38 spl crimp ??

emmitt · October 15, 2012, 11:59 AM

Newbie here with a question. I am going to load some 38spl and I have Hornady 158gr SWC # 10408. The question is about the location of the crimp. To get the OAL of 1.455 listed in the Hornady load data I would have to crimp on the knurling. To get to where the knurling ends it would be alot shorter (aprox 1.430-1.435). I'm thinking just crimp on the knurling? Sorry if this has been asked before, just couldn't find it. First time loading lead bullets.

zxcvbob · October 15, 2012, 12:03 PM

I'm not familiar with those specifically, but there's usually a crimp groove on lead bullets, and that's where you crimp them.

spacecoast · October 15, 2012, 12:17 PM

Good question. Here is a picture of the bullet...

I haven't used these, but think I would probably make it about like the bullet shown on the left in this pic. Next to it you can see the customary crimp groove present in most LSWCs.

zxcvbob · October 15, 2012, 12:24 PM

I would crimp those lightly about 2/3 up the knurled part. They'll look sort of like the round in the picture spacecoast just posted.

You can crimp them pretty-much wherever you want.

emmitt · October 15, 2012, 12:40 PM

Thanks, that's what I was thinking just wanted to confirm it.

res45 · October 15, 2012, 02:15 PM

When I shot those I seated them flush with the case mouth and used a light roll crimp,there pretty much pure lead so over crimping can deform and undersize them. I didn't have much luck with them in my Ruger BH because they were undersized for the bore. I never could get those bullets to shoot without a couple in each six shot group to not tumble no matter if I used 38 or 357 Mag. cases.

Some people have excellent luck with the though and the Speer version of that bullet shot great in my Ruger. I cast all my own bullets now so I don't have to deal with those issues.

rodfac · October 15, 2012, 02:27 PM

emmit...I've loaded a lot of Hornady .32 and .357 dia. swagged bullets with the knurled lube, (as pic'd by Spacecoast), over the years and with great success. If there's one secret to using them it is this: crimp as little as possible to keep the bullet from moving forward in its case as the preceding rounds are fired in each cylinder full. You can check this by firing five rounds then checking the over all length of the remaining round, (the 6th as it were). If it hasn't slipped forward, increasing the OAL, then you're good to go.

Crimping that soft swagged lead alloy effectively 'resizes' them as they are forced forward opening the crimp in the case as the round fires. You can see this if you recover some from a suitable backstop.

That knurled bullet is very soft, but the impressed lube does its job well if velocities are kept below about 1000 fps. As to overall length, at the target velocities I'm using (700-900 fps), OAL is not critical and I generally leave a healthy margin to ensure they won't shift forward while testing and tie up the cylinder.

Best Regards, Rod

JimPage · October 15, 2012, 02:53 PM

I use a taper crimp. It's strong and avoids a lot of the problems associated with the rolled crimp.

jim8115 · October 15, 2012, 04:57 PM

I have loaded thousands of them @ 1.455 , crimping on the knurling. They dont need much crimp at all. I have also loaded them short, and crimped over the shoulder. Didnt see any difference, though i dont load them hot

JIM

TheTinMan · October 16, 2012, 10:29 AM

Those swaged Hornady bullets are very accurate out of several revolvers of mine over light loads of W231. Hornady manual recommends 800 fps for accuracy. 1,000 fps will lead up any gun IME.

Redding profile crimp does a great job with these since it effectively does a taper crimp first then adds a roll crimp. I have experimented with COAL short enough so the crimp was at the shoulder of the bullet and it worked fine. Just keep loads LIGHT if you try that.

Unfortunately, the lube on these bullets makes a mess of your dies and press. Despite the accuracy of these and their 148 grain HBWC, I hate working with them on my Hornady progressive press. Forget trying to prime on the press, and you'll have to stop an clean everything, dies included, after a couple hundred rounds.

dsb1829 · October 18, 2012, 07:50 PM

I have used the HDY swaged lead in my 44mag. I just used a light taper crimp. COL was to the hornady handbook. No issues with leading or accuracy. I would need to check my notes, but IIRC I was loading a light Clays load.

Hammerhead · October 18, 2012, 08:11 PM

yup,crimp into the knurling.
I use that bullet more than any other in my mid range, .357 loads. They are superbly accurate. I use my profile (roll) crimp die, but set it for a very light crimp which is more like a taper crimp. It doesn't take much to keep .38's from pulling forward under recoil unless you are shooting a very light gun.

P5 Guy · October 18, 2012, 08:19 PM

I called Hornady and the CS guy I talked to said the very lightly roll over the end of the knurled bearing surface.
Worked okay for me in my 44SPL. Even though they were shorter than the minimum called out in the load manual.

