The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Skunkworks > Handloading, Reloading, and Bullet Casting

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old July 27, 2013, 08:28 PM   #1
Andrew DG
Member
 
Join Date: July 27, 2013
Location: Central Maryland
Posts: 17
Questions on reloading 45 ACP

Hello, I am a long time reader, first time poster. I am pretty new to reloading and have a few specific questions that I haven't been able to find answers to by using the search feature.

The first is about expanding 45 ACP brass. I have a friend who has been reloading longer than I have and he suggested that I fairly heavily deburr (maybe chamfer is the proper term here) the inside of every shell so that I hardly have to expand the brass at all in order to for it to accept the new bullet. I see his reasoning but it seems like removing material every time I reload would be worse for the brass than expanding and then removing the bell. I am just looking for some input on this method and whether or not it is a good idea. Is deburring (chamfering) necessary at all? Also, if someone could let me know when I should use the term chamfer as opposed to deburr, that would probably be helpful.

The second has to do with cleaning the brass. Should this be done before resizing and depriming? This same friend of mine suggested I resize and deprime first, so that the primer pockets get somewhat cleaned as well. Again, I see his point but it seems like running dirty brass through my resizing die can't be good for it.

This leads me to a related question. Is there any benefit to cleaning the primer pockets of this brass?

I don't know if any of this information will affect the answers I get, but I am loading Rainier 200 grain plated round nose bullets out of a Lee Classic 4 hole turret press with 4 grains of bullseye. Currently, only three of the four holes are occupied with a Lee Carbide 3 die set. I am cleaning the brass in a Lyman Turbo 1200 Tumbler with corncob media.

I am sure a lot of you have more experience than I do with this, so all of your input is greatly appreciated, thanks.

Andrew DG is offline  
Old July 27, 2013, 08:52 PM   #2
m&p45acp10+1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 3, 2009
Location: Central Texas
Posts: 3,930
I do not chamfer my .45 ACP brass. In the past 5 years I have reloaded over 20 thousand of them. I tend to loose the brass long before it ever splits. I always leave the range with more brass than I brought with me as well.

If what you are doing is working for you I would stay with that. I found what works well for me, and have stuck with it. I have two friends that I have mentored in thier first few reloads. They now do what what works for them, that is within safe practices.
__________________
No matter how many times you do it and nothing happens it only takes something going wrong one time to kill you.
m&p45acp10+1 is offline  
Old July 27, 2013, 08:57 PM   #3
DMZX
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 6, 2007
Location: E. Oregon
Posts: 563
Andrew, it sounds like you are doing just fine.

I do not deburr or camfer , but give my brass just enough flare to accept a bullet and just enough crimp to close the flare.

I turbo my brass in corncob prior to resizing and depriming. I like my brass clean before they go into the dies.

The primer holes I never worry about. They tend to be self cleaning. I can't recall every seeing one clogged with fouling.

So, you are doing everything the same as me and I have reloaded straight wall pistol brass for 40 years.
DMZX is offline  
Old July 27, 2013, 08:58 PM   #4
mmb713
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 15, 2011
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
Posts: 421
Chamfering every case to avoid over expanding sounds like an enormous waste of time to me. 45 Auto brass lasts a long, long time with regular expanding. You will lose them before you split them. You will lose some case length, however minute, every time you chamfer and 45 Auto cases don't grow, if anything they will get slightly shorter over time. The only time you need to deburr/chamfer a cartridge case is after you trim it, and 45 Auto cases should never need trimming.

I clean cases first then resize and deprime. I don't clean primer pockets on handgun brass and have never had any problems. If you clean with corn cob media after depriming you should run the cases through the resizing/depriming die again to make sure there is no media in the flash hole. More wasted time. I just clean my brass after firing in corn cob media and when I'm ready for a relaoding session I just load 'em up. It's pistol loads, not precision rifle loads, and sweating over all of the minutia won't make a bit of difference at 25 yards and less.
mmb713 is offline  
Old July 27, 2013, 09:09 PM   #5
Andrew DG
Member
 
Join Date: July 27, 2013
Location: Central Maryland
Posts: 17
Thanks for all the input, I was kind of hoping to hear that these extra steps were a waste of time. I just wanted to bounce it off of a few more people before omitting them. Primer pocket cleaning and chamfering after resizing kind of defeats the purpose of having a turret press anyway.

I have only reloaded and shot about 200 rounds, so to say that this method "has been working for me" is probably a little premature. Also, at this stage in my reloading experience I am not opposed to taking advice and trying a few different methods.
Andrew DG is offline  
Old July 27, 2013, 09:11 PM   #6
dmazur
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 5, 2007
Location: Pacific NW
Posts: 1,310
I don't chamfer the case mouths for .45 ACP.

