remington 700 varmint 308 help

[jeepster11]

i just got to shoot my 700 and i worked up some loads with varget powder and hornady 165 grain sst and 165 grain speer for some reason the speers wouldnt chamber and the hornady worked awesome what do you think my problem is thanks for your help

also its not the rifle my buddy has same rifle and it did the same thing but one of the other guys had a mauser and it shot everything just wasnt as accurate thanks

[R.Childs]

What is your seating depth? Are the speers seated out further at the ogive than the hornady's?

Sounds like the speers are seated too long and the bullets are engaging the rifling therefore keeping the bolt from closing.

I would seat the speers in a little and see if they chamber then.

[Scorch]

Speer bullets have a different ogive, so they are probably running into the rifling if you have them seated to the same length as the Hornadys.

I thought you said you worked these loads up. That in itself means that you loaded, fired, and evaluated several loads for powder charge, seating depth, and overall length. Just loading a bunch of cartridges is not working up a load. Any time you change any component, it's back to square 1.

[jeepster11]

well i started at the minimum for both bullets and over all length were the same and every thing all looked the same i only did 20 of each to see if they worked and the speers didnt and also what is the ogive thing you were talking about so you all think if i seat the bullets more that will solve my problem? thanks


also i had two side by side which was awesome i will post a pic when i go to the range and after i get it dialed in so they are pretty accurate and also what about distance on 165 grain hornady loaded with a cci primer and 35 grains of varget what woud you think my max yardage would be thanks shane

[R.Childs]

Jeepster, yes, I think if you seat your speers in a little that will cure your problem. Plus, it's the quickest and simplest thing to do especially since the Hornady's chambered fine.

The ogive is the point on the bullet where the cone or taper stops and the bearing surface begins. This is the part of the bullet that first meets the rifling when you fire a round. Bullets are different in the fact that this reference point will be at different places on different bullets. You can check this visually if you hold up one of the speers next to one of the hornady's. Check and see if the ogive is higher on the speer than the hornady. Even though you have the same col from the tip of the bullet to the bottom of the casing, the ogive can and will be in different places.

I believe what has taken place is the ogive is out further on the speers and it is engaging the rifling before the casing is fully in the chamber. This makes the casing stick out of the chamber too far and the bolt therefore won't close. By seating the speers in a little further it reduce the distance between the ogive and the bottom of the casing thus letting the cartridge go further into the chamber.

If I were you I would invest in a set of oal gages which take a measurement in your chamber letting you know how far you can seat a bullet out before the ogive contacts the rifling. This way you can seat a bullet to a specified distance from the rifling. You will find this tool useful as you can find the sweet spot where your gun is most accurate.

Hope I haven't rambled on too much. If you have a question about any of it, post back and I or one of the other guys can help ya out.

Good luck..............

[jeepster11]

about fed up with the speers i tried that now the bullets are going so far in the case where they are falling in and so loose and i have adjusted the crimp die as far as i can. my buddies italian mauser doesnt care it will take them the way i loaded them because his chamber isnt as critical i think i will just load them as i was and then i will let him shoot them up and i will stick with the hornadys for now im sure there more accurate and they also dont give me any fits thanks for all of your guys tips and also do you think 300 yards is out of the question for the 165s with 35 grains of varget with a cci lrm primer thanks guys cant wait to try it out on a coyote or ground hog or any critter that is leagal

[Bullet94]

Bullet parts -



A bullet comparator is used to measure from the ogive. I use these -

http://www.sinclairintl.com/cgi-bin/...600&type=store

Try making a dummy cartridge (no powder no primer) and seat the bullet extra long, color the bullet with a marker (don’t crimp at all). Then chamber this dummy and extract and see if you see marks on the bullet from the lands and measure the OAL. I thought it is hard to reach the lands with a factory Remington. Something just doesn’t seem right. Have you trimmed your brass? Could be your brass isn’t resized enough, try chambering an empty case.

.

[Scorch]

my buddies italian mauser

now the bullets are going so far in the case where they are falling in and so loose and i have adjusted the crimp die as far as i can.

Did you try resizing them first??

do you think 300 yards is out of the question for the 165s with 35 grains of varget with a cci lrm primer

Seriously, where did you get this load data? You can't just make this stuff up.

[Loader9]

jeepster, you need to quit, stop, and either sell all of your components or give them away. You have no business reloading anything. Frankly, you're starting to sound like a troll. Nobody in their right mind would just pick a number out of the air for a powder load. And the issues you are having don't make any sense to anybody that has done any reloading at all. Please quit before you hurt somebody or worse, kill someone.

[.22lr]

Jeepster 11,

I reviewed a few of your previous posts, so I am basing my assumptions off of what you have written in the past.

From your first post in this thread, I understand that you have loaded both Speer and Hornady bullets in a .308 Winchester case. Thus far, the cartridge with the Speer Bullet would not chamber, but the cartridges loaded with Hornady bullets would.

I have concluded that from your posts on other threads that you load straight wall cartridges (.500S&W .460S&W and 45-70govt). There are significant differences in loading bottle necked cartridges and straight walled cartridges. What loading manual are you using? Both Speer and Hornady manuals cover the topic pretty well.

To cover the reason that some would chamber and others would not, we will need some information.

1) What is the specific bullet you are using? The manufacturer's number will be on the box and in the loading manual for both Hornady and Speer.

