338 Lapua mags?

[HiBC]

I'm doing a little "in the head engineering" on a project I'm likely to do.

From decades ago,I have a sporterized already P-14 Enfield action.I'm thinking of building a 338 Lapua on it.

I want to do it as economically as possible,with the least amount of effort to get a good tool.

Lets call the receiver free.I found a drop belly,original Enfield guard type Bell and Carlson stock for $135.An Obermeyer cut rifled barrel will be under $300 .I'm thinking 28 in,Someplace around a Sendero to light Palma contour.I will put a serious brake on it(Open to recommendation)Update,a knowledgable gentleman here suggested a heavy straight taper barrel.Enfield tenon threads are 1.125OD.BBl contours with 1.2 shank OD only give me .037 for a shoulder per side.Gotta have 1.250.I guess the AMU contour best.7 lbs!! But flutes are outside budget.Muzzle is .900.That will take the .750x24 threads on the Armalite brake quite well.Big and expensive!! But it sure works good.
I'm going to leave it cock on closing and the military trigger is really pretty good.
I have a couple of original,non straightened trigger guards available.

I'm thinking I will glass a steel,maybe aluminum. bedding plate in the stock that will start at the back of the recoil lug and carry recoil back to the rear face of the mag well.I'll cut a window through it for a mag box.

I have no enthusiasm for modding the receiver rails ,etc for the original double stack feed.

I intend to set it up to take a single stack commercially available .338 Lapua detatchable mag.

I'm thinking I can keep all the work/mods in the trigger guard,stock,and bed block.No receiver Bubba factor.

Now,to talk mags,I have to make a choice.All of them are roughly $100 each,+ or -.So cost is not the factor.

There is the Armalite AR-30.Nice big lug on the back.The Barrett single stack appears to use the same lug in the pix.Does anyone know if the AR/Barrett mags are interchangeable?That may matter if I want to buy another later.*Update*,ad had bogus pic of the AR mag representing a Barrett mag.Barrett is double stack,not the choice for center feed.Barrett is out.

The other system is Accuracy International/Savage.They interchange.From pix,they have a little cheaper look ,the lug is formed out like an M-1 Carbine mag...

For a scope,I have a Leupold 4.5 to 14 ,50 mm obj,30 mm tube Mil dot longrange I can "borrow" from my M-70 Laredo.

So I can build this for about $650. .$135 stock,The first $100 mag,$<300 for Obermeyer cut rifled bbl,$50 rent for reamer/headspace gage ,and that leaves about $75 for some accraglass and scope blocks.

OK,forgot the brake....I've got some 17-4 PH steel chunks,maybe I'll make one.,or its another $100 or so.

Still,all up,pretty cheap for .338 Lapua.

I wrote all this mostly for advice on which magazine to go with.

So its Accuracy International/Savage vs Armalite.I'll probably go Armalite

[T. O'Heir]

Hi. Longest Lapua OAL is 3.600"(heaviest bullet on Hodgdon's site). .303 Brit is 3.075". The Lapua case alone is 2.724" long. 2.222" for the Brit.
Doubt the .338 Lapua will fit the receiver, period, but you will have to radically alter the mag well. And open the bolt face to accommodate the 48 thou diameter difference and the rimmed to rimless extraction.
And your space bar doesn't work.

[HiBC]

T O'
Thanks for your response.It all seems quite discouraging,rather "can't do"
And,like other examples of your responses,its faulty.

I have no intent to use the original mag box,clearly stated.The length of the .303 mag box is irrelevant.

This receiver was quite popular among the British riflemakers for African big game rifles.It is for all practical purposes identical to the P-17 Enfield receiver.

That it will not handle a 3.6 cartridge length would be shocking news for all the folks who have .375 H+H rifles built on this action.

I personally have been in on the build of 4 rifles/barreled actions in .416 Rem mag,which is the same length.

The P-14,built for the rimmed .303 already has a bolt face/extractor set up for .540 dia.That is an advantage,in small degree,over the .473 ctg rim dia for the 30-06.Yes,it will have to be opened a bit,but it has been successfully done many times.

On my space bar,you have mentioned it multiple times.I read it.Message received!!.Thank you for sharing.I reject it.I will continue to do it my way.

There are a lot of old eyes that read these posts,and,IMO,my spacing makes it easier to read.My apologies for getting your speedos knotted up.

[Clark]

I have a 338L barrel and and action that is long enough, but no compunction to put them together.

