My 9mm loads suck

[nsf003]

I reloaded 100 rounds of 9mm and 100 rounds of 38 SP. I shot them both with my dad. We hit the target almost every time with the 38s but couldn't hit the broadside of a barn from inside with the 9mms. Is there something special you must do when loading automatic pistol rounds? How do I get accuracy?

nsf

[Mike Irwin]

Well, you're going to have to provide a little more information...

What bullet?

What case?

What gun?

What powder?

Are you crimping the cases? Roll or taper?

[blades67]

We also need to know...

Did you use a progressive machine? Manual or automatic indexing?

How much powder was loaded?

Was each charge weighed?

What was the OAL?

Which primer was used and how were they seated?

[Mal H]

... and how did you determine that it was the 9mm load that was inaccurate and not the pistol or shooter?

[nsf003]

Bullet = 115 gr HP

Case = already fired by me Winchester or PMC brass

Gun = Ruger P94

Powder = Bullseye

Crimp = taper, had some problems with it. Need help here too.

I have a single stage machine. I loaded something like 4.5 grains of powder. Using one of those powder measurer things, I did not weigh each charge, only weighed one out of every 10 charges for uniformity and safety reasons. I checked for double charges. I have no clue what an OAL is. I think the primer was Small pistol 100 or the like. Correct me if I am wrong, probably am.

... and how did you determine that it was the 9mm load that was inaccurate and not the pistol or shooter?

We tried a box of factory FMJ afterwards and we hit the box 9 out of 10 times.

nsf

[stans]

nsf003, please do not take offense to what I am about to say, but it sounds like you have little experience with reloading. If you have not already purchased and read at least one reloading manual, I suggest you do so immediately. The 9mm can be very finiky and dangerous to reload. OAL (cartridge OverAll Length) is critical in the 9mm since it operates at high pressure. Seating bullets too deeply will result in excessive pressure and can lead to damage to or destruction of the gun and injury to the shooter and by-standers.

[cheygriz]

stans hit the nail on the head! Buy a copy of the Lyman reloading manual, and a copy of either Speer, Hornady, or Hodgdon reloading manuals. In my experience, the Lyman is the best manual for a new reloader.

9MM is an easy cartridge to reload, but like any other, it has its' own little quirks which you must learn.

Also, if you have a good friend who is an EXPERIENCED reloader, have him/her get together with you for an evening of reloading and learn a few little tricks that aren't in the book.

BTW.... Weighing every tenth charge is adequate. There is no reason whatsoever to weigh every charge.

ALSO!!!!!! If you son't have one already, get a LEE Factory Crimp Die fore your 9MM. I use the LEE FCD for all ammo used in m,y semi-autos.

[nsf003]

You're right, I am inexperienced.

I own a copy of the RCBS reloading manual and use it as a guide for my reloads.

I have no friends that are experienced with reloading.

nsf

[C.R.Sam]

Second the motion to add a Lyman Reloading Manual to your library. Read the whole thing through....then keep it for reference and for second sourcing all data.

When dealing with things that can bite. Good idea to second source all data. The best of books have typos, mistakes and editing errors. Rare, but it happens.

Sam

[Mal H]

nsf003 - Nothing at all to be embarassed about. There's one thing I can absolutely guarantee without fear of any rebuttal whatsoever is that every single one of us here were inexperienced at one time. And we didn't have anything like TFL to go to to ask questions. So our learning curve was a lot shallower than yours will be. So I envy you in that respect.

I'll third the motion to buy a second reloading manual and the Lyman one mentioned is first rate in the info it has jammed into it.

The OAL is the first thing you should study up on since, as stans said, it is the one thing (other than powder type and amount) that can get you in trouble if you don't pay attention to it especially in high pressure handgun calibers like the 9mm.

[Mike Irwin]

NSF,

Where at in South Central PA?

That's my stomping grounds.

