Reloading new winchester 223 brass.. bullets wont fit?

shovel99 · October 8, 2011, 07:23 PM

Hi Gents,
Hopefully someone can give me guidance!

Folks here gave me great advice about equipment and how to use it for reloading about a year ago, and I am eternally grateful for that. Reloading has been a resounding success and great savings, and accurate, too! Thanks Beaucoups.

I have been reloading 38, 9mm and 45 acp on a lee challenger single stage press successfully for about a year and trying to get started loading rifle ammo.

Today, I attempted to load a dozen new winchester 223 casings with 55 grain hornady jacketed sp's. After setting up both the full length sizing die and the collet sizing die (per factory instructions) and running the casings through both, the mouths are too small to accept the base of the bullets. I tried the Lee camfering tool (sp?) which helped a bit... the top rims looked a bit "fat" and irregular".. but the bullets do not slip into the shells like pistol and revolver bullets do. Before ruining these, I thought I would get help.

I have only reloaded fired pistol casings, so the shells start out larger than the bullet size and are then fired... so I am guessing that this may be the issue.

Thanks for everyone's help.

Jerry45 · October 8, 2011, 07:37 PM

Nope! Bottleneck rifle bullets don’t fit/slide into the cases. They must be pressed in. Hold the bullet in place while you raise the ram and push the bullet and case up into the bullet seating die. The bullet WILL be pressed into the case.

jepp2 · October 8, 2011, 08:09 PM

Quote:

After setting up both the full length sizing die and the collet sizing die (per factory instructions) and running the casings through both

This isn't causing your current problem, but if you full size your cases, you shouldn't run them through the collet die. After you have fired them in your bolt action rifle, the collet die is an excellent option.

shovel99 · October 8, 2011, 08:19 PM

I knew some nice knowledgeable person would have the answer!

Do I presume that "bottleneck" casings includes 30-30, 30-06 and 243?

My first batch of 30-30 had the other problem: they had been fired, and after using the collette sizer ... apparently too gingerly .... the bullets just dropped through the opening into the powder! ;-(.

So same fix?

Thanks so much for the assist.

Paul

mrawesome22 · October 8, 2011, 08:39 PM

Shovel, if the bullets are just sliding in using the collet die, you need to push harder on the press handle.

chris in va · October 8, 2011, 09:10 PM

Unless the 223 bullets are boat tail, you'll discover they need to be held in place by your fingers until the ram pushes them into the case by force. There will be a little resistance for a split second then they'll seat.

I'd start from scratch with your dies and set them up again exactly how the instructions tell you to.

jepp2 · October 8, 2011, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Do I presume that "bottleneck" casings includes 30-30, 30-06 and 243?

Yes, those are bottleneck cartridges.

Most handgun are straight wall, but there are some exceptions like 22 Jet, 357 Sig, and others.

shovel99 · October 8, 2011, 10:35 PM

YeeeeeHaaaaa! Thanks guys... Woooo Hooo... I just loaded a dozen 223 and it worked flawlessly, just as jerry45 said. And Chris in VA... I did set them up again exactly per the specs.

This is a beautiful thing. I have been thrashing around with attempts at loading 30-30 for months ... attempting to replicate the experience of loading handgun cartridges and the bullets either falling in or.. not fitting.

What is interesting is that I spent hours searching several good gun blogs like TFR and others on the topic of bullets dropping in ... 30-30's. I found many novice reloaders having similar experiences.. and never found the straight, sweet truth before tonight... from you guys.

I have had the dies, bullets, powder, primers for 30-30, 30-06, 243, and 223.. all sitting collecting dust waiting for this great moment.

Thanks again.

Shovel.... Paul

Jerry45 · October 9, 2011, 12:41 PM

You will find that when using the Lee Neck Size die it takes more pressure to neck size 30/06 and 30-30 than it does .223. It also takes a little more effort to full length size cases the larger they get. As with anything new you’ll start getting a feel for what is right as you go along.

If you’re shooting the .223 in a bolt gun you don’t need to crimp. In a semi auto some people do some don’t. I do! Better safe than sorry. I don’t crimp my bolt gun ammo.

Hope that helps,

Jerry

shovel99 · October 9, 2011, 08:31 PM

The 223's are for an SW MP15. It looked and felt like a pretty darn tight "interference fit" in the new win brass, so I will give these a try without crimping. With minimal recoil in the 15, and stack loaded ammo, there isn't the risk of pulling the ammo apart or pushing the bullets down into the casings like in the 30 30. I will crimp all of those.

I will probably colette size the 30-06 and 243, pass on the factory crimp on first 10 rounds...and fire a couple and measure the OAL of the loaded rounds in those bolt guns to see if recoil is pulling them apart. If no... continue. We are not hunting with anything yet.

But this was really, really helpful, Jerry45.

Have great day and week!
'
Paul

m&p45acp10+1 · October 9, 2011, 09:00 PM

Shovel it is not necessary to crimp .223 for most AR platform rifles. A lot of my friends shoot my reloads, and rave about how accurate they shoot. Not one is crimped. If you have the Lee Deluxe Die set your bullet seater is the Dead Length Seating Die. It does not crimp anyway.

Oh and shooting an AR you will not be using the Collet die. You will have to F/L Resize every case.

capreppy · October 10, 2011, 11:10 PM

Try shooting some without a crimp. You may find out you don't need to. I've not crimped any of mine (never purchased a crimp die and not planning on it) and they shoot perfectly fine.

