OK, finally bought a .58 Civil War repro

okiefarmer · March 19, 2008, 04:34 PM

Been watching for a spell. Couldn't ever "pull the trigger" on one as each time I would see another that looked better or cheaper at auction. This one made by Ranson. I see alot of them are Zoli's. Is there a big difference? Bought it strictly as a shooter, I believe in shooting them, not hanging in the wall to sell later and make a profit on. Want to have fun with it.

This one is rifled, two band repro. Any preferences on bullet weight. Have not bought a mould yet, but I do cast everything I shoot, both smokeless and black powder. Will watch for one now.

TIA,
Okie out

DrLaw · March 19, 2008, 04:37 PM

Ranson???

The Doc is out now.

Hawg · March 19, 2008, 04:50 PM

My .58 3 band Enfield shoots minute of five gallon bucket at 300 yds. with a Lyman traditional minie and 70 grs. of powder

okiefarmer · March 19, 2008, 05:07 PM

I thought I had seen this maker several times on GB and AuctionArms listings. If it is premissable, here is the link for the auciton on GB

http://www.forthehunt.com/Auction/Vi...?Item=95176361

Hawg · March 19, 2008, 06:13 PM

I don't know anything about Ranson but their Zouave is ACWSA approved.

arcticap · March 19, 2008, 06:55 PM

My 1980 gun Digest lists several Zouave importers, but not Ranson.
But it does mention that the specific details of each rifle varies with the importer, including the price, the caliber (.59), with a 22 inch carbine model and even a 20 gauge barrel was available separately.

Raider2000 · March 19, 2008, 07:45 PM

The Zouave is a fine shooter, with a charge of 60gr. FFG & a 500gr. .575 Mini cast from a Lee Mould makes for a super accurate shot out to 100 yards & beyond.

okiefarmer · March 19, 2008, 09:08 PM

Well, thanks all. Was really surprised that the name didn't ring a bell with anyone. I really knolw little about them, just that I wanted one, they look like a hoot to shoot. It is Italian made, apparently where many of the repros are made, perhaps Ranson is the importer. I'll look it over a little better when I get it. Most Zolis on the auction boards had been bringing close to $400, and for $235, it made more sense if it was going to be a shooter, unless Ranson has crooked barrels.

arcticap · March 19, 2008, 09:14 PM

I found this maker:

Quote:

Ranson Italia Gardone VT (Brescia) 1979

This is the name of the gunsmith/gunsmithing outfit from an Italian gunsmith database listing all from 1945-80.

http://www.earmi.it/armi/database/armieri.htm (It's 12th from the bottom of the page).

okiefarmer · March 20, 2008, 01:48 PM

OK, surfed around and it looks like some shoot mini's and some shoot RB. .570 seems to stand out as a standard, but it seems like .562 would be a good size. I thought the general rule of thumb was if using .010 cotton patching, then one needs to back off on the OAL size exactly that much on the RB. Are most using .005 cotton patching and using .570 balls? Or does it make that much difference, just use the proper patch for the ball being used. Still on a learning curve, but want to do it halfway right.

TIA

sundance44s · March 20, 2008, 02:16 PM

Okiefarmer ...ya beat me to the draw pard ...Nice buy ..I had watched this rifle fail to sell twice ...the price finally got where I decided to buy it and ..it`s gone ..you got it ...LOL ..I`ll find another ..I hear they are good shooters ..also called the Mississippi rifle .
Stock is a little rough , but a good hand at sanding and staining ..wouldn`t have any problem with it .

Hawg · March 20, 2008, 03:16 PM

The Mississippi and Zouave are different rifles.

sundance44s · March 20, 2008, 04:19 PM

I didn`t know that Hawg ...they sure look alike ..Who made the Mississippi Rifle ? ..does anyone make a repro ?

