How long is ammo good for?

PigFarmer · October 3, 2011, 09:55 AM

So I ran across two boxes of .30-06 that my grandfather had loaded in 1975. Thought it might be fun to take them to the range and touch them off in the Springfield .30-06 rifle that he left me. Then I got to thinking in the back of my mind that powder goes bad at some point.

Question then, is it safe to shoot them?

kalevatom · October 3, 2011, 10:33 AM

As long as they're clean, no corrosion, shoot'em. I watched a show the other night about the Barrett .50 cal rifles and the Army was using .50 cal ammo made in 1945 for training. I shoot 22LR from the '80's with no problem.

mkk41 · October 3, 2011, 10:57 AM

As long as it's stored in a cool dry place , modern primers and powder have a practically indefinate shelf life. Especially military and top shelf commercial ammo , which has tarpitch-sealed bullets and lacquer sealed primers. I recently shot up some USGI .45 ammo headstamped RA 40. That's 71yrs old!

Not many handloaders seal their ammo , but some do. Especially if used for hunting in foul weather. But it should still be fine.

mehavey · October 3, 2011, 11:22 AM

I'm shooting military `06 ball ammo made well over a half century ago. (And my best shooting Greek HXP is `65 vintage.) If kept out of jungle floor conditions, such ammunition may outlast us both.

A more important question (for you), is:

(a) What was the load your Grandfather used ?
(b) What's the maker/serial number of the rifle ?
(c) Anybody looked at it to assure you the headspace is OK ? ("Probably" is)

wncchester · October 3, 2011, 11:40 AM

"How long is ammo good for? "

Well, in 30-06, about a mile and a half, max, but you probably can't hit much that far out.

Savage32-20 · October 3, 2011, 12:20 PM

Your probably ok to go out and shoot them. To be on the safer side of things though (and to avoid a wasted trip to the range). I would pull 3 or 4 of them apart.

1st - smell the powder - odd smells like vinegar or citrus may indicate a problem with the powder.

2nd - weigh the powder - If your grandfather marked the box you should know what powder is in them. This way you can compare the powder in the shell to how much powder should be in there (check a loading manual). This will give you an idea of what your shooting so there is no surprise that first time you pull the trigger. Doing a few shells will also give you an overall accuracy count if they are all the same (or close). If every one is (drastically) different then you may want to reconsider.

3rd - Inspect the case - If it looks really clean inside/outside and there are no defects or watermarks then your usually good.

4th - look at the powder - does it look like it's gotten wet and caked - is there a powdery rust color to it?

Then take all of this information and make an informed decision. Even though your grandfather may have been a great reloader - who knows (other than him) how he loaded the ammo and what it's intended purpose was. It may all be perfect in every way shape and form. A few shells taken apart can answer a few questions and allow you to make an informed decision.

Slamfire · October 3, 2011, 05:34 PM

I wrote a long post on the life time of powders in this thread:

http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...tive+munitions

The lifetime of ammunition is primarily determined by the lifetime of the propellant.

The lifetime of powder is not infinite, which is why the military scraps ammunition all the time.

oneounceload · October 3, 2011, 08:06 PM

Hell, I still have ammo I loaded in 1980 and shoot some now and again - not a big deal unless they have been stored improperly

Stick_man · October 3, 2011, 08:13 PM

With proper loading procedures and storage, ammo should be good for a long long time... at least until you shoot it. After it has been shot, well, that's another story.

Great advice too, by the way, about taking a sampling of a few of them to see what kind of loads they are or were meant to be.

mouser868 · October 3, 2011, 09:39 PM

Dad has some 22-250 shells that he loaded before I was born in 1968 that will still shoot under 1\2 inch groups at 100 yards. That's out of the Mauser action, Douglas Barreled target rifle he built that has a 12X Unyrtel scope on it. The cases for that were originally 250 Savage cases he necked down because at the time when he built the rifle there was no commercial 22-250 brass.

