removing lead from redhawk

[Mike Irwin]

I'm getting to the end of my chemistry knowledge, but I believe that lead oxide is far less readily absorbed into the body than lead acetate.

Ammonium acetate doesn't have nearly the toxcicity of lead acetate.

Lead oxide is highly toxic, but is not nearly as readily absorbed through the skin as lead acetate.


I wouldn't use a Foul Out if I had kid in the house, or medical conditions that could be aggravated.

In fact, I don't use a foul out at all. I shoot hard cast bullets, and haven't had to remove leading from my bores in years.

[Master Blaster]

Yes actually, I have only ever used the formula on two guns a blued taurus 94 revolver, and a stainless smith and wesson 686, It had no harmful effect on the guns. I was able to cure the leading problem in the taurus by never shooting remington bulk .22 ammo again.:barf:

In the 686 I fired 500 jacketed rounds at the suggestion of a more experienced shooter, and that smoothed up the rough spots so to speak rather nicely. I read long ago on this forum that somone had used this formula of paracetic acid on a 30+ yearold CZ barrel (dont recall the model) and they saw little red volcanos form in their barrel (pitting). It could have been that the pits were always there and the cleaning just exposed them, or it could be that there was some nickel content in the steel that reacted to the chemical. IIRC the gun was a surplus gun so I think it was the former, also I dont know how long the solution was left in the barrel.

[Unclenick]

Mike,

I think you're correct on the toxicity assessment. The ammonium acetate has no heavy metal of any kind in it. Our urine often contains some ammonia, and we eat vinegar, so the acetate radical isn't harmful in modest quantities. So this is one of those items that probably has a threshold below which, for all practical purposes, it isn't toxic at all. I don't know what that level is?

The lead compounds are, as you say, more dangerous in water-soluble form. Stomach acid will dissolve a certain amount of lead oxide, which is why eating white paint chips with lead oxide pigment will cause lead poisoning. I don't believe this is fast, however.

All in all, I don't think the Foulout is as hazardous as some of the other chemistry we use. The water soluble solutions wash off far more easily than contaminated petrochemicals as in bore cleaners and dirty gun oil. Plus, when you run it, the lead comes back to metallic form on the electrode and the solution is depleted of it. I just don't know how completely? Certainly the copper solution loses its color. I'll have to read the instructions again.

My general sense, having grown up around guns and got dirty playing in grass that a lot of people had stood on while shooting, that it actually isn't all that easy to get poisoned accidentally by these things. Nonetheless, around children and pregnant women, there's no point in taking an avoidable risk. I wouldn't let either into my basement where all this activity goes on, or around my garage workbench where casting is done.


Master,

There are a number of rifle break-in routines centered around using jacketed ammo. Usually something like shoot-and-clean every shot for 20, then every third shot for 30, then every fifth shot for 50, or some variation on this theme. I've always wondered why the gradual increase in shots between cleanings would do anything but reduce burnishing of the first spot the copper sticks to, but that is how the published routines go, with some variation in numbers. Sometimes it works and sometimes it makes no real difference.

I heard one opinion that button rifling biases the metal grain in the grooves in the direction the button is pushed through. If you don't chamber the barrel blank at the button source end, you wind up with the grain pointing toward your oncoming bullets and that no amount of burnishing will cure that. Certainly the carbide button didn't, and that's about as burnishing as you can get; which begs the question, why does additional burnishing do anything? My guess is the routines were developed by bench rest shooters firing cut rifled barrels, and it may all be of questionable value for other kinds. You just have to try it and see?

On the other hand, every gun I've had that didn't respond to break-in always responded beautifully to firelapping. I am talking primarily stock military Garand barrels here. I never saw the throat erosion gauge move forward by more than a thousandth of an inch from doing it, despite the fact the constriction under the asymmetrical contour ahead of the chamber would require about twice as many lapping loads to remove as are normally called for. My old DCM Garand originally required hours of Sweet's 7.62 before it gave up its copper. Just 5 rounds would leave it so fouled it would take 20 strokes each of three different brush-wrapped double patches covered in Iosso Bore Paste, followed by a dozen or more patches of Sweet's before the copper blue stopped appearing. After firelapping, it was cleaned by 10 strokes with Bore Paste and no Sweets required.

Nick


I asked the boy beneath the pines:
He said, "the Master's gone alone,
Herb picking somewhere on the mount,
Cloud-hidden, whereabouts, unknown."

Allan Watts translation of a zen poem

[brickeyee]

"...which is why eating white paint chips with lead oxide pigment will cause lead poisoning."

Lead oxide as a pigment (PbO) went away a very long time ago, with the exception of 'red lead' (Pb3O4) for corrosion protecting paint.
What continued in use was lead acetate (AKA 'sugar of lead').
It tastes sweet and is very available once eaten. The body basically grabs almost all of it.
It was used as a drying agent and gloss improver (same function as Japan drier using cobalt). This is why lead paint is mostly found on trim, though putting a coat in closets of gloss paint was a common thing.

[4V50 Gary]

No need to resort to chemicals or anything fancy. Buy some copper scouring pad, Chore Boy, from your grocery store. Be sure it's soap free. Wrap some around a worn brass brush and scrub your barrel. That cleans the lead out muy pronto.

[randleland]

Okay, you'll have to help me recall the name of the yellow lead removal cloth that's sold in gun stores. Anyway, when cut into patch sized pieces and run through the bore (after each trip to the range), these can help limit your leading. Maybe not as nicely as the toxic brews discussed above, but it certainly does help. -r

[randleland]

Ah! Birchwood Casey
"Lead Removal and Polishing Cloth"
-r

[BigSlick]

Instead of perfect a chosen method of removing lead (ChoreBoy works like gangbusters) why not eliminate the leading to begin with.

Leading comes from improperly sized bullets for your bore, or driving soft(er) bullets too fast. Flame cutting can be an issue, but that's easily solved for the most part with a gas check.

You can shoot lead bullets - LOTS of lead bullets without any noticeable leading. Slug your barrel, measure the slug and buy or size your bullets accordingly.

Shooting a bullet with too small of a diameter will lead more than one too large by .001

Check out the info at BearTooth, it's worth a read.

BigSlick