Headspace/crimp isssue (i think) 9mm

sltintexas · July 25, 2009, 04:34 PM

newbie issue here.. I think I am having a headspace issue and crimp issue. I was watching a video which talked about checking your headspace. The video is at Click here . Around 1:45 he talks about checking headspace using your barrel.

On my 9mm factory ammo the end of the loaded cartridge is flush with the end of the barrell and falls out easily as he describes. On my reloads it isn't flush althogh its not off by much and it does not fall out of the barrell with out a pretty good tug. I have adjusted all dies (using Lee carbide deluxe pistol in a Lee turret press) following all the instructions i can find that were supplied and available via the net.

I have run a piece of brass through the dies and it appears to find and fit in the barrel fine and falls out. When I put the bullet in is when I have issues. I am using .356 lead bullets from missouri bullets. I am using a variet of brass, but I have been mainly trying with WWB brass & monarch brass.

Any suggestions?

jepp2 · July 25, 2009, 05:44 PM

things to check:

Are you getting the correct amount of flare before you seat you bullet (you want just enough to allow the bullet to start, lead will require a little more to avoid shaving off lead)

Are you crimping in the same step as seating the bullet?

Are you using a taper crimp die?

Knowing a little more will help. What OAL are you seating you bullets to? Does the brass appear swelled uniformly after the bullet is seated (indicates there is enough flare to allow the bullet to seat straight).

You want to just crimp the case enough after seating the bullet to return the case to the sized dimension. Checking with calipers can confirm this, but you can feel it with your fingers also. You shouldn't feel a lip, but don't try and crimp too much. The sized case is what holds the bullet in place.

Farmland · July 25, 2009, 07:10 PM

I was thinking you should check your OAL too. I mean unless you are crunching your cases I'm not sure why they wouldn't fit while your factor ammo does.

sltintexas · July 25, 2009, 07:11 PM

more details:
using .356 9mm lead bullets for missouri bullets
COL of my reloads are 1.125. The factory ones I'm comparing to is 1.16.
Barrel I'm using is out of an Arcus 9mm which is basically a browning hi power clone.

I am using the lee deluxe carbine pistol 9mm dies which contain 4 dies. These are the dies . It has a seperate crimp die. This one is labeled as factory crimp which I think is more of a roll crimp..but I admit I am ignorant on that subject.

In learning I've done from extreme flare to barely flared. Currently I am using barely any flare. in fact I'm having a hard time telling its flared at all... but the bullet goes in and no shaving, so I guess I"m ok.

Let me know if anyone has any other questions.

sltintexas · July 25, 2009, 07:40 PM

some where in the process I am gaining .002 in width towards the base.

If I were crunching it would have to be during the crimp. That is really the only time I feel any resistance at all.

I'll play around with it some and see what I can find.

sltintexas · July 25, 2009, 09:01 PM

I think it the bullets. I remove the bullet from a factory monarch bullet and ran it through the dies and it fit in the barrel perfectly and came out perfectly as in the video. It is .355.

I did the same thing with the same piece of brass and a .356 bullet and it had the issue. its not sticking up a lot more.. but it is a difference.

SQUAREKNOT · July 25, 2009, 10:08 PM

I have been having the same problem with .45. My midrange loads are
showing signs of high pressure on the primers. I think I might have figured it out. I may be over crimping and the round is starting into the barrel. This is increasing the presssure as the case and bullet are in the barrel too far. On firing (I think) the primer is backing out a few thousandths and getting slammed to look like high pressure. I have been crimping by feel BUT the leverage with the press is probably doing more than I think. More testing.
For the record I have just started to crimp my bullets for the first time in 40+ years. I am the problem and this might be yours too. I using 230 gr LRN

Swindler1 · July 25, 2009, 10:35 PM

Its all about the bullet profile.

jepp2 · July 25, 2009, 10:53 PM

Just as a reference, I use a lot of .356 lead cast bullets. I feel more resistance seating the bullet than I do when I taper crimp. I am not using a Lee FCD, so I'm not sure how much difference that makes. I'm just closing the flare.

The .356 diameter is common for lead, so I question if that is really your problem. I find the Lyman cartridge gage
(http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct...tNumber=595577
to be one of the most useful tools on my bench. I know you can use the barrel also, but the gage is always handy.

Make sure your roll crimp is backed off on your seating die!

sltintexas · July 25, 2009, 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jepp2

Just as a reference, I use a lot of .356 lead cast bullets. I feel more resistance seating the bullet than I do when I taper crimp. I am not using a Lee FCD, so I'm not sure how much difference that makes. I'm just closing the flare.

The .356 diameter is common for lead, so I question if that is really your problem. I find the Lyman cartridge gage
(http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct...tNumber=595577
to be one of the most useful tools on my bench. I know you can use the barrel also, but the gage is always handy.

Make sure your roll crimp is backed off on your seating die!

I agree about it being a common size, thats what has me baffled. I'll see if I can figure out the roll crimp on the sizing die. thx for the suggestion and I'll take a look at that cartridge gauge.