PigFarmer · October 5, 2011, 08:30 AM

Thanks for the help on this. The aneverseray of his death is coming up and I thought it would be fun to go touch them off in the Springfield he left me as well. He kept good records of what was loaded into them right on the box (something I'm going to start doing) so I know they are supposed to be 165 gr bullet with 46 gr of powder. not sure what type of powder but that looks to be right in the middle of the pack for the powders I have looked at for that round.

Shotgun693 · October 5, 2011, 07:17 PM

I had a bunch of 'Swasticker' marked '42 German 9mm ammo. It shot just fine although I now wish I'd kept it for trading material.

boostedtt91 · October 7, 2011, 05:54 PM

as long as its storaged properly, it really doesnt matter how old it is to a point. I have gotten military surplus from the 1940's which shoot perfect, and also got newer ones that have been just wrapped with a cheap thin paper which doesn't protect it much and had problems with them

orionengnr · October 7, 2011, 10:19 PM

A quick search would have answered this question, many times over. Numerous threads have addressed this already.

In order to add something constructive to the converstion, I will submit this:
I bought some Euro surplus 9mm ammo in bulk back around 1991. The ammo was manufactured in the 40s. I shot most of it back in the 90s, but still have some left, and it still works just fine.

So the answer is, "not quite forever, but damn near".

Don P · October 8, 2011, 08:43 AM

Only good for 40 days and 40 nights!

JerryM · October 8, 2011, 09:31 AM

I have fired factory loads over 50 years old, and handloads over 30.

The one problem I encountered was that I did not clean the case necks, and in time the bullet and case neck corroded to the extent that it raised pressures enough for primer leaks. When that happened I pulled a couple of bullets and as I did I noticed that a lot of force was required to pull the bullet. LIGHT ON!

I set my seating die down just enough to move the bullet. Each time there would be a "pop." After that all was well. As a result when I use a handload over a year old I make sure I have "popped" the bullet.

Since I did not load the ammo, I would pull one and see what the charge is. I would assume he did use the correct powder, and if the load was within reason for the powder I would use them.

I realize you cannot be sure what a powder is visually. However, the powders normally used to load 06 in those days, such as 4895, 4064, 4320, are fairly easily identified.

Jerry

Toney · October 8, 2011, 01:30 PM

I've shot alot of the turk ammo made in the 30s.

micksis86 · October 8, 2011, 03:38 PM

Was using some IMR power he over day that had some rust coloured dust in it and I assumed it was from the inside of the tin as it was a fair age and metal. Anyway it shot fine, very accurat and very consistently.

I didn't know that was an issue. What is the rust coloured residue and what does it mean?

The powder smelt fine by the way.

m&p45acp10+1 · October 8, 2011, 05:36 PM

I shot some .38 spcl my grampa loaded in the late 80's it shot just fine. I have fired .45 auto surplus from the 50's and all of them went bang.

Oh and I am shooting some 7.62x54 R that was loaded in the early 1930's it shoots just fine, though it is corrosive. I just have to wash the barrel and chamber out before cleaning normaly.

Sergeant · October 8, 2011, 06:20 PM

Oldest ammo I ever shot was from the 20's.

I concur with the posts about inspecting it good. Do not take a chance with anyone showing any odd signs.

GM2 · October 9, 2011, 02:36 PM

I have some ammo that I bought in the 70's shot some of it last week and it all fired as new. I store all of My ammo in The metal military type boxes.

Slamfire · October 9, 2011, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Was using some IMR power he over day that had some rust coloured dust in it and I assumed it was from the inside of the tin as it was a fair age and metal. Anyway it shot fine, very accurat and very consistently.

I didn't know that was an issue. What is the rust coloured residue and what does it mean?