They are soft so DO NOT try to push them too fast. I use the minimum load called out for the bullet.

Hammerhead · October 19, 2012, 07:13 AM

900 fps is a good speed for the Hornadys, 1,000 fps if you give them a bath in liquid alox.

reloader28 · October 20, 2012, 09:22 AM

For a 38 you shouldnt have to crimp at all.
Just take the flare back out. If you do crimp, make sure it is very minimal.

**Unclenick** · October 20, 2012, 02:25 PM

You can basically crimp these wherever you want to. Consider that a .38 Special 148 grain wadcutter is loaded flush with the case mouth and is still accurate. You can certainly do what Hornady does and crimp over the end of the bearing surface, leaving only the nose sticking out. This may actually help accuracy because the higher pressure that will result in the reduced space will help bump the bullet up if the crimping squeezed it down any. You just have to adjust loads accordingly. If you are using HP38/231, start at 3 grains and limit yourself to about 3.5, as if it were a slightly heavy wadcutter. Bullseye, start at 2.7 and work up toward 3.1 grains.

emmitt · October 22, 2012, 11:26 AM

Tried out my first 38spl reloads this weekend, and they fired fine. Used a very light crimp on the knurling as was suggested. Thanks for the advice.

joneb · October 22, 2012, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Tried out my first 38spl reloads this weekend, and they fired fine.

That's good to here

My Hornady manual gives a COL for that bullet of 1.475". If you seat them farther out than that check to see if the cartridge will fit in the chamber.

October 15, 2012, 11:59 AM	#1
emmitt Junior Member Join Date: October 13, 2012 Posts: 3	38 spl crimp ?? Newbie here with a question. I am going to load some 38spl and I have Hornady 158gr SWC # 10408. The question is about the location of the crimp. To get the OAL of 1.455 listed in the Hornady load data I would have to crimp on the knurling. To get to where the knurling ends it would be alot shorter (aprox 1.430-1.435). I'm thinking just crimp on the knurling? Sorry if this has been asked before, just couldn't find it. First time loading lead bullets.

October 15, 2012, 12:03 PM	#2
zxcvbob Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 2007 Location: S.E. Minnesota Posts: 4,720	I'm not familiar with those specifically, but there's usually a crimp groove on lead bullets, and that's where you crimp them. __________________ "Everything they do is so dramatic and flamboyant. It just makes me want to set myself on fire!" —Lucille Bluth

October 15, 2012, 12:24 PM	#4
zxcvbob Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 2007 Location: S.E. Minnesota Posts: 4,720	I would crimp those lightly about 2/3 up the knurled part. They'll look sort of like the round in the picture spacecoast just posted. You can crimp them pretty-much wherever you want. __________________ "Everything they do is so dramatic and flamboyant. It just makes me want to set myself on fire!" —Lucille Bluth

October 15, 2012, 02:27 PM	#7
rodfac Senior Member Join Date: January 22, 2005 Location: Kentucky Posts: 3,623	emmit...I've loaded a lot of Hornady .32 and .357 dia. swagged bullets with the knurled lube, (as pic'd by Spacecoast), over the years and with great success. If there's one secret to using them it is this: crimp as little as possible to keep the bullet from moving forward in its case as the preceding rounds are fired in each cylinder full. You can check this by firing five rounds then checking the over all length of the remaining round, (the 6th as it were). If it hasn't slipped forward, increasing the OAL, then you're good to go. Crimping that soft swagged lead alloy effectively 'resizes' them as they are forced forward opening the crimp in the case as the round fires. You can see this if you recover some from a suitable backstop. That knurled bullet is very soft, but the impressed lube does its job well if velocities are kept below about 1000 fps. As to overall length, at the target velocities I'm using (700-900 fps), OAL is not critical and I generally leave a healthy margin to ensure they won't shift forward while testing and tie up the cylinder. Best Regards, Rod __________________ Cherish our flag, honor it, defend it in word and deed, or get the hell out. Our Bill of Rights has been paid for by heros in uniform and shall not be diluted by misguided governmental social experiments. We owe this to our children, anything less is cowardice. USAF FAC, 5th Spl Forces, Vietnam Vet '69-'73.

October 15, 2012, 02:53 PM	#8
JimPage Senior Member Join Date: February 21, 2010 Location: Rome, NY Posts: 941	I use a taper crimp. It's strong and avoids a lot of the problems associated with the rolled crimp. __________________ Jim Page Cogito, ergo armatum sum

October 15, 2012, 12:17 PM	#3
spacecoast Senior Member Join Date: October 14, 2009 Location: Sunshine and Keystone States Posts: 4,461	Good question. Here is a picture of the bullet... I haven't used these, but think I would probably make it about like the bullet shown on the left in this pic. Next to it you can see the customary crimp groove present in most LSWCs.

