458/black powder

bigted1956 · August 5, 2009, 01:26 PM

hello all,
i know this is strange and prolly outta place but here goes anyway.

i have a cz 550 safari in 458 win mag. after recovery from a torn rotator and a broken color bone as well as some lose teeth, ive made the fairly good decission to download this behemouth so as to be able to shoot it and survive.

my question is this......has anyone loaded this monster with black and if so,,,how does it act and is it friendly to shoot?

seems like it would fall between a 45/90 and a 45/100 in capacity and balistics. in spite of the tremendous power and recoil of this rifle,,,i really like it and if i can load something to shoot a lil more comfy, with the scope capability [ yep my eyes are getting tired ] id be a very happy camper.

thanks
Ted

Jim Watson · August 5, 2009, 02:23 PM

I have not done it, but there was a short span of time in which BPCR was getting popular again but there was no brass available longer than .45-70. There were some rifles chambered for .458 and called ".45 x 2 1/2" Belted" for loading with black. No reason to to fill 'er up with black in accordance with the established procedures. Thickness of the brass would probably give it a working volume closer to .45 x 2.4 (.45-90) than .45 x 2 7/8 (.45-100.)

Alternatively, Lyman shows .458 cast bullet loads with smokeless that would be less fuss and muss.

Smokin_Gun · August 5, 2009, 05:29 PM

For god's sake man tone that down some if you gotta go shoot it with a card and filler. It's gonna hurt ifin you weren't broken... dang be careful.

Hardy · August 6, 2009, 08:50 PM

I'm looking fer the Smokin Gun anybody know his whereabouts

Smokin_Gun · August 6, 2009, 09:44 PM

Hardy are you Smokin' Gun's twin Brother From SC?
If so I'm "The Smopkin' Gun you be lookin' for .... ;O)

Hardy · August 7, 2009, 05:54 PM

Yep--dat be me! Daddy sold all his land to the railroad and I guess you hept me double my inheritance. But, you know my bro only carried an 1861 Navy. Did yu shoot him wif one of your Big Rems? And PM me bout that ques on hammers------- Or I'ma comin w/ Two big dragoons

darkgael · August 7, 2009, 06:29 PM

Quote:

has anyone loaded this monster with black and if so,,,how does it act and is it friendly t

No, but....i have loaded other normally smokeless modern cf cartridges with BP.
Every one of them was milder than the smokeless version. If you are familiar with the recoil of the .458 as it is normally, BP loads will hold no terror - I'd expect them to be quite mild in comparison.

Smokin_Gun · August 8, 2009, 12:37 PM

Quote:

But, you know my bro only carried an 1861 Navy. Did yu shoot him wif one of your Big Rems?

Yep Hardy that thar was a Big Ol' Remington 1858 I pulled crossdraw. He winged me purdy good in the left rib cage, a flesh woud that is healin' fine... anyways, glad there's no hard feelings bout yur Brother...couldn't be helped.
Glad the inheretance worked in yur favor.

Hardy · August 8, 2009, 02:26 PM

No hard feelins atall! I jus hope cuzzins from Arkensaw don't get wind of this. They are meaner than barnyard guinnies. Now, what about that question I asked about the hammer on these guns? And as far as my twin brother--I'm glad yu did it-not me.....

Also, the hammer hand assemblies for uberties thru Taylor are $14.00 Piettas are $5.99.!? And colt are 29.90.!!? The Ubertie hammer hands are back ordered--they don't know when they'll be in supply. You got any---and if yu want, comment on these price differences. So, I stand in good character that you just can't get hammer hands for less than $10.00 unless it is for Piettas. I think.?

Wild Billy Hardy

Hardy · August 8, 2009, 03:06 PM

And Smokin--I'm glad yur recovering nicely from that wound. Nobody here eber wants yu to leave!

Smokin_Gun · August 8, 2009, 06:11 PM

First Bigted1956 I wanna qppologize for a steelin' some of your thread... I got carried ay with Hardy trackin' me down.

Hardy start a thread on that hemmetr deal of our own and i'll meet ya there...

SG

Slopemeno · August 18, 2009, 11:19 PM

I have some reloads for my .458 that are reloaded with 405 grain lead bullets and 3031 that chrono out at about 1900 fps, and the gun (Ruger 77) doesn't even move. It's like shooting a .22.

B.L.E. · August 20, 2009, 06:26 AM

The .458 magnum basically is a stretched .45-70 with a belted case. Case capacity is 93.3 grains of water verses 75 grains of water for the .45-70. That's about a 20% increase in case capacity. With black powder, upping the charge by 20% increases the kinetic energy (not the velocity) by about 20%.

Any bullet that works in a .45-70 will work in a .458 and they make bullets as light as 300 grains and with black powder, you can reduce charges by using cornmeal filler on top of the powder charge to keep the load compressed if a full charge of black still kicks too much.