It probably was rust, and it probably got there through NOx outgassing from the powder and reacting with the metal in the can. As I explained in this post.

http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...04&postcount=9

As powder ages it breaks down and gives off NOx. I would have advised you dump that powder as powder at the end of its shelf life is unpredictable.

thallub · October 9, 2011, 08:28 PM

Oldest ammo i own is .45/70 military Gatling gun stuff from the late 1880s. One round in four fires. Got a large quantity of this ammo in about 1960. Until about 1975 every round fired, then it went to pot fast. Also have some .30 Army (.30/40) military ammo with dates of 1902-05. About one rou nd in three fires.

Ammo thats stored in a cool dry place will last a lifetime.

m&p45acp10+1 · October 9, 2011, 08:49 PM

i actualy have some of grampa's old surplus 30-36 ammo that is dated 1908. We shot some in the early 80s and it all fired just fine though grampa cleaned the rifle, he said it was corrosive. I am sure if I loaded some it would fire. It has been stored properly. Though I do not want to go through so much work to see if it will fire. I will stick to Reminton CoreLoct. Oh and I think those are from the mid 70's.

October 3, 2011, 09:55 AM	#1
PigFarmer Member Join Date: August 24, 2011 Location: Texas Posts: 97	How long is ammo good for? So I ran across two boxes of .30-06 that my grandfather had loaded in 1975. Thought it might be fun to take them to the range and touch them off in the Springfield .30-06 rifle that he left me. Then I got to thinking in the back of my mind that powder goes bad at some point. Question then, is it safe to shoot them?

October 3, 2011, 05:34 PM	#7
Slamfire Senior Member Join Date: May 27, 2007 Posts: 5,261	I wrote a long post on the life time of powders in this thread: http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...tive+munitions The lifetime of ammunition is primarily determined by the lifetime of the propellant. The lifetime of powder is not infinite, which is why the military scraps ammunition all the time. __________________ If I'm not shooting, I'm reloading.

October 8, 2011, 08:43 AM	#15
Don P Senior Member Join Date: December 17, 2005 Location: Swamp dweller Posts: 6,187	Only good for 40 days and 40 nights! __________________ *NRA Life Member, NRA Chief Range Safety Officer, NRA Certified Pistol Instructor,, USPSA & Steel Challange NROI Range Officer, ICORE Range Officer, ,MAG 40 Graduate* *As you are, I once was, As I am, You will be.*

October 8, 2011, 09:31 AM	#16
JerryM Senior Member Join Date: April 4, 1999 Location: New Mexico Posts: 1,889	I have fired factory loads over 50 years old, and handloads over 30. The one problem I encountered was that I did not clean the case necks, and in time the bullet and case neck corroded to the extent that it raised pressures enough for primer leaks. When that happened I pulled a couple of bullets and as I did I noticed that a lot of force was required to pull the bullet. LIGHT ON! I set my seating die down just enough to move the bullet. Each time there would be a "pop." After that all was well. As a result when I use a handload over a year old I make sure I have "popped" the bullet. Since I did not load the ammo, I would pull one and see what the charge is. I would assume he did use the correct powder, and if the load was within reason for the powder I would use them. I realize you cannot be sure what a powder is visually. However, the powders normally used to load 06 in those days, such as 4895, 4064, 4320, are fairly easily identified. Jerry __________________ Ecclesiastes 12:13 ¶Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. 14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

October 8, 2011, 03:38 PM	#18
micksis86 Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2009 Posts: 420	Was using some IMR power he over day that had some rust coloured dust in it and I assumed it was from the inside of the tin as it was a fair age and metal. Anyway it shot fine, very accurat and very consistently. I didn't know that was an issue. What is the rust coloured residue and what does it mean? The powder smelt fine by the way. __________________ Never argue with morons, they will lower you down to their level and beat you with experience.

October 3, 2011, 10:33 AM	#2
kalevatom Senior Member Join Date: October 28, 2010 Location: northwestern Michigan Posts: 198	As long as they're clean, no corrosion, shoot'em. I watched a show the other night about the Barrett .50 cal rifles and the Army was using .50 cal ammo made in 1945 for training. I shoot 22LR from the '80's with no problem.

