Whelen question

[Smith66]

I am considering re-barrelling my Winchester 70 30-06 to 35 Whelen. Has anyone here done that? Any experiences or inputs pro or con? Anyone had a rifle re-barrelled in the South Dakota area?
Also, I am aware of the 338-06 vs 35 Whelen....discussion, or whatever it is. I have contemplated all of this subject many times, and have my heart set on a Whelen.
Thanks in advance for any help you can offer!

[mete]

That's an old practice done on many guns, either boring out a worn barrel or installing a new barrel. A compitant gunsmith should have no problem with that .
Today you can get whelen brass or you could open up a 30-06 case.
The 35 Whelen is very appropriate for anything in Northe America !!

[Smith66]

Thanks Mete,
I am a handloader, and I will continue to load for 30-06, but I would certainly make use of -06 brass to make a Whelen round. Do you have a powder/bullet preference for the 35W?

[mete]

I don't have a 35 Whelen but i've been around for many years and all the guys who have one or convert to one are very happy. Unfortunately the 35 has never been very popular ,another example of popular vs good !!

[jmr40]

There is a reason the 35 Whelen never caught on. While it is a good round it gives 300 magnum recoil, with no real gains in performance over 30-06. Same with 338-06. Not many options for good .358 bullets either.

I've owned both rounds. Sold both after a few years of shooting and hunting. I got to looking closely at load possibilities, recoil levels, and talking to lots of folks who had used both on larger game. A 30-06 loaded with heavy bullets (200-220 gr.) will out penetrate, and do it with less recoil. A 300 mag loaded with those same bullets recoils about the same, but easily outperforms. Any of the 30's can be loaded with lighter 150 gr bullets for even less recoil and long range trajectories on smaller game.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the 35 Whelen for the guy who just wants to hunt with something different. And just wanting to use one is reason enough. If your heart is set on the Whelen, then go for it. While I don't see any advantage over 30-06, there are few downsides either. The round is flat shooting enough for at least 300 yards and will be something different from a 30-06. Which is admittedly a bit boring. The Whelens greatest advantage over the others is it's ability to shoot very light loads using pistol bullets if someone chooses. There are some lightweight .30 cal bullets too, not many options in lightweight .338 bullets.

[Jim Watson]

The .35 Whelen came along when the only dependable bullet was a plain cup and core JSP. The only way to get more striking power than a .30-06 was a bigger bullet. And the Whelen shot bigger bullets from a standard case without the expense of a magnum action.

We have a lot of gimmick bullets that actually work now.

[Tipsy Mcstagger]

57 grains of rl 15 with hornady's 200 grain gives about 2700 fps and shoots well (under an inch and that's with a 2.5x scope) and I also load the Barnes 225 tsx with the same charge at 2600 fps. Also, hornady's 158 xtp 357 with 16 grains of unique is 1620 fps. I have a 24" bbl 700 classic. I use this rifle a lot more than I thought I would, and enjoy taking one gun to the field that can kill anything and also kill little critters without much recoil or noise with the pistol loads. I asked some people here and Speer about a shot capsule load and it doesn't seem feasible. If somebody would make a high BC hunting bullet for them we'd really be in business at range.

[Smith66]

Thanks very much for all the input so far, I guess I should clarify my reasons for wanting a 35W to be fair to all. I have plenty of other centerfire rifles much better suited to small/medium game shooting, and i will continue to use them even if I buy a bigger rifle than 30-06. (30-06 is currently the most powerful rifle I own, and I am fully aware that I'd never need another rifle for North America if all I owned was a 30-06) I always believed "why would I ever need a bigger rifle, I've got no interest in hunting anything an 06 won't handle!"
However...
Last year I ended up having my first experience with elk hunting. Let's say I've changed my mind a bit
I did take my elk with a 30-06 shooting 180gr bullets, and I would do it again, but I got thinking about having a rifle that will throw 225&250gr bullets instead of 165&180. Changing a rifle from 30-06 to 35W only means switching barrels, as far as I can figure. The magazine and followers are the same, the bolt face is the same, etc etc.
As far as bullets, I'd be loading my own ammo, and I think that a Partition/Accubond/TSX/A-Frame in 225 or 250 would work pretty well for elk, moose or bear.
Am I completely off base here? I've got nothing against a 7RM or 300WM, or even one of the short mags if it comes to that

[F. Guffey]

I am considering re-barreling my Winchester 70 30-06 to 35 Whelen. Has anyone here done that?

Yes, I would chamber the rifle to 338/06, because I am a case former I would consider the 338/280 Remington.

F. Guffey

[Smith66]

Guffey,
I'm not sure why I've never thought of a 338/280 before, but that's a neat concept. Thanks for the reply!

[PetahW]

.

There's no need for rebarreling, to get a .35 Whelan from a .30-06 rifle.

For $245, Jes ( http://www.35caliber.com/ ) will rebore/rerifle a .30-06 to .358"/.35 Whelan - no other mods needed.

BTW - It's perfectly legal under Federal Law to sent a barreled action ( I wouldn't send the stock or bottom metal) directly to Jes, and receive the finished work back directly, w/o the use of an FFL (besides Jes, who holds an FFL).


.

[Bart B.]

