TacStar extension broke :(

Anticonn · June 20, 2009, 05:24 PM

So I took out my new Nova for the first time this afternoon, with a TacStar extension freshly installed that I ordered off Midway. First magazine of 2.75" #8 birdshot, on the 4th round the tube popped out of the knuckle from recoil.

I cleared the chamber and mag, checked that the knuckle was securely screwed in place, and loosened it up to take a look. The tube is simply press-fit into the knuckle, and not very well it would seem (see picture). Reassembling it by hand was not difficult, I put it back together and loaded the magazine with 4 rounds instead of the previous 7, and it popped out on the first shot. I set the shotgun down for the day and squeezed off a few 357 rounds to ease my frustration.

Is this common, or what the hell? I expect a mag extension to stay in one piece and not send the spring down range, with ANY load, especially birdshot.

paknheat · June 20, 2009, 05:32 PM

dude that sucks, I have heard that the Tac-Star stuff is hit and miss as far as quality goes. I believe i would send it back to Midway and exchange it for one made by Scattergun Tech.

Anticonn · June 20, 2009, 05:37 PM

Midway has been great to me, I want to make that clear. This is in now way their fault, and I expect the same quality service they've always delivered in returning this item.

I'm hoping a refund is a possible as I don't think I can really trust a TacStar replacement on its own for my defensive shotgun. I'm wondering however, if a refund isn't possible here, would a mag clamp get the job done? If 2.75" birdshot knocked it out, I can't imagine what the 3.5" 00b will do to it.

paknheat · June 20, 2009, 05:46 PM

I have used Tac-Star mag clamps before, they just don't hold up on a shot gun. A couple of shots and they fall apart. They work real good for making hog-lights for compound bows .Midway is real solid in the customer service dept. though. I would be in touch with them pronto to see about getting a replacement. I have sent things back to them before, and they even squared me on the shipping charges.

Anticonn · June 20, 2009, 05:51 PM

I was 10 minutes late calling them to discuss this, so I sent off an email. Thanks.

I really assumed this would be a one-piece unit, any advice on where to look for a more solid extension? Choate's only listed Nova application is a 4 shot extension, I have an 18.5" barrel so that's a no-go.

rantingredneck · June 20, 2009, 06:13 PM

I have owned 2 tacstar extensions for 870's. One of the two did exactly what your pictures depict. Even with a Remington Military clamp holding everything in place. It would slowly walk and eventually pop free. Trashed it, sold the other and now I have only Remington factory extensions.

Were I in your shoes I would be looking at Benelli's factory offerings, Choate (call, they may have some not listed on their website), or Nordic Components. .

paknheat · June 20, 2009, 06:14 PM

Look at Scattergun Technologies mag tube extentions, and i do believe Midway carries them.

Anticonn · June 20, 2009, 06:27 PM

It just occured to me I have a Haas CNC lathe at work, and I'm pretty handy with it, if I can't find a suitable replacement steel bar stock is pretty cheap...

Dfariswheel · June 20, 2009, 06:33 PM

Choate does make an extension for the 18" barrel Nova.

http://www.riflestock.com/catalog_pa...7&NewProduct=0

From the picture they make it in 18", 20" and 22" models.
Simply email Choate and ask. Members of the family get back to you quick.

A smart shotgunner ALWAYS uses a clamp on an extension.

Anticonn · June 20, 2009, 06:58 PM

Quote:

A smart shotgunner ALWAYS uses a clamp on an extension.

A smart shotgunner I am not, this is my first shotgun, and it's been years since I shot one before today.

And as a matter of aesthetics, I'd much prefer a matte black extension to match the gun, the Choate units look... shiny. Rattlecan could fix that though.

Since we're on the subject, suggestions for a clamp (that won't interfere w/ the front elevated sight)? I don't need a rail or light mount.

colostomyclown · June 20, 2009, 07:01 PM

Tacstar DOES make some quality stuff, especially their sidesaddle, but imo their extension is crap. Go with Scattergun Tech, Choate or Nordic. I personally can attest to the quality of Choate. Great customer service too.

MAX100 · June 20, 2009, 07:29 PM

I have had the same thing happen with a Choate tube extension. The tube wasn't silver soldered very well in the base.