October 3, 2011, 10:57 AM	#3
mkk41 Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 2004 Posts: 283	As long as it's stored in a cool dry place , modern primers and powder have a practically indefinate shelf life. Especially military and top shelf commercial ammo , which has tarpitch-sealed bullets and lacquer sealed primers. I recently shot up some USGI .45 ammo headstamped RA 40. That's 71yrs old! Not many handloaders seal their ammo , but some do. Especially if used for hunting in foul weather. But it should still be fine.

October 3, 2011, 11:22 AM	#4
mehavey Senior Member Join Date: June 17, 2010 Location: Virginia Posts: 6,898	I'm shooting military `06 ball ammo made well over a half century ago. (And my best shooting Greek HXP is `65 vintage.) If kept out of jungle floor conditions, such ammunition may outlast us both. A more important question (for you), is: (a) What was the load your Grandfather used ? (b) What's the maker/serial number of the rifle ? (c) Anybody looked at it to assure you the headspace is OK ? ("Probably" is)

October 3, 2011, 11:40 AM	#5
wncchester Senior Member Join Date: December 1, 2002 Posts: 2,832	"How long is ammo good for? " Well, in 30-06, about a mile and a half, max, but you probably can't hit much that far out.

October 3, 2011, 12:20 PM	#6
Savage32-20 Member Join Date: September 3, 2011 Posts: 80	Your probably ok to go out and shoot them. To be on the safer side of things though (and to avoid a wasted trip to the range). I would pull 3 or 4 of them apart. 1st - smell the powder - odd smells like vinegar or citrus may indicate a problem with the powder. 2nd - weigh the powder - If your grandfather marked the box you should know what powder is in them. This way you can compare the powder in the shell to how much powder should be in there (check a loading manual). This will give you an idea of what your shooting so there is no surprise that first time you pull the trigger. Doing a few shells will also give you an overall accuracy count if they are all the same (or close). If every one is (drastically) different then you may want to reconsider. 3rd - Inspect the case - If it looks really clean inside/outside and there are no defects or watermarks then your usually good. 4th - look at the powder - does it look like it's gotten wet and caked - is there a powdery rust color to it? Then take all of this information and make an informed decision. Even though your grandfather may have been a great reloader - who knows (other than him) how he loaded the ammo and what it's intended purpose was. It may all be perfect in every way shape and form. A few shells taken apart can answer a few questions and allow you to make an informed decision.

October 3, 2011, 08:06 PM	#8
oneounceload Junior member Join Date: April 18, 2008 Location: N. Central Florida Posts: 8,518	Hell, I still have ammo I loaded in 1980 and shoot some now and again - not a big deal unless they have been stored improperly

October 3, 2011, 08:13 PM	#9
Stick_man Senior Member Join Date: October 18, 2008 Location: Salt Lake City, Utah Posts: 241	With proper loading procedures and storage, ammo should be good for a long long time... at least until you shoot it. After it has been shot, well, that's another story. Great advice too, by the way, about taking a sampling of a few of them to see what kind of loads they are or were meant to be.

October 3, 2011, 09:39 PM	#10
mouser868 Member Join Date: September 29, 2011 Posts: 56	Dad has some 22-250 shells that he loaded before I was born in 1968 that will still shoot under 1\2 inch groups at 100 yards. That's out of the Mauser action, Douglas Barreled target rifle he built that has a 12X Unyrtel scope on it. The cases for that were originally 250 Savage cases he necked down because at the time when he built the rifle there was no commercial 22-250 brass.