August 5, 2009, 01:26 PM	#1
bigted1956 Junior Member Join Date: August 5, 2009 Posts: 14	458/black powder hello all, i know this is strange and prolly outta place but here goes anyway. i have a cz 550 safari in 458 win mag. after recovery from a torn rotator and a broken color bone as well as some lose teeth, ive made the fairly good decission to download this behemouth so as to be able to shoot it and survive. my question is this......has anyone loaded this monster with black and if so,,,how does it act and is it friendly to shoot? seems like it would fall between a 45/90 and a 45/100 in capacity and balistics. in spite of the tremendous power and recoil of this rifle,,,i really like it and if i can load something to shoot a lil more comfy, with the scope capability [ yep my eyes are getting tired ] id be a very happy camper. thanks Ted

August 5, 2009, 05:29 PM	#3
Smokin_Gun Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 2005 Location: Mojave Desert, CA Posts: 1,195	For god's sake man tone that down some if you gotta go shoot it with a card and filler. It's gonna hurt ifin you weren't broken... dang be careful. __________________ "I Smoke Black Powder" "Favor an 1858 Remington" SGT. Smokin' Gun, Mosby's Rangers 43rd Virginia Cavalry C.S.A. SASS# 19634, ... Admin:http://blackpowdersmoke.com/oldcoots/index.php Last edited by Smokin_Gun; August 6, 2009 at 09:42 PM.

August 6, 2009, 09:44 PM	#5
Smokin_Gun Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 2005 Location: Mojave Desert, CA Posts: 1,195	Hardy are you Smokin' Gun's twin Brother From SC? If so I'm "The Smopkin' Gun you be lookin' for .... ;O) __________________ "I Smoke Black Powder" "Favor an 1858 Remington" SGT. Smokin' Gun, Mosby's Rangers 43rd Virginia Cavalry C.S.A. SASS# 19634, ... Admin:http://blackpowdersmoke.com/oldcoots/index.php

August 8, 2009, 06:11 PM	#11
Smokin_Gun Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 2005 Location: Mojave Desert, CA Posts: 1,195	First Bigted1956 I wanna qppologize for a steelin' some of your thread... I got carried ay with Hardy trackin' me down. Hardy start a thread on that hemmetr deal of our own and i'll meet ya there... SG __________________ "I Smoke Black Powder" "Favor an 1858 Remington" SGT. Smokin' Gun, Mosby's Rangers 43rd Virginia Cavalry C.S.A. SASS# 19634, ... Admin:http://blackpowdersmoke.com/oldcoots/index.php

August 5, 2009, 02:23 PM	#2
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,539	I have not done it, but there was a short span of time in which BPCR was getting popular again but there was no brass available longer than .45-70. There were some rifles chambered for .458 and called ".45 x 2 1/2" Belted" for loading with black. No reason to to fill 'er up with black in accordance with the established procedures. Thickness of the brass would probably give it a working volume closer to .45 x 2.4 (.45-90) than .45 x 2 7/8 (.45-100.) Alternatively, Lyman shows .458 cast bullet loads with smokeless that would be less fuss and muss.

August 6, 2009, 08:50 PM	#4
Hardy Senior Member Join Date: August 6, 2009 Location: South Carolina Posts: 709	I'm looking fer the Smokin Gun anybody know his whereabouts

August 7, 2009, 05:54 PM	#6
Hardy Senior Member Join Date: August 6, 2009 Location: South Carolina Posts: 709	Yep--dat be me! Daddy sold all his land to the railroad and I guess you hept me double my inheritance. But, you know my bro only carried an 1861 Navy. Did yu shoot him wif one of your Big Rems? And PM me bout that ques on hammers------- Or I'ma comin w/ Two big dragoons

August 8, 2009, 02:26 PM	#9
Hardy Senior Member Join Date: August 6, 2009 Location: South Carolina Posts: 709	No hard feelins atall! I jus hope cuzzins from Arkensaw don't get wind of this. They are meaner than barnyard guinnies. Now, what about that question I asked about the hammer on these guns? And as far as my twin brother--I'm glad yu did it-not me..... Also, the hammer hand assemblies for uberties thru Taylor are $14.00 Piettas are $5.99.!? And colt are 29.90.!!? The Ubertie hammer hands are back ordered--they don't know when they'll be in supply. You got any---and if yu want, comment on these price differences. So, I stand in good character that you just can't get hammer hands for less than $10.00 unless it is for Piettas. I think.? Wild Billy Hardy

August 8, 2009, 03:06 PM	#10
Hardy Senior Member Join Date: August 6, 2009 Location: South Carolina Posts: 709	And Smokin--I'm glad yur recovering nicely from that wound. Nobody here eber wants yu to leave!

August 18, 2009, 11:19 PM	#12
Slopemeno Senior Member Join Date: January 19, 2007 Posts: 2,663	I have some reloads for my .458 that are reloaded with 405 grain lead bullets and 3031 that chrono out at about 1900 fps, and the gun (Ruger 77) doesn't even move. It's like shooting a .22.

August 20, 2009, 06:26 AM	#13
B.L.E. Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 2008 Location: Somewhere on the Southern shore of Lake Travis, TX Posts: 2,603	The .458 magnum basically is a stretched .45-70 with a belted case. Case capacity is 93.3 grains of water verses 75 grains of water for the .45-70. That's about a 20% increase in case capacity. With black powder, upping the charge by 20% increases the kinetic energy (not the velocity) by about 20%. Any bullet that works in a .45-70 will work in a .458 and they make bullets as light as 300 grains and with black powder, you can reduce charges by using cornmeal filler on top of the powder charge to keep the load compressed if a full charge of black still kicks too much.