Archery question ...

[Brian Pfleuger]

I hunt deer in an area that is surrounded (within 100 yards in some places) by some of the most rabid anti-hunters in the world.

Your best bet is to only take shots on a completely calm animal, at close range, and be absolutely certain that you're going for the front-half/middle of the lungs, trying not to hit the opposite leg. Don't take heart shots, you don't need to hit the heart for quick kills and I've been told (and my experience would seem to bear it out) that heart shot deer run farther. Theory is that it hurts more, so they don't stop until they die whereas double lung shots without the heart don't tend to hurt as much so they stop and look back. I don't know, but it does seem to be true.

It might also be because heart shots also tend to hit heavy leg bone, which probably does hurt a lot more than "just" a hole through the chest.

In any case, a completely calm deer that has no idea your there and takes an arrow through both lungs will OFTEN run only 20-50 yards and stop to look for what bit it.

Notice that I say "often". No guarantees, ever.

In any case, you're hunting legally. Come what may. If you know the folks nearby and are on good terms with them, let them know what you'll be doing and ask permission to recover/track deer before it happens. If not, or they refuse, and the deer goes onto and does not leave their property, contact Environmental Conservation or local LE and let them deal with it.

[shortwave]

Excellent post Brian...especially the info about calling your local DNA or LE.

Here in Ohio, many have the false impression that if you shoot an animal and it runs from land you are legal to hunt on to posted land or land you don't have permission to hunt on that it's ok to track that animal without land owners permission. It's not and this can get you a fat trespassing ticket.

If the scenario of a shot deer running from land you are legal to hunt to posted or land you don't have permission to hunt, either get permission to track from the land owner or get ahold of your local game warden.

I had to do this on a nice buck that went onto an anti-hunter's property and piled up no more than 75yds onto his property. This guy owned no more then 6 acres but his property adjoins probably 300 acres of deep woods in which I had permission to hunt. Just my luck that buck ran on his property and when I started tracking I ran into the anti's heavily posted fence line. I stopped, called the property owner that I had permission to hunt on and explained the situation. He told me how anti-hunting the guy was and strongly suggested I either call DNR or forget about the deer. Game warden came out, knocked on their door , talked to a lady and retrieved my deer for me. I never hunted within 300-400yds of that property again.

[Gunplummer]

I have to agree with most of the posters, it would be a miracle for an arrow to drop a deer on the spot. A rifle you can call 100%. There is no argument about that. I actually lived in a shotgun area for a while and shot quite a few deer there. Some of the neighbors were dead set against bows, and with good reason. * Note previous post of deer running around with an arrow through it's neck.* The place was a hotbed for lyme disease and even the people that did not hunt were O.K. with me sitting closer to their house with a shotgun than the law allowed (Legal with permission from owners). I laid out a fire zone and explained it to them. I also only hunted during the day and during the week when no one was around. It is amazing the way deer move around during the day in populated areas because the neighborhood is quiet. I think if you never made an effort to know your neighbors and approach them only when you want something, you are going to have trouble. Good luck with that.

[Jim Watson]

A friend lived in the city limits but had a large lot and several acres of undeveloped property behind it. He routinely fed deer up til the legal limit before hunting season and arrowed them during hunting season. Had a hook to hang them from in his garage to dress them while in out of the cold wind.

He did not lose any, but he was not burdened by unpleasant neighbors.

[globemaster3]

Guess nobody caught the Rambo reference....

It really sounds like you need to get permission in advance from your neighbors or beg off trying to hunt there. I definitely recommend against ticking them off just for a hunting opportunity. Remember, you have to live next to those people. They could make your life difficult. If they are anti-hunting, and your deer drops on their property, even the LEO or Game Warden knocking to take care of the problem still won't bode well for friendly relations...

[buck460XVR]

Originally posted by Brian Pfleuger:

Notice that I say "often". No guarantees, ever.

In any case, you're hunting legally. Come what may. If you know the folks nearby and are on good terms with them, let them know what you'll be doing and ask permission to recover/track deer before it happens. If not, or they refuse, and the deer goes onto and does not leave their property, contact Environmental Conservation or local LE and let them deal with it.

You are correct......No Guarantees. While calling the warden or local LEO and having them knock on the door instead of you, MAY get you your deer, in my state it is not a guarantee. The land owner is not legally obligated to allow a warden onto their property to retrieve a dead animal unless it is evidence in a crime. The property owner is not bound to retrieve the animal because of wanton waste because he did not shoot it in the first place. If the land owner wants your deer to lay there and rot he has that right.....or he can allow the warden to retrieve it and donate it to someone on the "in need" list.....or he can ask the warden for a carcass tag and use the meat himself or tag it and donate it to the local food pantry. The landowner can legally tag the animal himself if he has a legal hunting license, even tho he did not shoot it. I know this because this subject comes up on "Warden Night" in nearly everyone of the hunter safety classes I help teach. That's why we also teach.....get permission first!

[Brian Pfleuger]

Absolutely true, but a good many folks bow to the authority of the warden, real or perceived and, if they don't, such is life. Go shoot another one. The anti-hunter can rest on his principles and enjoy the bloating deer in his yard.