October 5, 2011, 08:30 AM	#11
PigFarmer Member Join Date: August 24, 2011 Location: Texas Posts: 97	Thanks for the help on this. The aneverseray of his death is coming up and I thought it would be fun to go touch them off in the Springfield he left me as well. He kept good records of what was loaded into them right on the box (something I'm going to start doing) so I know they are supposed to be 165 gr bullet with 46 gr of powder. not sure what type of powder but that looks to be right in the middle of the pack for the powders I have looked at for that round.

October 5, 2011, 07:17 PM	#12
Shotgun693 Senior Member Join Date: September 3, 2011 Location: Poteet, Texas Posts: 959	I had a bunch of 'Swasticker' marked '42 German 9mm ammo. It shot just fine although I now wish I'd kept it for trading material.

October 7, 2011, 05:54 PM	#13
boostedtt91 Senior Member Join Date: January 28, 2011 Location: Danville, Pa Posts: 520	as long as its storaged properly, it really doesnt matter how old it is to a point. I have gotten military surplus from the 1940's which shoot perfect, and also got newer ones that have been just wrapped with a cheap thin paper which doesn't protect it much and had problems with them

October 7, 2011, 10:19 PM	#14
orionengnr Senior Member Join Date: July 9, 2004 Posts: 5,177	A quick search would have answered this question, many times over. Numerous threads have addressed this already. In order to add something constructive to the converstion, I will submit this: I bought some Euro surplus 9mm ammo in bulk back around 1991. The ammo was manufactured in the 40s. I shot most of it back in the 90s, but still have some left, and it still works just fine. So the answer is, "not quite forever, but damn near".

October 8, 2011, 01:30 PM	#17
Toney Senior Member Join Date: August 17, 2005 Location: Stillwater Oklahoma Posts: 790	I've shot alot of the turk ammo made in the 30s.

October 8, 2011, 05:36 PM	#19
m&p45acp10+1 Senior Member Join Date: May 3, 2009 Location: Central Texas Posts: 3,930	I shot some .38 spcl my grampa loaded in the late 80's it shot just fine. I have fired .45 auto surplus from the 50's and all of them went bang. Oh and I am shooting some 7.62x54 R that was loaded in the early 1930's it shoots just fine, though it is corrosive. I just have to wash the barrel and chamber out before cleaning normaly. __________________ No matter how many times you do it and nothing happens it only takes something going wrong one time to kill you.

October 8, 2011, 06:20 PM	#20
Sergeant Senior Member Join Date: July 17, 2011 Posts: 124	Oldest ammo I ever shot was from the 20's. I concur with the posts about inspecting it good. Do not take a chance with anyone showing any odd signs.

October 9, 2011, 02:36 PM	#21
GM2 Senior Member Join Date: March 31, 2011 Location: Southeast, USA Posts: 350	I have some ammo that I bought in the 70's shot some of it last week and it all fired as new. I store all of My ammo in The metal military type boxes. __________________ Good character is doing the right thing when nobody's looking.

October 9, 2011, 08:28 PM	#23
thallub Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2007 Location: South Western OK Posts: 3,112	Oldest ammo i own is .45/70 military Gatling gun stuff from the late 1880s. One round in four fires. Got a large quantity of this ammo in about 1960. Until about 1975 every round fired, then it went to pot fast. Also have some .30 Army (.30/40) military ammo with dates of 1902-05. About one rou nd in three fires. Ammo thats stored in a cool dry place will last a lifetime.

October 9, 2011, 08:49 PM	#24
m&p45acp10+1 Senior Member Join Date: May 3, 2009 Location: Central Texas Posts: 3,930	i actualy have some of grampa's old surplus 30-36 ammo that is dated 1908. We shot some in the early 80s and it all fired just fine though grampa cleaned the rifle, he said it was corrosive. I am sure if I loaded some it would fire. It has been stored properly. Though I do not want to go through so much work to see if it will fire. I will stick to Reminton CoreLoct. Oh and I think those are from the mid 70's. __________________ No matter how many times you do it and nothing happens it only takes something going wrong one time to kill you.