Your choices are:

Send it back for an exchange or money back

You can use JB Weld to repair it and it will hold it very well. Rough the inside on the base and the part of the tube that fits in the base. Then degrease & apply the JB Weld and clean up the epoxy that gets squeezed out. Wait 24 hours after applying then put it in the oven on 200 degrees for an hour and leave it until it cools.

The JB Weld will hold it & last forever.

GC

MrCleanOK · June 21, 2009, 01:04 AM

I have a Choate extension on my Remington and haven't had any trouble with it. If they make a unit that will work with your Nova, I wouldn't hesitate to use it.

StuntManMike · June 21, 2009, 07:30 AM

The same thing happened to me. I thought it was the weight of the LMS1202 combined with the lack of a mag clamp that did it until I read this thread. If a mag clamp can't keep it together it is not really any more than a paper weight.

paknheat · June 21, 2009, 08:35 AM

That's an excellent sugestion Max100. A quick fix that will hold up.

Bill DeShivs · June 21, 2009, 01:00 PM

JB Weld (or any glue) is a very poor substitute for hard soldering.
JB Weld is simply epoxy with metal shavings.

MAX100 · June 21, 2009, 04:10 PM

Quote:

JB Weld (or any glue) is a very poor substitute for hard soldering.
JB Weld is simply epoxy with metal shavings.

Follow the direction I posted above using JB Weld and then see if you are able to get the tube out of the base without the use of extreme heat.

I didn't suggest silver solder because most don't have experience doing it. Also the tube extension will have to be refinished after soldering. JB Weld is the way to go and it will hold up. The JB Weld can be made even stronger be adding some more fine steel shavings to the mix.

GC

Dfariswheel · June 21, 2009, 06:25 PM

Since we're on the subject, suggestions for a clamp (that won't interfere w/ the front elevated sight)? I don't need a rail or light mount.

I don't know of any barrel clamp that interferes with the front sight.
Most are open on the top and will easily clear any standard front sight even if you move the clamp down around the muzzle.

The Choate comes as a complete kit with the extension, spring, heavy-duty magazine follower, and a clamp with swivels.
The color is actually either a parkerized finish or a satin black sulfide finish.
In over 30 years of installation, I've only seen a couple of defective Choate extensions.

Anticonn · June 21, 2009, 09:44 PM

Thanks for the info Dfariswheel, has me wishing I went with Choate in the first place, but I was ordering some other stuff off Midway at the same time, so.... it was easy to just get this one. And I mean really, it's a threaded tube! How hard can it be? lol

I got a call from Midway this morning, they're sending me a new TacStar unit free of charge, and don't require the old one as a return (I included the above picture with my email). I have to say Midway never ceases to impress me, and just for giggles, since they took such good care of me, I ordered a Limbsaver while on the phone.

I'm definitely not opposed to the JBWeld suggestion, we use a variety of epoxies in some pretty extreme conditions at work, up to 300° under frictional loading. For an application like this I can see no reason it would fail to perform. Plus we have the proper eqipment to cure this stuff, computer controlled convection ovens and the like. I can make that lil bastard stick if it really comes down to it, what I'd do is machine a 0.010" or so groove into the tube halfway up the portion that presses in to hold the adhesive (or go 0.020 deep into the knuckle, I'll have the check the wall thickness), it wouldn't ever come back out with some high strength epoxy (e.g. JB Weld). As a last resort, I've got a welder

Bill DeShivs · June 22, 2009, 02:17 AM

I fail to comprehend how adding steel shavings could increase the bond strength of any glue.
Care to enlighten me on how that works?

MAX100 · June 22, 2009, 03:18 AM

Quote:

I fail to comprehend how adding steel shavings could increase the bond strength of any glue. Care to enlighten me on how that works?

You insinuated JB Weld wouldn't work well for this particular application and I know from experience it will.

I didn't say anything about bond strength those are your words. The metal shavings will make it harder and increase tensile strength.

GC

cedjunior · June 22, 2009, 04:40 PM

Quote:

I fail to comprehend how adding steel shavings could increase the bond strength of any glue.
Care to enlighten me on how that works?

The same way fiberglass is used in fiberglass reinforced plastics.

Csspecs · June 22, 2009, 05:24 PM

Seems that if both parts are steel it could be spot welded. It seems silly that they would not weld it or otherwise pin it in place.

Anticonn · June 22, 2009, 06:30 PM

Quote:

I fail to comprehend how adding steel shavings could increase the bond strength of any glue.
Care to enlighten me on how that works?