If you clean brass (using a tumbler) before resizing/depriming, you have nice clean brass running in the die and you knock out any media which might be trapped in the flash hole during depriming.

I have never worried about primer residue.

While those who use a single stage press can create as many "operations" as they like, if you use a progressive press you tend to like stuffing clean brass in the first station and watching finished rounds fall out the last one.

A word of caution about cleaning brass - There are quite a few who like to use Brasso and similar products to make the brass "really shiny". Compounds which contain ammonia do create shiny brass, and also chemically attack the brass and weaken it.

Clean is good. Mirror finish shiny is unnecessary, especially if you use chemicals to accomplish this.
__________________
.30-06 Springfield: 100 yrs + and still going strong
dmazur is offline  
Old July 28, 2013, 05:52 AM   #7
JKilbreth
Member
 
Join Date: May 10, 2012
Location: Georgia
Posts: 97
Questions on reloading 45 ACP

Another thing to keep in mind is that if you size and deprive prior to cleaning, there is a small possibility (I've done it to myself) that tumbling media will become lodged in the flash hole in front of the primer, and if you don't watch out, you could load a round with that obstruction.

From experience, I can say that that happened to me often when I sized, deprimed, then cleaned. However, I was---and still am--anal retentive about my cases and noticed when that happened and had to clean the flash hole, so I can't say that I've ever fired a reload with an obstructed flash hole. It might not even do anything, but better to be safe, I thought.
JKilbreth is offline  
Old July 28, 2013, 06:16 AM   #8
hodaka
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 23, 2006
Location: South Texas
Posts: 2,010
Your friend gave you good advice relative to reloading Rifle rounds that have been trimmed. Most of us clean rifle primer pockets for match ammo although it is probably unnecessary for most rifle applications. Those steps, however, are totally unnecessary in loading up your .45's. The previous posters have given you the correct information.
hodaka is offline  
Old July 28, 2013, 07:49 AM   #9
4runnerman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 16, 2010
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 3,577
Chamfer- slight taper on inside of case mouth to except bullet easier
Debur- other end of chamfer tool- to remove any small pcs of brass left from chamfering. Smooth out the case mouth so to say
__________________
NRA Certified RSO
NwCP- Performance Isn't Optional
4runnerman is offline  
Old July 28, 2013, 08:55 AM   #10
Nathan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 1, 2001
Posts: 6,285
I don't chamfer, except after trimming. I do not trim semi-auto pistol brass. I just setup my case bell to bell just enough to allow the base of the bullet in. I then take the bell out with my bullet seating die and crimp with a Lee FCD. I think the chamfering idea sounds like a huge waste of time.

I get what you are saying about cleaning. Since I do not have issues with getting my primers seated properly deep, I will continue cleaning first and the sizing. The media in the flash hole is a very real issue. On rifle, I decap first and media is in the flash hole so much that I put the decapping die in the first station before I load the ammo.
Nathan is offline  
Old July 28, 2013, 10:06 AM   #11
243winxb
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 26, 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 1,730
Quote:
Is deburring (chamfering) necessary at all?
Only after trimming. But i have never had to trim a 45 acp case. Clean brass before sizing. Clean pocket about every 3th loading. Crud does build up in the pockets.
243winxb is offline  
Old July 28, 2013, 11:17 AM   #12
mikld
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 7, 2009
Location: Southern Oregon!
Posts: 2,891
My thoughts as it pertains to new reloaders is; flare as much as you need to seat bullets cleanly. Remove the flare with a taper crimp die after bullet is seated. Don't worry about case life for now, get the flaring/seating/deflaring down first. 45 ACP brass is still available so if your "over working" the brass reduces the case life, so? How much will the case life be reduced? five reloads? Ten reloads? Worry about numbers later, for now concentrate on loading...
__________________
My Anchor is holding fast!
I've learned how to stand on my own two knees...
mikld is offline  
Old July 28, 2013, 09:55 PM   #13
OkieCruffler
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 9, 2001
Location: Denison Texas on the banks of Texhoma
Posts: 1,556
I may be wrong, but if you were to chamfer 45 brass wouldn't that thin the case mouth and screw with your headspacing?
__________________
John A. Monroe, Never Forgive, Never Forget, Blood Pays Blood
OkieCruffler is offline  
Old July 28, 2013, 10:04 PM   #14
dmazur
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 5, 2007
Location: Pacific NW
Posts: 1,310
If all you do is a light chamfer (to remove burrs from trimming, which nobody does...), there shouldn't be a "knife edge" at the mouth.

And, if you only remove the bell using a taper crimp die, there shouldn't be a roll crimp even if there is a chamfer.