Hawg · March 20, 2008, 04:39 PM

They were U.S. 1841 contract rifles made by a variety of makers. Tryon, Robbins & Lawrence, Whitney, Remington, etc. They bear a resemblance but the butt, patchbox, nosepiece are all different. Originals were made in .54 but 8,879 were rebored to 58 during the War Against Northern Aggression. Repros abound.

sundance44s · March 20, 2008, 04:46 PM

Thanks Hawg ..I just found a repro here ..patch box sure looks the same ...well shaped the same ..bigger on the Mississippi rifle http://www.blockaderunner.com/Catalog/catpg1.htm

Hawg · March 20, 2008, 05:40 PM

Here's an original Zouave. http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...?Item=95274159

And an original Mississippi. http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...?Item=94897782

eastbank · March 20, 2008, 08:36 PM

i shoot a navy zouave .58. the best bullet for mine has been the lyman .575213 hollow base mini cast with pure lead, and 65gr. 3f dupont black powder. fill the hollow base of the mini with crisco and shoot away, with good sights and a trigger job my rifle will do 2-3 inch groups at 100yds. eastbank.

arcticap · March 21, 2008, 12:57 AM

Quote:

OK, surfed around and it looks like some shoot mini's and some shoot RB. .570 seems to stand out as a standard, but it seems like .562 would be a good size. I thought the general rule of thumb was if using .010 cotton patching, then one needs to back off on the OAL size exactly that much on the RB. Are most using .005 cotton patching and using .570 balls? Or does it make that much difference, just use the proper patch for the ball being used. Still on a learning curve, but want to do it halfway right.

TIA

When it comes to rifles, most folks use a ball that is .010 under bore size, but start with a .015 patch to fill in the rifling grooves. If the barrel has deep groove rifling which is usually deeper than .010, then a .018 pillow ticking patch can be tried. If a .015 patch loads too tight, then switch to the .010 patch and compare the accuracy results. A percentage of the extra patch material gets compressed when it's rammed, so the little extra thickness fills in the rifling grooves, and helps to impart spin to the ball by helping to grab it better when it's fired.
A .005 patch is almost like not using a patch at all. It's very thin, will not hold much patch lube, may tear on loading and ramming, and may cut, burn or frey with a moderately heavy powder charge. The .005 patch is usually only used alone if absolutely necessary because of an extra tight bore or a if a larger than ideal ball is being used.
They are often used in single shot pistols with light powder charges, or in combination with another patch to increase the overall patch thickness to help fill in the rifling if a better patch thickness isn't readily available.
Rifles usually prefer to be loaded with a tighter patched round ball for better accuracy and less patch blowout will occur, especially with the bigger bores using higher powder loads.
So start with a .015 patch and a .570 round ball unless there's a looseness problem or deeper groove rifling, or using round balls that are undersized for the bore diameter. Rifling is almost always at least .005 deep, and more commonly .007 -.010 deep. So try to fill in the rifling grooves with compressed patch material upon loading.
Using lubed patches is also helpful.

March 19, 2008, 04:34 PM	#1
okiefarmer Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 2006 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 381	OK, finally bought a .58 Civil War repro Been watching for a spell. Couldn't ever "pull the trigger" on one as each time I would see another that looked better or cheaper at auction. This one made by Ranson. I see alot of them are Zoli's. Is there a big difference? Bought it strictly as a shooter, I believe in shooting them, not hanging in the wall to sell later and make a profit on. Want to have fun with it. This one is rifled, two band repro. Any preferences on bullet weight. Have not bought a mould yet, but I do cast everything I shoot, both smokeless and black powder. Will watch for one now. TIA, Okie out

March 19, 2008, 04:37 PM	#2
DrLaw Senior Member Join Date: June 3, 2007 Location: Wild Western Illinois Posts: 559	??? Ranson??? The Doc is out now.

March 19, 2008, 04:50 PM	#3
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,188	My .58 3 band Enfield shoots minute of five gallon bucket at 300 yds. with a Lyman traditional minie and 70 grs. of powder

March 19, 2008, 05:07 PM	#4
okiefarmer Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 2006 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 381	I thought I had seen this maker several times on GB and AuctionArms listings. If it is premissable, here is the link for the auciton on GB http://www.forthehunt.com/Auction/Vi...?Item=95176361

March 19, 2008, 06:13 PM	#5
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,188	I don't know anything about Ranson but their Zouave is ACWSA approved.