The 338 Win Mag, that fits in a 3.34" standard action and magazine, can get so close to the same velocity with handloads, that there is no noticeable improvement.

And i have a number of 338WM rifles already.

The arguments go something like this, "I want a 338L so I can shoot to 2000 yards."

The rebuttals go something like this, "The 338WM has the same velocity out to 1800 yards that the 338L has at 2000y, but you can't hit anything past 600 yards."

[HiBC]

Thanks for the encouragement.

I've fired the .338 Lapua,and 50 BMG rifles.I'm not building it for hunting.I use my .257 AI mostly,but lately I like my 1903A4 clone.

I do agree,taking shots at game animals at ridiculous ranges does not suit my code.

I want a 338 Lapua simply for fun.I like to shoot it.I don't feel a need to justify it.I have the chrono and ballistic software.Well aquainted.I suggest you submit a suggestion to the US Military about all the money they could save dumping their Lapuas and just reworking standard sniper rifles to .338 Win...And,actually,thats only a little better than the 338-06,huh?
Clark,as often as you have described handloading practices that I consider reckless and irresponsible,I've held back getting negative on you.Its what you do.
Envisioning a rifle and building it is what I do.I'm not too bad at it.
If Mr Oheir believes a Lapua can't be put in a P-14,its OK.I believe he can't,and won't.I can,and I will.

Can't hit at past 600?Speak for yourself.I have access to just under 4 sections of ranch ,plus the Pawnee,plus another 60,000 acre ranch.On one,I have a 1090 yd spot,and I've kept 5 shots on a paper plate size bull more than once with my M-70 Laredo.Its not anything special.

Thanks anyway...now,two responses to discourage me,parried.No useful information.
Does anyone know anything about .338 Lapua magazines?

[HiBC]

Picked one.Armalite mag ordered.
Barrel next.

[tobnpr]

Too late, but:

http://wyattsoutdoor.com/product_inf...products_id/49

It's a proprietary based on their own bottom metal, so no idea how design compares to the Armalite or compatibility with the mod you have planned.

[HiBC]

Thank you!!That is exactly the sort of info I posted for.

I think for my purpose,about any quality single stack would work.

I have an idea in my head about a simple steel bedding block that I can carve out of a chunk of 5 inch channel iron about 1 1/2 in long.

With my keyboard I can give an idea what it will look like,upside down

i____l but,its not to scale,of course.The short vertical leg ,represented by the "i" wlii be miiled down and thinned to about .125 or .140 thick,and about 5/16 height.When inverted,the vertical face on the far left will be the steel faced recoil lug surface.

Inverted,the _____surface will be milled flat.It will be the flat floor the bottom of the receiver will rest on.It will also blank off and re-enforce the entire mag well opening when epoxied into the stock.A window will be milled into it,the profile of the magazine box,to allow it to protrude through.

the far right vertical wall,represented by the "l" when inverted,will hang down and bed against the rear vertical face of the stock's mag well.This will serve to distribute recoil over a larger surface in the stock,and will also give me some steel vertical real estate to work with for the magazine and its lug for the catch.On the Armalite its a large solid lug that will serve as a key or tenon.

As this piece will be plain old steel,once I have the mag and can look closer,I have the option to weld another vertical surface ,perhaps a small channel shape,to provide the geometry to represent the front vertical surface of the mag well behind the stocks recoil lug area.Done right,it will re-enforce the stock behind the recoil lug.

Glassed in,I will have a steel bed block/mag well.I will glass a steel pillar in the stock under the tang at the rear guard screw.

Mag catch latch will be incorporated to the guard .I can do a little welding or silver solder if necessary.
At this point,its a few parts and a cartoon in my head.

I found some 300 gr Nosler comps with a .800 BC.And some Norma brass.Those will get me started.I'll order them when I'm done here.
Forster benchrest dies,though I'm debating a Wilson chamber type seating die.

I still have to ask Mr Obermeyer if he will make me a barrel.

Oh,and thanks to the comments that tell me I can't or shouldn't do it.They put a little gleam in my eye,a smile on my face,spring in my step!!

I'm looking forward to some range time,my $750(Bubbafied Milsurp) rifle against a $3000 rifle.I don't have to win.As long as each 1/4 MOA costs them at least $1000 ,I showed up.

[tobnpr]

Not familiar with the action, but you got me curious so I google'd some pics.

Is there enough room between the back of the magwell and the trigger to do what you're planning, looks like real estate clearance there is pretty minimal?



Flat bottom action certainly makes it easier than milling a V-block.