2) What is the overall length you are loading both the Speer and Hornady bullets to?

3) Where did you get your brass from? If it is once fired military, it could be oversized from a too generous chamber.

4) Are you full length sizing your brass? if so, do you know how to adjust the die? Remember, this where straight wall and bottle neck reloading differs.

5) What overall length are you loading the rounds to?

6) What length are you trimming your brass to?

7) Where the heck did you get your load data from? a quick check at www.hodgdon.com has you WELL UNDER the starting load! If you have not consulted a manual, PLEASE DO SO! This becomes less a matter of accuracy and more a matter of SAFETY.

8) I am not aware of a "Italian mauser", except that one might mistake an Italian Carcano chambered in 7.35x51mm Carcano with a worn chamber for a .308. OR, your associate has a sporterized Mauser, whuch might have an improperly cut (read: too deep) chamber.

Loader9 is correct that improper loading could cause great harm or even death. Please provide as much info as you can so we can help and maybe keep you safe.

VR

Matt

[jeepster11]

if you all want to be jerks do it to someone else. second i got the number for the powder right out of my hornady loading manual it says to start with 33grains with a max of i think 44 so buzz off i have been loading for about 6 years and i think i know how to read a loading manual thanks to those that actually want to help and not just cause trouble

[jeepster11]

here is what im using its remington unfired new brass cci magnum primers and 165 grain hornady sst bullet loaded to the full length as in the lee loading book i cant remember as of right now but its what ever full length is and my lee loading manual says for varget minimum of 32.6 grains to a max of 44 grains im looking at it right now thanks for your help

[jeepster11]

i just got done looking at the hodgdons web site on loading and it says 42 to 46 why that much varience between them. im using 35grains, but thats also for the sp not the sst but it should be simular loads correct. at a hundred yards i had 2 shot group within 1/8th inch group or less at 100 yards. i think thats a good group for just starting to load .308s. so what should i do listen to the hornady manual or the hodgdon they seem to be shooting good thanks shane

[R.Childs]

What about the speers not chambering? Did you find the problem or give up on it??

[jeepster11]

no i tried to do several adjustments and to no avail so i gave up on them they kept falling into the brass all the way after i fully resized the brass and the hornady are perfect every time

[.22lr]

Did you measure the daimeter of the speer bullets? I guess its possible that somehow they came to you undersized. I am sure Speer would want to know and would probably offer you an exchange for them if they were the wrong size.

I may have missed it, but what was the cartridge overall length you loaded the speers to?

[Ben Shepherd]

Wonder if you have some 7mm slugs there?

[jeepster11]

i will have to measure them tomorow night and let you know thanks shane

[mrawesome22]

Dear Jeepster. Please don't let anyone shoot your handloads. I'm sorry, but your loads are an accident waiting to happen. Jeesh.

[mrawesome22]

What do you measure with Shane? Can you read a caliper? I don't mean to belittle you, but can you?

[jeepster11]

yes i have a caliper and i use it to make sure all loads are within spec. i am really crutial about my loads but this is why i was asking for information because i never have loaded rifle cartriges before. believe me my father in law and i shoot alot for fun and i never ever load max or over max charges. but thats the reason i started my loads out from 33 to 44 in my hornady manual rather than 42 to 46 as stated on hodgdon web site. also when i started loading i did make one bullet to a suggested charge to see where the powder came to in the case and 44 grains was at the bottom of the neck and and thats why i started lower. how do you know which to go with when one says 33 to 44 and the other says 42 to 46. i appreciate everyones help thanks

[wncchester]

" how do you know which to go with when one says 33 to 44 and the other says 42 to 46. i appreciate everyones help thanks"

We do it according to the instructions in every manual published; "Pick a low starting point and only go higher if no pressure signs show."

Point is, all those people who provide load data are doing so with their own rifles, not ours or anyone elses. All rifles are different, the powder lots are different, the primers are different and so are the bullets. Thus, there is no way the data can avoid being somewhat different. WE must make sure of the data's safe application in our own rifles. Or start low and stay low.

Book OAL is not a law either. It's just the OAL they used to develop the data. WE must make sure our ammo works in OUR rifle, including the OAL.

[mrawesome22]

So did you ever measure the Speer's Shane? Because I got to thinking. In order for the Speers to fall into the case, the ogive would have to go past the base of the neck. On a long 165gr bullet, it seems to me that this would be impossible to do without some sort of super specialized, extra long seating stem. I mean, if the ogive is half way down the neck (which should give a nice chuckle), and they still won't chamber, my educated guess is that it's not the bullet. Or possibly that they are .311" diameter bullets and expanding the neck so far that the neck of the cartridge can no longer enter the neck of the chamber. Quite the conundrum.

[jeepster11]

well i took them apart and tried again and i found my problem when i was working on getting the length right i crimped about 5 too hard and they now fall into the case the others are now working great out of my 308 yeah i was so frustrated i stayed away from them for a few days. but now is all good and while i had them open i redid the powder charges from 38 to 44 to make sure there safe in my gun without going too hot.

[Ben Shepherd]

So you hade "home made" 7mm slugs?

Glad you worked it out. ALWAYS ask questions if something isn't working right.

As far as rifle cartridges go, most need very little or no crimp. 308 loaded for a bolt action falls into that category.