October 8, 2011, 07:23 PM	#1
shovel99 Retired Screen Name Join Date: July 25, 2005 Posts: 29	Reloading new winchester 223 brass.. bullets wont fit? Hi Gents, Hopefully someone can give me guidance! Folks here gave me great advice about equipment and how to use it for reloading about a year ago, and I am eternally grateful for that. Reloading has been a resounding success and great savings, and accurate, too! Thanks Beaucoups. I have been reloading 38, 9mm and 45 acp on a lee challenger single stage press successfully for about a year and trying to get started loading rifle ammo. Today, I attempted to load a dozen new winchester 223 casings with 55 grain hornady jacketed sp's. After setting up both the full length sizing die and the collet sizing die (per factory instructions) and running the casings through both, the mouths are too small to accept the base of the bullets. I tried the Lee camfering tool (sp?) which helped a bit... the top rims looked a bit "fat" and irregular".. but the bullets do not slip into the shells like pistol and revolver bullets do. Before ruining these, I thought I would get help. I have only reloaded fired pistol casings, so the shells start out larger than the bullet size and are then fired... so I am guessing that this may be the issue. Thanks for everyone's help.

October 8, 2011, 07:37 PM	#2
Jerry45 Senior Member Join Date: April 18, 2000 Location: Metairie, Louisiana Posts: 890	Nope! Bottleneck rifle bullets don’t fit/slide into the cases. They must be pressed in. Hold the bullet in place while you raise the ram and push the bullet and case up into the bullet seating die. The bullet WILL be pressed into the case. __________________ Guns are not dangerous! People are! RKBA!

October 8, 2011, 08:19 PM	#4
shovel99 Retired Screen Name Join Date: July 25, 2005 Posts: 29	Thanks Jerry, Jepp2 I knew some nice knowledgeable person would have the answer! Do I presume that "bottleneck" casings includes 30-30, 30-06 and 243? My first batch of 30-30 had the other problem: they had been fired, and after using the collette sizer ... apparently too gingerly .... the bullets just dropped through the opening into the powder! ;-(. So same fix? Thanks so much for the assist. Paul

October 8, 2011, 10:35 PM	#8
shovel99 Retired Screen Name Join Date: July 25, 2005 Posts: 29	Great advice, guys, works! YeeeeeHaaaaa! Thanks guys... Woooo Hooo... I just loaded a dozen 223 and it worked flawlessly, just as jerry45 said. And Chris in VA... I did set them up again exactly per the specs. This is a beautiful thing. I have been thrashing around with attempts at loading 30-30 for months ... attempting to replicate the experience of loading handgun cartridges and the bullets either falling in or.. not fitting. What is interesting is that I spent hours searching several good gun blogs like TFR and others on the topic of bullets dropping in ... 30-30's. I found many novice reloaders having similar experiences.. and never found the straight, sweet truth before tonight... from you guys. I have had the dies, bullets, powder, primers for 30-30, 30-06, 243, and 223.. all sitting collecting dust waiting for this great moment. Thanks again. Shovel.... Paul

October 9, 2011, 12:41 PM	#9
Jerry45 Senior Member Join Date: April 18, 2000 Location: Metairie, Louisiana Posts: 890	You will find that when using the Lee Neck Size die it takes more pressure to neck size 30/06 and 30-30 than it does .223. It also takes a little more effort to full length size cases the larger they get. As with anything new you’ll start getting a feel for what is right as you go along. If you’re shooting the .223 in a bolt gun you don’t need to crimp. In a semi auto some people do some don’t. I do! Better safe than sorry. I don’t crimp my bolt gun ammo. Hope that helps, Jerry __________________ Guns are not dangerous! People are! RKBA!

October 8, 2011, 08:39 PM	#5
mrawesome22 Senior Member Join Date: November 9, 2005 Location: Ohio, Appalachia's foothills. Posts: 3,779	Shovel, if the bullets are just sliding in using the collet die, you need to push harder on the press handle.

October 8, 2011, 09:10 PM	#6
chris in va Senior Member Join Date: December 26, 2004 Location: Louisville KY Posts: 13,806	Unless the 223 bullets are boat tail, you'll discover they need to be held in place by your fingers until the ram pushes them into the case by force. There will be a little resistance for a split second then they'll seat. I'd start from scratch with your dies and set them up again exactly how the instructions tell you to.

October 9, 2011, 08:31 PM	#10
shovel99 Retired Screen Name Join Date: July 25, 2005 Posts: 29	Thanks!! The 223's are for an SW MP15. It looked and felt like a pretty darn tight "interference fit" in the new win brass, so I will give these a try without crimping. With minimal recoil in the 15, and stack loaded ammo, there isn't the risk of pulling the ammo apart or pushing the bullets down into the casings like in the 30 30. I will crimp all of those. I will probably colette size the 30-06 and 243, pass on the factory crimp on first 10 rounds...and fire a couple and measure the OAL of the loaded rounds in those bolt guns to see if recoil is pulling them apart. If no... continue. We are not hunting with anything yet. But this was really, really helpful, Jerry45. Have great day and week! ' Paul

October 9, 2011, 09:00 PM	#11
m&p45acp10+1 Senior Member Join Date: May 3, 2009 Location: Central Texas Posts: 3,930	Shovel it is not necessary to crimp .223 for most AR platform rifles. A lot of my friends shoot my reloads, and rave about how accurate they shoot. Not one is crimped. If you have the Lee Deluxe Die set your bullet seater is the Dead Length Seating Die. It does not crimp anyway. Oh and shooting an AR you will not be using the Collet die. You will have to F/L Resize every case. __________________ No matter how many times you do it and nothing happens it only takes something going wrong one time to kill you.

October 10, 2011, 11:10 PM	#12
capreppy Member Join Date: February 5, 2011 Location: North Fort Worth, TX (Saginaw) Posts: 44	Try shooting some without a crimp. You may find out you don't need to. I've not crimped any of mine (never purchased a crimp die and not planning on it) and they shoot perfectly fine.