What you might see is a very thin gap...
__________________
.30-06 Springfield: 100 yrs + and still going strong
dmazur is offline  
Old July 28, 2013, 10:14 PM   #15
OkieCruffler
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 9, 2001
Location: Denison Texas on the banks of Texhoma
Posts: 1,556
I've never tried it, but I'm thinking to chamfer enough so that bullets will seat, especially my cast bullets, that's gonna be removing a lot of brass.
__________________
John A. Monroe, Never Forgive, Never Forget, Blood Pays Blood
OkieCruffler is offline  
Old July 29, 2013, 06:10 AM   #16
dmazur
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 5, 2007
Location: Pacific NW
Posts: 1,310
I haven't tried it either, just guessing what the outcome might be.

I think I understand what is being proposed, now. If it did work, it shouldn't have to be done every time.

But yes, in order to simulate the bell, it would have to create a difference in diameter.

Now I'm going to have to try it...
__________________
.30-06 Springfield: 100 yrs + and still going strong
dmazur is offline  
Old July 29, 2013, 06:29 AM   #17
dahermit
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 28, 2006
Location: South Central Michigan...near
Posts: 6,501
The early Lyman hand loading manuals always showed showed pictures of chamfering straight-walled handgun cases as a necessary step in the hand loading process. However, after many years of not doing so, and as many others have testified here, chamfering is both not necessary and only serves to thin the mouth of the cases where cracks usually start. The flaring step alone, provides all the angle for inserting bullets that is needed.
dahermit is offline  
Old August 6, 2013, 08:12 PM   #18
oldNewbie
Member
 
Join Date: December 27, 2009
Location: Missouri
Posts: 46
I've read the posts in this forum and have questions.

I've reloaded thousands of rounds of .38 Special, and found that if I don't clean the primer pockets, sometimes I will get primers that don't seat deeply enough and will hang up the revolver cylinder. That's been the main bugaboo in my .38 reloads. I figured that deposits in the primer pockets kept the primers from fully seating.

I've just started reloading .45 ACP, and want my reloads to be as perfect as possible for firing in my Colt Government Model. So, in the 100 rounds I've reloaded, I was very careful to clean the primer pockets between decapping and priming, which creates an extra operation and takes more time. What I've read here indicates that .45 ACP is different and pocket cleaning is not so important.

I'm using a 4-hole Lee Deluxe turret press. I always use Factory Crimp dies in the fourth position because of experience with the .38 rounds. My questions are these:

Am I doing something wrong with the .38 Special, or could there be an issue with my equipment in seating primers? (Is there some adjustment I can make, to push the small pistol primer in deeper?)

Should I expect the same issue of seating depth with large pistol primers if I don't clean the pockets? From what I've read, cartridge overall length is more critical in a semi-auto for feeding, and brass length is critical for head-spacing. How critical is primer seating depth in a semi-auto?

Thanks in advance,
oldNewbie is offline  
Old August 6, 2013, 08:32 PM   #19
JimDandy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 8, 2012
Posts: 2,556
I use a generic Decapping die (i.e. NOT the Resizing and Decapping die with a die set, but only the decapping rod in a sold seperately die) to deprime spent cases.

Then I run my 45 brass through a Thumler's Tumbler with Stainless Steel Media. I found it cleans the inside of the brass better, cleans the primer pocket, and doesn't get stuck in the flash hole. It also doesn't transfer media and dust to my case feeder on my progressive press.
JimDandy is offline  
Old August 6, 2013, 10:23 PM   #20
dmazur
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 5, 2007
Location: Pacific NW
Posts: 1,310
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldNewbie
How critical is primer seating depth in a semi-auto?
I have reloaded a few thousand rounds of .45 ACP. I have never cleaned primer pockets.

That doesn't mean it is unnecessary, just that I have been lucky enough to have never encountered the problem.

I use CCI primers. Do other brands create more residue? I don't know.

Primers must be seated flush or slightly below so they don't interfere with the action going into battery, or cause an out-of-battery firing.

I generally check for this when I run every round through a chamber gauge, by just passing my finger over the primer.

Calipers would provide a more accurate check, but I've learned to check for flush "by feel". I'm not sure the added accuracy of a caliper check is necessary for this step.
__________________
.30-06 Springfield: 100 yrs + and still going strong
dmazur is offline  
Old August 8, 2013, 12:31 AM   #21
Nick_C_S
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 21, 2013
Location: Idaho
Posts: 5,511
In my 29 years of reloading, I have never chamfered my 45 brass. I agree - I think over the long haul, you'd be removing too much material.

Cleaning your brass should be the first step after shooting. Then size/de-prime. If you de-prime first, then tumble, you'll have to dig cleaning media out of your primer pockets - which is a pain in the butt. (Been there. Done that.)