October 15, 2012, 12:40 PM	#5
emmitt Junior Member Join Date: October 13, 2012 Posts: 3	Thanks, that's what I was thinking just wanted to confirm it.

October 15, 2012, 02:15 PM	#6
res45 Senior Member Join Date: September 15, 2007 Location: NC Posts: 753	When I shot those I seated them flush with the case mouth and used a light roll crimp,there pretty much pure lead so over crimping can deform and undersize them. I didn't have much luck with them in my Ruger BH because they were undersized for the bore. I never could get those bullets to shoot without a couple in each six shot group to not tumble no matter if I used 38 or 357 Mag. cases. Some people have excellent luck with the though and the Speer version of that bullet shot great in my Ruger. I cast all my own bullets now so I don't have to deal with those issues.

October 15, 2012, 04:57 PM	#9
jim8115 Senior Member Join Date: July 23, 2011 Location: Arkansas Posts: 229	I have loaded thousands of them @ 1.455 , crimping on the knurling. They dont need much crimp at all. I have also loaded them short, and crimped over the shoulder. Didnt see any difference, though i dont load them hot JIM

October 16, 2012, 10:29 AM	#10
TheTinMan Senior Member Join Date: December 8, 2008 Posts: 102	Those swaged Hornady bullets are very accurate out of several revolvers of mine over light loads of W231. Hornady manual recommends 800 fps for accuracy. 1,000 fps will lead up any gun IME. Redding profile crimp does a great job with these since it effectively does a taper crimp first then adds a roll crimp. I have experimented with COAL short enough so the crimp was at the shoulder of the bullet and it worked fine. Just keep loads LIGHT if you try that. Unfortunately, the lube on these bullets makes a mess of your dies and press. Despite the accuracy of these and their 148 grain HBWC, I hate working with them on my Hornady progressive press. Forget trying to prime on the press, and you'll have to stop an clean everything, dies included, after a couple hundred rounds.

October 18, 2012, 07:50 PM	#11
dsb1829 Member Join Date: March 28, 2011 Posts: 46	I have used the HDY swaged lead in my 44mag. I just used a light taper crimp. COL was to the hornady handbook. No issues with leading or accuracy. I would need to check my notes, but IIRC I was loading a light Clays load.

October 18, 2012, 08:11 PM	#12
Hammerhead Senior Member Join Date: May 31, 2004 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,432	yup,crimp into the knurling. I use that bullet more than any other in my mid range, .357 loads. They are superbly accurate. I use my profile (roll) crimp die, but set it for a very light crimp which is more like a taper crimp. It doesn't take much to keep .38's from pulling forward under recoil unless you are shooting a very light gun.

October 18, 2012, 08:19 PM	#13
P5 Guy Senior Member Join Date: December 1, 2005 Location: Tampa Bay Posts: 1,804	44 not 38 I called Hornady and the CS guy I talked to said the very lightly roll over the end of the knurled bearing surface. Worked okay for me in my 44SPL. Even though they were shorter than the minimum called out in the load manual. They are soft so DO NOT try to push them too fast. I use the minimum load called out for the bullet.

October 19, 2012, 07:13 AM	#14
Hammerhead Senior Member Join Date: May 31, 2004 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,432	900 fps is a good speed for the Hornadys, 1,000 fps if you give them a bath in liquid alox.

October 20, 2012, 09:22 AM	#15
reloader28 Senior Member Join Date: October 13, 2009 Location: nw wyoming Posts: 1,061	For a 38 you shouldnt have to crimp at all. Just take the flare back out. If you do crimp, make sure it is very minimal.

October 20, 2012, 02:25 PM	#16
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,061	You can basically crimp these wherever you want to. Consider that a .38 Special 148 grain wadcutter is loaded flush with the case mouth and is still accurate. You can certainly do what Hornady does and crimp over the end of the bearing surface, leaving only the nose sticking out. This may actually help accuracy because the higher pressure that will result in the reduced space will help bump the bullet up if the crimping squeezed it down any. You just have to adjust loads accordingly. If you are using HP38/231, start at 3 grains and limit yourself to about 3.5, as if it were a slightly heavy wadcutter. Bullseye, start at 2.7 and work up toward 3.1 grains. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

October 22, 2012, 11:26 AM	#17
emmitt Junior Member Join Date: October 13, 2012 Posts: 3	Tried out my first 38spl reloads this weekend, and they fired fine. Used a very light crimp on the knurling as was suggested. Thanks for the advice.