One of these days if you want to schedule some "reloading time" I'd be more than happy to observe, point out where you might be going wrong, etc.

[Chuck McDonald]

When you get the Lyman manual a good starting point for 9mm is the accuracy load. Lyman marks the load they have found to be most accurate. Unless it is the max load (then work up to it carefully) it usually gives good results.

Also, do your self a favor...buy a set of Calipers... it is very important to know your OAL is correct... particularly with small capacity cartridges.

FWIW

Chuck

[nsf003]

Good advice, thanks a lot. Does anyone know of where I could get a catalog of reloading supplies such as primers, bullets, and brass?

nsf

[ACP230]

Check out Midway, Wideners, Natchez, and Midsouth Shooter's Supply Company. They all have web sites so just type the names into a search engine. I've used Midway and Midsouth the most for reloading stuff.

Buy a copy of Shotgun News or The Gun List. There are lots of dealers in powder, primers and bullets advertising in both. One of the chain bookstores in my area carries the above rags.

I use the Hornady reloading manual, backed up by the Lee manual, a pile of handouts from manufacturers. HTH.

[stans]

nsf003, we all started somewhere. I agree with the recommendation that you get the Lyman manual. This was my first manual, read it all the way through. Now I have a bunch of manuals, but I always check the Lyman manual when developing loads. When in doubt, ask questions, answers will come. No one wants to see you get hurt, so be safe, take your time, enjoy reloading and enjoy shooting.

[Mikul]

The only time I had problems with 9mm shooting minute of barn was when I used plated rounds in my H&K. That gun just won't shoot anything but real jacketed bullets.

Another thing that could be doing it is your crimp. If your crimp is too heavy, you could be tearing into the jacket which can cause it to start falling apart as the bullet goes down the barrel. I kept cranking my seating die down and pulling the pullet each time. When the crimp dented the bullet, I backed off and left it there and everything works fine.

[WESHOOT2]

OAL.
Exact powder charge.
Desired performance.

Sounds like you want an accurate load.
So do this: get a dial caliper (available from Midway about $25); get a pound of Vihtavuori Oy 3N37 or OR Hodgdon HS6; use their websites to gather data; buy some Hornady XTP's or Speer Gold Dot's; finish using the LEE Carbide Factory Crimp die; use one brand of cases for your testing (yes, even if you have to separate them by hand); test your ammo using multiple shooters.

I'll bet you find an accurate load.

If not, e-mail me direct.

[HankB]

nsf003 - in addition to agreeing with the excellent advice you've already gotten, I suggest starting a notebook to record details of everything you load. That way, you'll have something to go back to if things do - or don't! - work out so well, and with experience, you'll soon start to see where the problems are.

As far as your current trouble, I'd guess that either the bullet or the crimp are the culprits if you're getting really horrendous accuracy.

[sleeping dog]

HankB, what kind of details are useful in a notebook? What kind of guidance does it provide?

Obviously, type & amount of powder, brand & weight of bullet, but what else?

Thanks.

[Hemicuda]

in that notebook goes the date, time, and whatnot, Caliber, type of case, any prepwork ON the case (trimmed or not) powder type, size of charge, bullet type, primer type, primer manufacturer, bullet manufacturer, powder manufacturer, measured OAL, any other pertinent info, AND # of rounds loaded...

for TOTAL EXTREME accuracy, I have seen weather conditions (humidity et al) recorded there too...

then, you can go back, look at what you did, and systematically change 1 thing at a time, and see what works and what doesn't...

[HankB]

HankB, what kind of details are useful in a notebook?

Hemicuda pretty much summed it up. When I'm developing a new load, I also include chronograph data, group size, measurement of the pressure ring, and any observations about things like sticky extraction or leaking gas around the primer pocket. (Ummm . . . these last may be indications that you've got a serious pressure problem, and you'd better back off and re-evaluate what's going on.)

For loads I've already worked up and standardized on, I just record component type, powder charge, OAL, and date loaded.