You'll get mixed opinions about this: But I clean my primer pockets before every use. Now, I rather doubt that it needs to be done every time, but I'm not going to try to keep track of how many times I've loaded my brass since I last cleaned the primer pocket. So I just do it every time. This is also why I don't use a progressive press.

For the record, I've been loading for 29 years, somewhere in the neighborhood of 30,000+ rounds, and have never had a misfire of any kind. If it works, don't mess with it.
__________________
Gun control laws benefit only criminals and politicians - but then, I repeat myself.
Life Member, National Rifle Association
Nick_C_S is offline  
Old August 8, 2013, 02:03 PM   #22
Hammerhead
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 31, 2004
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 2,432
I never chamfer/de-burr, trim or clean the primer pocket.
I do sort by head stamp.
Clean, reload and shoot.
Hammerhead is offline  
Old August 8, 2013, 03:34 PM   #23
BigJimP
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 23, 2005
Posts: 13,195
I clean my spent cases ...( in a tumbler ) ....and the only sort I do is to toss out the nasty looking ones, or ones with dents ...or some defect. ( and I sweep up range brass....so some of it may have been loaded a lot ...and some of it might have been new, and run thru a rental gun at the range...)..

I don't sort by head stamp...

I don't clean primer pockets...after the cases are resized and deprimed. I've never had a primer that didn't seat properly when I did my job right ...and no misfires ( I've been reloading for almost 50 yrs off and on / and the last 10 yrs or so, I've been shooting at least 20,000 rds a year).

I load .38 spl and .357 mag .....44 mag.....45 acp...and .40S&W and 9mm...and I use the same procedures on all of them.
--------------
Most presses don't have an adjustment to seat primers...its a question of firmly seating them...and you feel them drop in and seat. I will occasionally get a case where the primer doesn't want to go in....but its often a taperd primer pocket ( cases like S&B - are a problem )....so after I clean my spent cases, I do inspect them - and I try to catch any S&B cases and dump them in the garbage - as I sort cases into a "clean bin".
BigJimP is offline  
Old August 10, 2013, 06:25 PM   #24
oldNewbie
Member
 
Join Date: December 27, 2009
Location: Missouri
Posts: 46
Thanks to all for the insights. I too, use a vibratory tumbler (Cabela's) with corn-cob media and a little brass polish in the mix. It seems to work very well but I have occasionally had to clear media from the flash holes when I clean after decapping. I use a quick shot from a can of compressed air. It is a pain, though. I hadn't heard about stainless steel media, I'll have to research that. What does it do to the paint on the inside of the tumbler (if the Thumler has that)?

I've used mostly CCI primers but they are still in short supply locally with a limit of 200 per purchase. I've been able to buy full boxes of 1000 Remington primers (large) and Winchester (small) recently. For a while, I couldn't find .45 ACP 230-grain plated boolits either, but they seem to be coming back strong.

I also hadn't heard about tapered pockets in the S&B brass. A lot of the .38 brass I reloaded was S&B, but I didn't record what headstamps had the seating problems. With my press, I do get the tactile feedback when seating primers, I can feel them seating. I usually just eyeball the primer depth, but I'll use a steel straightedge across the bottom of the case head now and then.

I do pick up a brass on the range when it's there, and I think I'll continue to sort by headstamp since I've been picking up .45 ACP brass with both large and small primers.

I've mostly used the decapper built into the resizing die after tumbling, and there has occasionally been some media buildup around the base of the press ram and in the slot where the primer seater pivots on the pin inside the ram, but for that, again I just use the compressed air to clear the stuff out of the press mechanism as needed.

I'm still undecided on tumbling before or after decapping. Each has its pros and cons - tumbling after decapping, I get more media in the flash holes but cleaner primer pockets; tumbling before decapping, I get more residue in the primer pockets. I've read that decapping before cleaning actually helps lubricate the die, but I use carbide dies that aren't supposed to need any lubrication.

As for chamfering, I haven't done that with any .45 brass yet, but I have checked case lengths with a dial caliper after resizing. Haven't seen any case stretching yet.
oldNewbie is offline  
Old August 10, 2013, 06:50 PM   #25
JimDandy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 8, 2012
Posts: 2,556
On the Stainless Steel Media tumbling...

Here's a good How-To video, Stainless Tumbling

I do it a little different. I picked up a fine gauge flour sifter from Amazon that I run water through while picking out my Brass. Much less chance of losing some pins down the drain. Though I'm also playing around in my head of an idea involving a magnet, and a ziplock baggie cover. Stick the magnet in the baggie, pick up the pins, turn the baggie inside out to pull the pins off the magnet.

The main thing to watch out for, as a corrolary to those flash hole walnut bits, is a stainless pin staying inside the case. That's why we rinse them upside down underwater, to flush the pin out.
JimDandy is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:05 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2021 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Page generated in 0.07719 seconds with 10 queries