Well, here's how I understand the principle of JB Weld (could be wrong, but what the hell). One wants JBWeld or any other epoxy, and I imagine most adhesives, to bond to a rough surface instead of a smooth one, to give it something to "grab" onto. By adding small particles of metal to the mix, they've allowed the epoxy to maintain a higher strength across a larger gap.

Think of the epoxy itself as a smooth surface, so the thicker the epoxy layer, the weaker it gets in the middle, because it can't grab onto itself as well as something rough. Adding the metal shavings gives it something rough to bond to in between the surfaces you're trying to stick together.

So it doesn't increase its bond strength, per se, just increases its ability to hold in larger gaps.

Anticonn · June 22, 2009, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Seems that if both parts are steel it could be spot welded. It seems silly that they would not weld it or otherwise pin it in place.

Since I'll have two of these soon enough, I'm going to go ahead and just machine the annular groove I mentioned above into the original unit, fill it with LocTite 680 Large Gap and send TacStar a picture of how they should be doing it

As long as it has to be two pieces, there's no reason to not have some sort of adhesive in there, LocTite and others make products specifically for this.

June 20, 2009, 05:37 PM	#3
Anticonn Senior Member Join Date: June 14, 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 174	Midway has been great to me, I want to make that clear. This is in now way their fault, and I expect the same quality service they've always delivered in returning this item. I'm hoping a refund is a possible as I don't think I can really trust a TacStar replacement on its own for my defensive shotgun. I'm wondering however, if a refund isn't possible here, would a mag clamp get the job done? If 2.75" birdshot knocked it out, I can't imagine what the 3.5" 00b will do to it. __________________ "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin, 1759

June 20, 2009, 05:51 PM	#5
Anticonn Senior Member Join Date: June 14, 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 174	I was 10 minutes late calling them to discuss this, so I sent off an email. Thanks. I really assumed this would be a one-piece unit, any advice on where to look for a more solid extension? Choate's only listed Nova application is a 4 shot extension, I have an 18.5" barrel so that's a no-go. __________________ "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin, 1759

June 20, 2009, 06:13 PM	#6
rantingredneck Senior Member Join Date: January 12, 2007 Location: North Carolina Posts: 4,728	I have owned 2 tacstar extensions for 870's. One of the two did exactly what your pictures depict. Even with a Remington Military clamp holding everything in place. It would slowly walk and eventually pop free. Trashed it, sold the other and now I have only Remington factory extensions. Were I in your shoes I would be looking at Benelli's factory offerings, Choate (call, they may have some not listed on their website), or Nordic Components. . __________________ NRA Member NC Hunter's Education Instructor PCCA Member (What's PCCA you ask? <- Check the link)

June 20, 2009, 07:29 PM	#12
MAX100 Senior Member Join Date: February 28, 2008 Location: SC- at the GUN-CONNECTION Posts: 359	I have had the same thing happen with a Choate tube extension. The tube wasn't silver soldered very well in the base. Your choices are: Send it back for an exchange or money back You can use JB Weld to repair it and it will hold it very well. Rough the inside on the base and the part of the tube that fits in the base. Then degrease & apply the JB Weld and clean up the epoxy that gets squeezed out. Wait 24 hours after applying then put it in the oven on 200 degrees for an hour and leave it until it cools. The JB Weld will hold it & last forever. GC __________________ ==GUN CONNECTION== [email protected]

June 21, 2009, 01:00 PM	#16
Bill DeShivs Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 10,981	JB Weld (or any glue) is a very poor substitute for hard soldering. JB Weld is simply epoxy with metal shavings. __________________ Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler www.billdeshivs.com

June 20, 2009, 05:32 PM	#2
paknheat Senior Member Join Date: October 17, 2006 Location: East Texas Posts: 334	dude that sucks, I have heard that the Tac-Star stuff is hit and miss as far as quality goes. I believe i would send it back to Midway and exchange it for one made by Scattergun Tech.

June 20, 2009, 05:46 PM	#4
paknheat Senior Member Join Date: October 17, 2006 Location: East Texas Posts: 334	I have used Tac-Star mag clamps before, they just don't hold up on a shot gun. A couple of shots and they fall apart. They work real good for making hog-lights for compound bows .Midway is real solid in the customer service dept. though. I would be in touch with them pronto to see about getting a replacement. I have sent things back to them before, and they even squared me on the shipping charges.