Sometimes there is no getting permission and no hope of "good relations". Do your best, live with the chances or don't hunt there.

I lost one the year before last. I assume I made a bad shot but we'll never be sure. Followed the trail to the edge of Anti-Hunter Fantasy Land and walked away. Called LE and told them, asked them to call me if anyone reported anything. I never heard back.

[Sure Shot Mc Gee]

Few years back when I preferred a bow. Well more than a few years really. But when I did hunt with one I discovered something unusual. It appeared to me when a deer was completely relaxed in his/her surroundings. Chance's were if I made a good un-noticable shot on it. (lung &/or top of its heart.) under 30 yards. I took notice the way they behaved. I doubt they knew they were hit even. Just totally confused. By the time they realized something was wrong. It was to late for them to go more than a few feet before piling up. More than not they fell within a few feet where they were originally hit. But those few I shot that were very alert. You could bet I was going to do some walking to find them. Regardless of how good my shot placement was. Seems like they were just set to take off if they felt threatened by anything. Even a pesky deer fly.
Those days I bow hunted the woods. I carried a Browning 70-lb Mirage w/ 4" overdraw. Shooting 28" 2213s aluminum shafts with NAP Thunderhead 100 Broadheads w/carbon inserts and 3" 3-feathered shaft. Very fast for its time. And probably still faster than many bows seen today. My advice OP. Shoot the one's that seem very relaxed and moping along. Those that appear skiddish and very alert. No matter how big or small. Give them a pass. Remember left unmolested. Perhaps your next encounter with that same animal will be under much better circumstances.

S/S

[buck460XVR]

Originally posted by Brian Pfleuger:

I lost one the year before last. I assume I made a bad shot but we'll never be sure. Followed the trail to the edge of Anti-Hunter Fantasy Land and walked away. Called LE and told them, asked them to call me if anyone reported anything. I never heard back

Happens more than folks care to admit......especially on the internet where so many folks "never miss'' or have never had to blood trail a deer, much less lose one.

But for most of us folks that it has happened to, it wasn't because we were hunting such a small parcel that it was inevitable. If one is hunting a 1-1 1/2 acre parcel with a house and a yard on it, odds are, even a completely relaxed deer, double lung hit will make it next door to the neighbors. Remember....a acre is smaller than the football field next to the high school.

[Brian Pfleuger]

In my case, the situation is forced on us by the Anti loons. The deer population of the small village is about 10x the maximum healthy, sustainable herd and the vocal minority won't allow any functional solution inside the village limits. So, we (through a program run by Cornell University) hunt the edges. Obviously, we'd prefer to be back away from those properties but sometimes you just have to be in a certain place if you want to hunt certain deer.

Speaking of the Cornell program, I have to go back to a statement made in the OP...

You speak of "smallish deer, 125-150 pounds".... well, part of the Cornell program is that every deer killed has to be weighed at an official check station. There have been hundreds of deer killed, I think the program is over the 600 mark now but it might be 400, in any case, a lot. As of previous to last season, as I haven't heard the numbers from that season yet, the largest doe taken in the program was 149 pounds field dressed and the largest buck just over 200 pounds. These are NY deer, which while not the biggest in America are certainly bigger than most. The average adult doe is almost exactly 100 pounds, dressed. Ours have ranged from 95-109 pounds and the average buck (not your big daddy 6 year old 12-pt) is about 125 pounds dressed.

Most people dramatically over-estimate deer weights. I'm pretty sure they do it because "Jo" shot a buck that he SAID was 200 pounds and "Bob" shot one that was bigger, so Bob's deer must have been 250, when the truth is that neither of them ever saw a scale and "Jo's" deer was 125 and Bob's was 150.

Long story short, few places are going to have "smallish" deer in the 125-150 average live weight range. That would be average to high-average for NY and on the high side for most of American Whitetail deer.

[NoSecondBest]

Brian is 100% spot on as to deer weight. I've been saying this for years. I have to laugh when someone tells me they "shot a small doe, about 150 pounds" or "a small buck, about 150 pounds". I've seen a LOT of them go on the scales and they are grossly over estimated. Just like all the 140 class deer that get shot that are actually 90-120 gross score.

[Gunplummer]

I have to agree with the weight estimates being wrong most of the time. I guess the farther you drag a deer, the heavier it gets. As to why there are real weight differences, that is up in the air. I hunt West Virginia every year and the weight of deer in the area we hunt makes no sense. Sometimes the DNR will check the weight/age of the first couple hundred at a check station. I took a spike down that weighed 140 dressed out and was 2 1/2 years old. I have taken 8 pointers that weighed 130+. Recently I got a 6 point that I picked up by the feet and set in my truck. I doubt it was over 80 pounds. My buddy shot a 4 point the year before that was the same way. We do still see heavy deer in the area. A genetic influence?

[shortwave]

You are correct......No Guarantees. While calling the warden or local LEO and having them knock on the door instead of you, MAY get you your deer, in my state it is not a guarantee

Here in Ohio, a shot but untagged deer still belongs to the state so LE can go on private property to retrieve it.

These are the kind of scenario's/laws hunters need to research in the state in which they hunt BEFORE they find themselves in the situation. Things are often very different from state to state.