lee is used for people who ask me to load for them or playing around. But in my opinion Lee is highly over-rated.

[Master Blaster]

How much of a bell are you putting on the case?

If it looks like a spitoon or a trumpet its too much.

If you are shaving bullets when you go to seat them, its too little. The bell should be set by raising or lowering the die lowering increases the bell raising decreases. Either too much or too little belling will cause the case to stick a bit, and that will depend on the hardness of the brass, and how clean it is too.

Do you tumble and polish the cases or are they all dirty and gritty? That could also make them stick a bit. What brand of brass is it??? If its AMERC Throw it away and get some real brass. I have noticed federal brass, specifically mil spec brass with a year in the headstamp and a crimped primer pocket, in .45 acp tends to stick in my dillon's equivalent of a belling through powder die, and other brands dont stick.

First thing is wether you have the correct amount of belling. The belling should be barely visible to the naked eye very barely. It should be just enough to seat the bullet without any shaving of bullet material, or collapsing of the case mouth when seating.

Tend to that adjustment first, and let us know.

Of course it could possibly be a defect in the die, or even the wrong die!!! is the die labeled .380/9mm????

With a lot of people loading progressive on dillons, this die is unused.

Dillon uses what they call a powder funnel and a powder die, which is basically the same as a through powder die in the way it works, it bells the case and actuates the powder measure to drop powder through the belling "Funnel".

[Dead-Nuts-Zero]

Sorry about the original post. It was late, I was tired, I didn’t explain well. It was two weeks ago I did this work. caz223, Rimrod, Master Blaster seem to understand most of the problem, maybe they use these style dies.

Lyman & RCBS are my other dies. I was convinced the lee dies were great. They happened to be on sale at the time with 4 & 5 star ratings. The 13 bucks spent was maybe my 1st mistake! I am using once fired Magtech brass that I fired, washed, tumbled & cleaned well. The dies are carbide.

I started out with very shallow bullet expand. The floating die dropped down on the down & out stroke & forced out most of the new expansion. After adjusting for more bell (and deeper) I was still loosing much of this expansion on the down stroke. I am using 95 gr. FMJ round nose bullets. Such small expands made it impossible for me to start a bullet straight by hand. Maybe this is ok if I use the seating die. Haven’t looked at that yet.

Question on bullet expanding. Just how slight do I need the expanding to be? Maybe I need to run a few through to break it in?
I will make some adjustments in attempt to seat them and see how it goes.
I am guessing I am about 1/8" or 1/32 " deep into the case with the expand. The bell seems to be close in dia. Maybe the beveled bullets using the seating die will work ok.

When I load revolver loads I am allowing the bullet more room to get started. These .380 cases are much smaller and not as easy to handle, leaving much less room for expanding in relation to 44 mag, 38 cal. etc

Overall, I think I need more time for set up. Trial and error in adjusting will hopefully solve the problem of the die being too tight against the case holder.

Thanks for all comments.

[Leftoverdj]

You are not "losing expansion on the downstroke". That's not physically possible.You may be feeling the case sticking around the expander. That's not unusual and a bit of lube inside the case mouths will take care of that until it wears in.

You are not spozed to be able to set your bullets upright down inside the case. The flare should be just enough not to shave the bullet as it seats. It's remotely possible that you are not getting that much, but Lee will mail you another expander for the asking.

[Unclenick]

D.N.Z.,

If you pull the expander out, you will see most of the length that inserts into the case is straight, then the flare appears as a taper just before you come to its square shoulder. The case must get up into this area to receive any belling or flare, otherwise it will only be expanded straight. I believe this is intended to mimic a Lyman style expander that allows you to seat a bullet fully upright and in better alignment with the seater when you get to that stage. The flare is then some additional widening to help avoid shaving lead and lube from cast bullets.

The expander should be sized to produce the maximum bell when the die is all the way down and touching the shell holder. If you bought one with an expander intended for a .38 long, it might not reach. To check, remove the expander from the die. Screw the aluminum funnel all the way back in. Use the depth stem on your caliper to measure from the mouth of the die to the shoulder of the aluminum funnel. Then measure the length of the expander's wide section, not including the part that expands the case. Subtract the second reading from the first, and write the result down.

Now put a case in the shell holder and measure the height of the case mouth from the top of the shell holder that the die bumps into. This measurement should be just slightly less than what you recorded above. If not, call Lee. Their customer service is very good.

Nick

[JDG]

I Took the expander plug out of all my lee dies, and polished the plug to a mirror finish. Now they work much smoother on the down stroke.

[Unclenick]

JDG,

If you want to get fancy, heat them to hot shower hot, and use a swab to keep them wet with MolyFusion oil for 20 minutes (until you see the faint gray coloring form), and re-warming as needed to maintain temperature. Then clean and dry. This give a micro-thin teflon-like coating to the metal. A fairly permanent dry lube.

You could also burnish molybdenum disufide powder into it, but this will be inside the case necks, and like any inside neck lube, has the potential to reduce pullet pull and start pressure. I think the first approach is better.

Nick

[MrApathy]

its normal for lee dies I have deluxe 9mm and 40sw and a 9mm speed die. the 9mm speed die uses another method and differs. how much belling are you using? I no longer have any of the belling dies adjusted to give much of a bell after sizing just enough to get the bullet started over the mouth but not able to move it much by hand though is easy to seat using the press. seating goes easy and no metal shavings but you get nice case to bullet tension. if I was using plated or lead would use a little more belling to accomidate the larger size and prevent saving.