[HiBC]

I will have to remove the MTL thickness of my steel from the back face of the mag well in the stock.Maybe .120.Regarding the real estate the trigger requires,The Bridgeport Mill will take care of it!!In vertical terms ,the forward part of the trigger does not need much..a !/2 in by 1/2 in window or pocket on the rear face of my steel covers it.I have a lot of real estate below the sear part of the trigger behind the mag box.


In truth,I have only eyeballed it,held a tape measure to it,and formed a cartoon in my mind .I have not even made a crayon on napkin sketch.

I like your pic!!And at least you have put my words into an idea for yourself.
The outside dim of the mag box you show scales 3.812.The rear stroke of the bolt is not a problem,if I have the mtl thickness of a mag,the bolt will pick up a cartridge.From the rear edge of the mag box to the rear face of the recoil lug is 4.75,per my scale.
FWIW,about 25 yrs ago the sight ears were removed and the rear bridge contoured.
The vertical webs on 5 in channel are pretty thick,I think if I play with wall thickness and the mill it will work.If I have to cut completelt through the rear web on the channel,the face below the trigger,I do have the luxury of being able to weld a piece on the back ..where the key/mag lug will ride,below the trigger.It will work.Matter of fact,I may plan on that fabrication and incorporate the mag catch.


My magazine should arrive Tues.I need it for numbers to begin a sketch.

100 cy 300 gr Nosler Custom Comps and 40 Norma cases shipped.

Brother made a good point:I'm thinking about the AR-30 338 L muzzle brake available from Armalite.That thing reduces recoil to approx. 308 level.The stock will not get hammered.However,I do like my idea of the bed block.,and I have to hang the mag box somehow.
If a chunk of 5 in channel turns out not to be ideal,I have a plan "B".I have access to a wonderful old Do-All bandsaw with low range.An old junkmold base plate is 1 3/8 to 1 7/8 thick,blanchard ground,and made of steels like P-20 and 4140.I can saw out just what I need.The chunk of channel just came into the cartoon in my head.
Sometimes its not about thinking harder.Its more relax,and watch what forms.

[HiBC]

A little update.TheArmalite mag may not have been the best choice.Over the mag box,excluding lug,its 3.910.

I could probably make it work,but I would have to take a little steel from the receiver below the feed ramp.They do stuff like that stuffing a .375 H+H in a Mauser....but that is the receiver steel behind the lower bolt locking lug.I'd rather leave it alone.

In the Brownell's catalogue,they show magazines by Accurate Mag.They make 5 shot single stack .338 Lapua mags in 3 different lengths for various chassis and rifles.An e-mail from a tech engineer today tells me those mag length numbers are over the outside of the box.I can choose 3.715 or 3.775.I can make one of those work in the space I have.

A friend has an Armalite.He is about to have another mag.

Oh well,somebody has to come up with the answers!The good news,these mags will work great.

I have also talked myself into a Kreiger barrel.

[HiBC]

Update,the "Accurate Magazine" mag has been received from Brownells.Looks good!!
The 3.775 outside dim is much more friendly to my real estate situation than the longer Armalite mag.
SAAMI max loaded round length for .338 Lapua is 93.5 mm.That is about 3.68.
This mag has sufficient length to easily handle that.
Accurate does make a 3.715 mag.IMO,that one could probably be used with a P-14 without taking any steel off the receiver.I willhave to make a very minor alteration.
The drawback to that mag is it's inside dim would be approx. .050 shorter than the longest SAAMI ammo.Maybe not a big deal for a handloader,but the standard chambering reamers willput the leadein the same place,regardless.
SO,likely you would get .050 more jump to the rifling with the 3.715 mag.
And,I now have a receiver truing mandrel for a p-14/p-17.
Thanks to member NRFJR,the outside dim on the Savage/Accuracy INTL system is 3.854.

Those mags cost a little more,and they would require about .075 more length than the mag I have be removed from the feed ramp area of the receiver to clear bullet tips.

I'm having to learn the hard way,but hopefully this info may help someone else.

And,don't be surprised if your local old crotchety gunsmith has an old P-14 or P-17 receiver stashed under a bench for 25 yrs.He may figure he can afford to get rid of it.
Link to the muzzle brake I have chosen.It uses a lock nut,apparently,with 3/4 24 threads.So, thay may indicate a .750 muzzle dia would be fine.

http://www.armalite.com/ItemForm.asp...b-e75101ddd86a

I'm thinking a straight taper target #19 Hunter Kreiger CM bbl with the 1 in 9.35 twist