June 20, 2009, 06:14 PM	#7
paknheat Senior Member Join Date: October 17, 2006 Location: East Texas Posts: 334	Look at Scattergun Technologies mag tube extentions, and i do believe Midway carries them.

June 20, 2009, 06:27 PM	#8
Anticonn Senior Member Join Date: June 14, 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 174	It just occured to me I have a Haas CNC lathe at work, and I'm pretty handy with it, if I can't find a suitable replacement steel bar stock is pretty cheap... __________________ "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin, 1759

June 20, 2009, 06:33 PM	#9
Dfariswheel Senior Member Join Date: May 4, 2001 Posts: 7,478	Choate does make an extension for the 18" barrel Nova. http://www.riflestock.com/catalog_pa...7&NewProduct=0 From the picture they make it in 18", 20" and 22" models. Simply email Choate and ask. Members of the family get back to you quick. A smart shotgunner ALWAYS uses a clamp on an extension.

June 20, 2009, 07:01 PM	#11
colostomyclown Senior Member Join Date: February 22, 2009 Posts: 613	Tacstar DOES make some quality stuff, especially their sidesaddle, but imo their extension is crap. Go with Scattergun Tech, Choate or Nordic. I personally can attest to the quality of Choate. Great customer service too.

June 21, 2009, 01:04 AM	#13
MrCleanOK Member Join Date: October 18, 2007 Posts: 30	I have a Choate extension on my Remington and haven't had any trouble with it. If they make a unit that will work with your Nova, I wouldn't hesitate to use it.

June 21, 2009, 07:30 AM	#14
StuntManMike Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 2007 Posts: 248	The same thing happened to me. I thought it was the weight of the LMS1202 combined with the lack of a mag clamp that did it until I read this thread. If a mag clamp can't keep it together it is not really any more than a paper weight.

June 21, 2009, 08:35 AM	#15
paknheat Senior Member Join Date: October 17, 2006 Location: East Texas Posts: 334	That's an excellent sugestion Max100. A quick fix that will hold up.

June 21, 2009, 06:25 PM	#18
Dfariswheel Senior Member Join Date: May 4, 2001 Posts: 7,478	Since we're on the subject, suggestions for a clamp (that won't interfere w/ the front elevated sight)? I don't need a rail or light mount. I don't know of any barrel clamp that interferes with the front sight. Most are open on the top and will easily clear any standard front sight even if you move the clamp down around the muzzle. The Choate comes as a complete kit with the extension, spring, heavy-duty magazine follower, and a clamp with swivels. The color is actually either a parkerized finish or a satin black sulfide finish. In over 30 years of installation, I've only seen a couple of defective Choate extensions.

June 21, 2009, 09:44 PM	#19
Anticonn Senior Member Join Date: June 14, 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 174	Thanks for the info Dfariswheel, has me wishing I went with Choate in the first place, but I was ordering some other stuff off Midway at the same time, so.... it was easy to just get this one. And I mean really, it's a threaded tube! How hard can it be? lol I got a call from Midway this morning, they're sending me a new TacStar unit free of charge, and don't require the old one as a return (I included the above picture with my email). I have to say Midway never ceases to impress me, and just for giggles, since they took such good care of me, I ordered a Limbsaver while on the phone. I'm definitely not opposed to the JBWeld suggestion, we use a variety of epoxies in some pretty extreme conditions at work, up to 300° under frictional loading. For an application like this I can see no reason it would fail to perform. Plus we have the proper eqipment to cure this stuff, computer controlled convection ovens and the like. I can make that lil bastard stick if it really comes down to it, what I'd do is machine a 0.010" or so groove into the tube halfway up the portion that presses in to hold the adhesive (or go 0.020 deep into the knuckle, I'll have the check the wall thickness), it wouldn't ever come back out with some high strength epoxy (e.g. JB Weld). As a last resort, I've got a welder __________________ "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin, 1759 Last edited by Anticonn; June 21, 2009 at 10:09 PM.

June 22, 2009, 02:17 AM	#20
Bill DeShivs Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 10,981	I fail to comprehend how adding steel shavings could increase the bond strength of any glue. Care to enlighten me on how that works? __________________ Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler www.billdeshivs.com

June 22, 2009, 05:24 PM	#23
Csspecs Senior Member Join Date: December 21, 2005 Posts: 1,111	Seems that if both parts are steel it could be spot welded. It seems silly that they would not weld it or otherwise pin it in place.