March 19, 2008, 06:55 PM	#6
arcticap Senior Member Join Date: March 15, 2005 Location: Central Connecticut Posts: 3,166	My 1980 gun Digest lists several Zouave importers, but not Ranson. But it does mention that the specific details of each rifle varies with the importer, including the price, the caliber (.59), with a 22 inch carbine model and even a 20 gauge barrel was available separately.

March 19, 2008, 07:45 PM	#7
Raider2000 Senior Member Join Date: July 23, 2007 Location: Virginia Posts: 719	The Zouave is a fine shooter, with a charge of 60gr. FFG & a 500gr. .575 Mini cast from a Lee Mould makes for a super accurate shot out to 100 yards & beyond.

March 19, 2008, 09:08 PM	#8
okiefarmer Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 2006 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 381	Well, thanks all. Was really surprised that the name didn't ring a bell with anyone. I really knolw little about them, just that I wanted one, they look like a hoot to shoot. It is Italian made, apparently where many of the repros are made, perhaps Ranson is the importer. I'll look it over a little better when I get it. Most Zolis on the auction boards had been bringing close to $400, and for $235, it made more sense if it was going to be a shooter, unless Ranson has crooked barrels.

March 20, 2008, 01:48 PM	#10
okiefarmer Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 2006 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 381	OK, surfed around and it looks like some shoot mini's and some shoot RB. .570 seems to stand out as a standard, but it seems like .562 would be a good size. I thought the general rule of thumb was if using .010 cotton patching, then one needs to back off on the OAL size exactly that much on the RB. Are most using .005 cotton patching and using .570 balls? Or does it make that much difference, just use the proper patch for the ball being used. Still on a learning curve, but want to do it halfway right. TIA

March 20, 2008, 02:16 PM	#11
sundance44s Senior Member Join Date: February 6, 2006 Location: Hernando , Ms. Posts: 579	Okiefarmer ...ya beat me to the draw pard ...Nice buy ..I had watched this rifle fail to sell twice ...the price finally got where I decided to buy it and ..it`s gone ..you got it ...LOL ..I`ll find another ..I hear they are good shooters ..also called the Mississippi rifle . Stock is a little rough , but a good hand at sanding and staining ..wouldn`t have any problem with it .

March 20, 2008, 03:16 PM	#12
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,188	The Mississippi and Zouave are different rifles.

March 20, 2008, 04:19 PM	#13
sundance44s Senior Member Join Date: February 6, 2006 Location: Hernando , Ms. Posts: 579	I didn`t know that Hawg ...they sure look alike ..Who made the Mississippi Rifle ? ..does anyone make a repro ?

March 20, 2008, 04:39 PM	#14
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,188	They were U.S. 1841 contract rifles made by a variety of makers. Tryon, Robbins & Lawrence, Whitney, Remington, etc. They bear a resemblance but the butt, patchbox, nosepiece are all different. Originals were made in .54 but 8,879 were rebored to 58 during the War Against Northern Aggression. Repros abound.

March 20, 2008, 04:46 PM	#15
sundance44s Senior Member Join Date: February 6, 2006 Location: Hernando , Ms. Posts: 579	Thanks Hawg ..I just found a repro here ..patch box sure looks the same ...well shaped the same ..bigger on the Mississippi rifle http://www.blockaderunner.com/Catalog/catpg1.htm

March 20, 2008, 05:40 PM	#16
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,188	Here's an original Zouave. http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...?Item=95274159 And an original Mississippi. http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...?Item=94897782

March 20, 2008, 08:36 PM	#17
eastbank Senior Member Join Date: February 7, 2008 Location: pa. Posts: 2,450	i shoot a navy zouave .58. the best bullet for mine has been the lyman .575213 hollow base mini cast with pure lead, and 65gr. 3f dupont black powder. fill the hollow base of the mini with crisco and shoot away, with good sights and a trigger job my rifle will do 2-3 inch groups at 100yds. eastbank.