If good accuracy is ones objective, I don't think a rebored and rifled barrel will work. The diameters at both end of the barrel will be larger than between two points back a couple inches from the ends.

This is why 'smiths cut the muzzle end off barrel blanks when they're used to rebarrel the receiver. The chambering reamer removes the oversize rifled section at the back end.

But reboring and rifling is an option.

[Jim Watson]

Like you said about .338s, Bart, I don't know of any target shooters putting mass quantities of .358s downrange with visions of Xs dancing in their heads.
The .35 Whelen is an large/intermediate hunting rifle round and a rebore will likely be plenty accurate to bop an elk.

[papershotshells]

I have wanted a 35 Whelen for YEARS. too much reading of old gun mags and books in my youth I guess, lol. I can just imagine myself wandering around the wilderness of Idaho or Montana with a 35 Whelen for weeks at a time, and if I turned around quick enough, I might just see Colonel Whelen or Elmer Keith there with me. LOL

It's just a damn interesting and historically intriguing cartridge. Plus, I'm a cast bullet shooter at heart, and I think the Whelen makes a better cast bullet cartridge than most (can't prove that, just going with my gut there).

In my heart though, the perfect Whelen (and the one I WILL build someday) is built on an 03 Springfield action. I've even seen some 03 actions for sale recently (online somewhere, forget where) and have thought that I better grab one for my future Whelen build because they sure aren't making anymore of them and they're never gonna get any cheaper.

I guess my point is, you can't go far wrong rebarreling your M70 to 35 Whelen, no matter what the 338/06 fans may say.

Papershotshells

[Doyle]

I've been looking for a .35 Whelen Encore barrel (at the right price) for almost a year now.

[Jimro]

Another good reason is casting bullets.

Heavy for caliber lead slugs traveling at a modest velocity work better in bigger bores. That being said, cast bullets in the 30-06 have worked for quite some time as well.

Jimro

[Smith66]

I have continued to look into all the handloading/re-loading manuals I can find, and I am pretty sure my mind is made up after reading all your replies here. Thank you for taking the time to respond to this thread. I'll post again when I continue with this project.

- Smith66

[roklok]

jmr40,

I cant help notice that every time .35 Whelen is mentioned in a thread, you come along and expound upon the 30-06 being just as good with modern bullets. I have to disagree. While modern bullets certainly have enabled better terminal performance from just about any cartridge, when it comes to BIG game, I am convinced of the .35 Whelens superiority over the 30-06.

I have two 30-06s, and my wife has one. I like them, and use them, but they can not push a 250 grain bullet to 2500+ FPS or a 225 grain bullet to 2700 FPS like the Whelen can. I have shot moose, muskox, grizzly with my Whelen, and a .358 diameter 250 grain partition at 2550 FPS muzzle velocity has a dramatic effect on bigger animals. I have shot lengthwise through a seven foot interior grizzly with this load, so in my mind, any theoretical sectional density advantage of the 220 grain .308 is moot.

The 30-06 is fine, and honestly, all one really needs for North America hunting, but I think you are fooling yourself if you think the 30-06 can match the Whelen with heavier bullet weights. You are right on one point, the recoil is on par with the 300 magnums, and for good reason, the Whelen pushes similar weight bullets to similar speeds as a .300 magnum. For example, the Whelen can push a 200 grain bullet at 2900+ FPS, which is on par with what a .300 Mag will do.

[44 AMP]

One of the interesting things about the .35s, and maybe the reason they are kind of "orphans" and not very popular is that, on paper, they don't show much, if any advantage over the .30s.

However, my field observations over several decades is that deer and other game simply don't read the same tables we do. The .35s work well, and often results seem well out of proportion for what the paper specs say they ought to be.

Even the "lowly" .35 Remington performs better then you would expect from its specs, and the bigger .35s tend to hit like the Hammer of Thor. A friend of mine has a .35 Whelen, he is rather fond of it.

But make no mistake, they DO kick, and kick pretty hard in a lighter gun. Make no mistake I got nothing against the .30-06. And while I can't quantify it on paper, the .35 Whelen will do what the 06 does, and then some.

[old roper]

This is from Nosler site

35 Whelen

BRAND: Trophy Grade Ammunition | BULLET STYLE: AccuBond
PART #: 60081 | COUNT: 20 | MSRP: $62.30
BULLET WEIGHT: 225 | BBL TWIST RQMT: 1-16"
FOR USE: Deer/Elk/Moose Sized Game | LEAD-FREE: N
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yards / Muzzle Velocity(FPS) Energy(FT-LBS) Drop In Inches(100YD)
MUZ: 2750 3777 -1.5
100: 2559 3272 0
200: 2376 2821 -3.8
300: 2201 2421 -13.8
400: 2033 2065 -31
500: 1873 1753 -56.6
600: 1722 1482 -92.1
700: 1581 1248 -139.3
800: 1451 1051 -200.5


I shoot 35 WhelenAI with Kreiger barrel also own 30-06 with Bartlein barrel so I get best of both worlds. Well it didn't copy like it was suppose and I can't edit it to line up with etc. sorry about that

[std7mag]

As Old roper had mentioned, you may want to go with the AI version.

You have to get a reamer anyways.
The AI shoulder provides better headspacing, less case stretching.

Just a thought.....