Quote:

Originally Posted by swindler1

Its all about the bullet profile.

to your point, I just tried my 147 grain bullet and they worked fine!

July 25, 2009, 04:34 PM	#1
sltintexas Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2005 Posts: 171	Headspace/crimp isssue (i think) 9mm newbie issue here.. I think I am having a headspace issue and crimp issue. I was watching a video which talked about checking your headspace. The video is at Click here . Around 1:45 he talks about checking headspace using your barrel. On my 9mm factory ammo the end of the loaded cartridge is flush with the end of the barrell and falls out easily as he describes. On my reloads it isn't flush althogh its not off by much and it does not fall out of the barrell with out a pretty good tug. I have adjusted all dies (using Lee carbide deluxe pistol in a Lee turret press) following all the instructions i can find that were supplied and available via the net. I have run a piece of brass through the dies and it appears to find and fit in the barrel fine and falls out. When I put the bullet in is when I have issues. I am using .356 lead bullets from missouri bullets. I am using a variet of brass, but I have been mainly trying with WWB brass & monarch brass. Any suggestions?

July 25, 2009, 05:44 PM	#2
jepp2 Senior Member Join Date: December 24, 2008 Location: Loveland, CO Posts: 1,476	things to check: Are you getting the correct amount of flare before you seat you bullet (you want just enough to allow the bullet to start, lead will require a little more to avoid shaving off lead) Are you crimping in the same step as seating the bullet? Are you using a taper crimp die? Knowing a little more will help. What OAL are you seating you bullets to? Does the brass appear swelled uniformly after the bullet is seated (indicates there is enough flare to allow the bullet to seat straight). You want to just crimp the case enough after seating the bullet to return the case to the sized dimension. Checking with calipers can confirm this, but you can feel it with your fingers also. You shouldn't feel a lip, but don't try and crimp too much. The sized case is what holds the bullet in place.

July 25, 2009, 07:10 PM	#3
Farmland Senior Member Join Date: July 5, 2009 Posts: 869	I was thinking you should check your OAL too. I mean unless you are crunching your cases I'm not sure why they wouldn't fit while your factor ammo does.

July 25, 2009, 07:11 PM	#4
sltintexas Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2005 Posts: 171	more details: using .356 9mm lead bullets for missouri bullets COL of my reloads are 1.125. The factory ones I'm comparing to is 1.16. Barrel I'm using is out of an Arcus 9mm which is basically a browning hi power clone. I am using the lee deluxe carbine pistol 9mm dies which contain 4 dies. These are the dies . It has a seperate crimp die. This one is labeled as factory crimp which I think is more of a roll crimp..but I admit I am ignorant on that subject. In learning I've done from extreme flare to barely flared. Currently I am using barely any flare. in fact I'm having a hard time telling its flared at all... but the bullet goes in and no shaving, so I guess I"m ok. Let me know if anyone has any other questions.

July 25, 2009, 07:40 PM	#5
sltintexas Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2005 Posts: 171	some where in the process I am gaining .002 in width towards the base. If I were crunching it would have to be during the crimp. That is really the only time I feel any resistance at all. I'll play around with it some and see what I can find.

July 25, 2009, 09:01 PM	#6
sltintexas Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2005 Posts: 171	I think it the bullets. I remove the bullet from a factory monarch bullet and ran it through the dies and it fit in the barrel perfectly and came out perfectly as in the video. It is .355. I did the same thing with the same piece of brass and a .356 bullet and it had the issue. its not sticking up a lot more.. but it is a difference.

July 25, 2009, 10:08 PM	#7
SQUAREKNOT Senior Member Join Date: July 16, 2008 Posts: 263	I have been having the same problem with .45. My midrange loads are showing signs of high pressure on the primers. I think I might have figured it out. I may be over crimping and the round is starting into the barrel. This is increasing the presssure as the case and bullet are in the barrel too far. On firing (I think) the primer is backing out a few thousandths and getting slammed to look like high pressure. I have been crimping by feel BUT the leverage with the press is probably doing more than I think. More testing. For the record I have just started to crimp my bullets for the first time in 40+ years. I am the problem and this might be yours too. I using 230 gr LRN

July 25, 2009, 10:35 PM	#8
Swindler1 Member Join Date: December 25, 2007 Posts: 38	Its all about the bullet profile.

July 25, 2009, 10:53 PM	#9
jepp2 Senior Member Join Date: December 24, 2008 Location: Loveland, CO Posts: 1,476	Just as a reference, I use a lot of .356 lead cast bullets. I feel more resistance seating the bullet than I do when I taper crimp. I am not using a Lee FCD, so I'm not sure how much difference that makes. I'm just closing the flare. The .356 diameter is common for lead, so I question if that is really your problem. I find the Lyman cartridge gage (http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct...tNumber=595577 to be one of the most useful tools on my bench. I know you can use the barrel also, but the gage is always handy. Make sure your roll crimp is backed off on your seating die!